“Bob we are a lost cause…even if we win the next match, that would only only be due to a spark of brilliance or may be due to some extremly bad performance by aussies…but the fact of matter is that we are on a decline for last 12 years…first, we used to have zaheer abass, miandad, majid khan and hanif muhammad, then we declined and the next lot was saleem malik, ijaz ahmed, amer sohail, shoaib muhammaed and saeed anwar and look at this lot now…absloutly pathetic…what is all this telling us…that the system is crumbling… we have no good players…Against aussies, we scored less than 100 fourth time in last 8 test matches…even BD is better than that…we need to change the first class infrastructure,…we need better pitches,…we need mental training of players…”
Today I found imran khan’s interview at cricinfo in which he talked along the same lines.Actually he is talking about it for 25 year but no one listens to him. FOR HOW LONG shall we hide the real problem behind the curtains of blame-displacement. I agree that players like zaheer abass, miandad, majid were also produced by Pakistan First Class System, but all of them used to play county cricket on regular basis. That is why they were excellent players. But lately, none of our players are good enuf to play county cricket on regular basis. The result is obvious. No one and I again repeat No One (Woolmers, Miandads, Pybusss no one) can improve Pakistan team’s performance outside the subcontinent until and unless we change the basics of our cricketing system. In addition, our players play cricket in Pakistan between departments without an element of competitiveness. Therefore, they are very weak mentally. Mind you, India facs the same problem. One of the reasons, they performed better last time in Australia was because shane warne, Mcgrath and Kaspo, all were injured. When these bowlers were fit, Indians could not handle them even on their own backyard.
On the topic of county cricket, the thing is that our national team's iterinary is so full now a days (pretty much all test team's actually) that there is just not enough time to play county cricket for all season. And if one of our good player's opts to play county instead of national cricket, then all hell breaks loose and he is called lalchi and what not, plus cricket board censures them as well. Back in 70's, players could play both county and national cricket without having to choose. Not any more.
Regulations in county cricket limit their number of foreign cricketers, and as a result our new and upcoming players don't get a chance to play there. The established players can't play due to time commitment, time conflicts. And the only ones who play are those who are dumped from our national team and are in the twilight of their careers and decide to make some quick money before saying good bye to cricket.
So, now Pakistan will have to look beyond county to groom new cricketers. The best hope is to raise our own first class cricket level to a point where it does not lag so far behind the international cricket. Better pitches, better coaching and professional attitude... thats whats required.
Re: India's performance in Australia.. well, its hypothetical now to speculate on whether injuries to Aus bowlers is the real reason Indians did better. Hand-to-heart, its a fact, India's batting is much more reliable than Pakistan's. I know our fans don't like to hear such things, but thats just the way it is. Plus, Pakistan's current tour has just started. We should wait and see, before doing the post-mortem. Its way too early, right now.
Bob Wollmer's comment about Pakistani team needs Pyshcological evaluation is embaressing for a coach. Pakistani team is not brand new, it is just a matter of getting used to the pitch and score some good scores. I think Bob wollmer is done with Pakistani team...He hasn't delivered any sucessful series victory and he is blaming players for poor performance.
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
On the topic of county cricket, the thing is that our national team's iterinary is so full now a days (pretty much all test team's actually) that there is just not enough time to play county cricket for all season. And if one of our good player's opts to play county instead of national cricket, then all hell breaks loose and he is called lalchi and what not, plus cricket board censures them as well. Back in 70's, players could play both county and national cricket without having to choose. Not any more.
Regulations in county cricket limit their number of foreign cricketers, and as a result our new and upcoming players don't get a chance to play there. The established players can't play due to time commitment, time conflicts. And the only ones who play are those who are dumped from our national team and are in the twilight of their careers and decide to make some quick money before saying good bye to cricket.
So, now Pakistan will have to look beyond county to groom new cricketers. The best hope is to raise our own first class cricket level to a point where it does not lag so far behind the international cricket. Better pitches, better coaching and professional attitude... thats whats required.
Re: India's performance in Australia.. well, its hypothetical now to speculate on whether injuries to Aus bowlers is the real reason Indians did better. Hand-to-heart, its a fact, India's batting is much more reliable than Pakistan's. I know our fans don't like to hear such things, but thats just the way it is. Plus, Pakistan's current tour has just started. We should wait and see, before doing the post-mortem. Its way too early, right now.
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I agree with almost every thing that you said in your post except the last two lines. Yes, Pakistan tour has just started and one may argue the need of a post-mortem right now. But I am not submitting the post mortem based on Pakistan’s performance in the last innings of the latest test match against aussies. The point I am trying to make that when an international team fails to score above 100 then there is something wrong with that team but it happens. But when an international team fails to score above 100 on four different occasions in last couple of years then there is something terribly wrong with that team and it needs a serious introspection by the relevant authorities. . And I don’t even care if Pakistan team scores 500 against Aussies in Sydney, which happens to be a slow pitch. It is not about showing sparks of brilliance here and there and then keep jumping with joy all over. It is about consistency. It is about addressing the root cause of the problem. The point is why Pakistan batsmen fail to put a decent score consistently outside the subcontinent. And we have sidelined this problem for too long. Wasim and Waqar used to produce the face-saving magical spells consistently but now with the current lot of mediocre bowlers, we are in a serious trouble.
True. Though I am not inclined to hit the panic button just yet. Even in the days of Majid, Zaheer and Asif Iqbal, Pakistan was prone to suddenly fold (plus the politics of that era really really sucked - what with player revolution against Miandad etc). Though, with so many years gone by, they seem like golden years. Thats just the nature of the game.
Australians have made cricket into a science form. Talent is just one part of the puzzle (not even the biggest factor). Professional training, strength of mind and physical fitness is what sets them apart. No other team even comes close. And Pakistan were always the worst of the lot when it comes to consistency (even in Imran's era) so we should not expect a transformation just yet. Though, a tour to Australia is hardly the best yard stick to measure a team, in the first place. Its likely to be their worst outing anyway.
As long as we have a good coach (and I still have confidence in Woolmer) and a nucleus of team around which we can build, we'd be ok in the long run. A drastic surgery at this stage is counter-productive. We don't have any backup, anyway.
Pheonixdesi,, I agree with you completely. That is the heart of the problem. There is a glaring problem with the Pakistani domestic system. No wonder bowlers like Iftikar Rao and even Mo Khalil come out of domestic cricket with great stats and are painfully mediocre at the international stage. The fact of the matter is even a hint of swing causes our batsmen to collapse. Now we see that they are also vulnerable to bounce.
Forget this series, in the last little while some very ordinary bowlers have made our batsmen look bad. These guys include L Balaji and Tinashe Panyangara if Zimbabwe.
I think Pakistan has always relied in individual brilliance, Inzimam is a perfect example. We really struggle now because these talents dont come along every day. The individually brilliant batsmen to come along in the last 10 yrs we have wasted (Basit Ali, Imran Nazir,,,,,). The fact of the matter is we dont have a system to produce solid batsmen.
Thats something i dont understand. How can our batsmen fail against swing when we have/had the greatest swing bowlers of all time. As far as bounce is concerned, we all remember how much a tape/tennis ball used to bounce when we played in streets. These players come from the same streets and have somehow forgotten to handle bounce.
I remember when pakistan toured aus under imran, he made our batsmen play against wet tennis bowls just to make them used to it.
Someone should ask razzaq and khan what were they thinking just before playing those rash shots. I mean our team wasnt playing a oneday game for them to be worried about the scoring rate.
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*Originally posted by lunaticCalm: *
Thats something i dont understand. How can our batsmen fail against swing when we have/had the greatest swing bowlers of all time. As far as bounce is concerned, we all remember how much a tape/tennis ball used to bounce when we played in streets. These players come from the same streets and have somehow forgotten to handle bounce.
I remember when pakistan toured aus under imran, he made our batsmen play against wet tennis bowls just to make them used to it.
Someone should ask razzaq and khan what were they thinking just before playing those rash shots. I mean our team wasnt playing a oneday game for them to be worried about the scoring rate.
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may be we can play swing if there is no bounce (sri lanka) or may be we can play bounce if there is no swing but when there is a combination of bounce and swing like in perth or south africa, we can not even score 100 runs.......there you go my man.......
OK..So theres some ppl who say we should blame the coach, some say we should blame the selectors, some say we should blame the captain and some say we should blame the players...is there any one point we agree on? like it would b interesting to find out wot u guys think is the REAL and most RATIONAL reason that pakistan suffered this humiliating loss?
There's no "REAL" reason. Everybody has his/her own idea about the loss, so everybody would like to think of that reason as THE reason.
I beleive there are lots of factors in that loss. Inexperience of the young ones of the pitch bounce and movement. Lack of application from seniors. Lack of bowling penetration. bla bla.
I know why we lost and why we lose. Simple "Talent kee kami hey mulk mein". specially batting talent kee. Players like Imran, Miandad, Zaheer, Wasim or Waqar were not created by coaches. Now, we lack true talent, a talent that would shine by defying all odds. A talent that would hang in there, when needed. A talent, who will take a not-so-good situation, as an opportunity to prove his worth to the world. You have to improve fast and correct your mistakes. But we have an exact opposite tradition. Our players have spend their whole careers without fixing their technical mistakes. Like Saeed Anwer, his problem with outswinging deliviries, remained the problem for him till his last match. Afridi, still hits the ball like a mad man, just like his fist match. Ijaz never fixed his problems and remained erractic throughout. This new breed saw their seniors, living with their deficencies, so what can you expect. They should ve been watching Steve Waugh, Lara, Dravid, D'Silva or Tendulker instead.
Inzi is a good batsman but replace him as a captain. He has no vision, no shrewdness, no leadership quality. Because of him the whole team is laidback and relax now.
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*Originally posted by yeahwhatever: *
Inzi is a good batsman but replace him as a captain. He has no vision, no shrewdness, no leadership quality. Because of him the whole team is laidback and relax now.
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i agree and the only person i believe who has the ability to be a captain is younis khan ..........
i agree and the only person i believe who has the ability to be a captain is younis khan ..........
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What in God's name can you possibly see in Younis Khan that makes him fit to be a captain. That guy can hardly keep his place in the team...hes pathetically inconsistent and as technically sound as ejaz ahmed...plus do u really think ppl like shoaib akhtar n all r gona respect him?
