The Road to Apostasy ?

Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

Dear Brethren.

[H2]Firstly religion is based upon scripture and not on anyone’s opinions or desires [/H2]

** Mankind must not subject God’s word to our opinions.** It is a mistake to have a group of people look at a Scripture and offer varying opinions on what it means as though God’s word means only what it means to us at that time of reading based on the mindset of the reader and that we can contradict each other and that’s fine.

Instead, we should ask ourselves "what does a text say as revealed based on context and understanding by its earliest followers and most of all by the chosen Prophet , it was revealed . " We should work hard at trying to discover the best single possible meaning to the text is – if that is applicable based on the context and timeframe of its revealing and how the Prophet and his disciples understood them . ** We should not view God’s word as a well from which we draw whatever feeling, sensation, or opinion that suits us for the time. Which is what the ignorant will end up doing **

Instead, we must do our best to find out what the word actually says as and when it was revealed based on the context for its revelation and its general meanings to the best of our ability ** instead of “feeling” our way through the scriptures using relativism as a guide. **

Otherwise, we would be saying that God actually mean nothing specific when He revealed such words to mankind . If we were to say that God’s word can mean different things, then the word of God doesn’t mean anything at all, does it?

The danger in this is that if taken to its logical extreme, verses could mean anything we wanted them to mean. ** With no absolutes to draw from, apostasy would begin to creep in.** This, of course, leads down the road of apostasy and needs to be stopped.

So I ask you. When you study God’s word devotionally, or otherwise, do you hope to find what it actually means so you can subject yourself to what it says, or do you try and find a meaning for Scripture that suits your needs, your feelings, and your desires?

The knowledge imparted for mankind by Allah (swt) was:

6:68 ** When thou seest men engaged in vain discourse about Our Signs turn away from them unless they turn to a different theme. ** If Satan ever makes thee forget then ** after recollection sit not thou in the company of the ungodly. **

69 On their account no responsibility falls on the righteous ** but (their duty) is to remind them that they may (learn to) fear Allah. **

70 ** Leave alone those who take their religion to be mere play ** and amusement and are deceived by the life of this world. ** But proclaim (to them) this (truth): that every soul delivers itself to ruin by its own acts: ** it will find for itself no protector or intercessor except Allah: if it offered every ransom (or reparation) none will be accepted: ** such is (the end of) those who deliver themselves to ruin by their own acts:** they will have for drink (only) boiling water and for punishment one most grievous: for they persisted in rejecting Allah

Ibrahim says: Nothing can be more Clearer! Muslims are advised to move away from those who preach falsehoods and NOT TO SIT WITH THEM or LISTEN TO THEIR FOLLIES, ( meaning when we are physically present but in this medium, one does not know who these deviants are nor see the other that makes the post and being a forum specifically set up for discussion based on the theme, avoidance is not the way )

** Hence the Fitnah created in this medium by some of the posters who wish to rebel, defy, deny, innovate, denigrate Islam and Muslims needs a different approach in addition to Proclaiming the TRUTH as conveyed in the above ayah.** more Muslims on this forum need to participate and refute ( not argue or debate or slander as if it was a contest since some posters are here just to denigrate your faith)

At the same time, Leaving these misguided souls to spew their filth on the net amounts to allowing the poisoning the well or hoping for one knowledgeable person or the other to respond to them only is unwise. Since we all have our limits of time, money and energy to participate.

But honestly it is getting disgusting to read some of the child play that is taking place in a “religion Forum” which is meant for addressing religious concerns.

I wonder If Gupshup will consider creating another religion Forum for “Islam” only where Non Muslims and deviants will be encouraged to post in the religion section ( the current forum) since in the current framework religion includes all faiths and thus we have a scenario where poison is getting mixed with the drinking water and apostasy will be the end result of allowing all this without FIRM resolve in stopping it at its root.

Best regards
Ibrahim

[H2] To live in the present is wisdom . To live for the Present is Folly. [/H2]

Ibrahim Bhai! :) I was wondering where you were! Glad you are back, you have been missing all the fun! Welcome.

And I knew I could count on you to use the new version's colorfulness to your ease!

If discussing religion openly and freely is a reason for one to renunciate his faith, his faith wasn't that strong to begin with. One shouldn't be afraid to discuss religion and spirituality based on others' *perceived * realities.

Religion is "a personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship." Some want to take away the personal and make it all institutionalized.

Perhaps a second religion forum is needed. Where one can discuss religion on a personal level among Muslims, Hindus, Christians, agnostics, atheists, whoever.

The other can be for narrow-minded, institutionalized discussions where one can go to hear only one view. That way they wouldn't have to be exposed to the deviants and "misguided souls" and everyone else wouldn't have to listen to lectourous, self-righteous sermons from self-annointed holy men.

salaam to all,

BTW who is going to decide whether someone is a deviant or "true muslim"???

i thought that only GOD can decide on this question??but it seems that some people on this forum have decided to take this question in their owm hands!!

Mr. Ibrahim,

your post exuberates all the insecurities of today's 'mainstream Islam'...... plus an ugly abuse of the color option.

The issue is not only this site because there are now many many sites across many different muslim countries. The internet technology has changed (and will change even more as broadband becomes popular) the discourse on many a subjects including religion. The old techniques of keeping discipline (i.e. the implied threat of the use of the laws of apostacy and blasphemy for muslims and an impassioned reaction against non-muslims) does not work for this medium. It was possible to drive Rushdie into hiding under police protection, but it is not even possible to know unambiguously who is behind the many anti-islamic sites that have sprung up across the net.
However, the point made is important and that perhaps the Religion forum ought to be split up where one part can be for the free wide rangeing "philosphical discussions" that the secularists and non-muslims can vent their feelings. The other can be kept for questions about madhab, aqeeda, etc. from muslims to the islamic scholars on this site. That should be fairly easy to enforce for the moderators. My personal bet is that given the nature of the medium the controversial section will attract most of the contributors and viewers while the other one will reach saturation fairly quickly.

Top Idea.

A faith forum, and a spirited debate on religion forum as two seperate entities.

I'd support that. :)