The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

The Reference against the CJ was filed by the President; he has a right to do so, it was a legal act.

The CJ is accountable, he was simply being held accountable.

The CJ’s lawyers strangled the reference through technicalities, which the govt officials in the legal ministry should have paid competent attention to.

The eventual judgement by the full open court was apparently under no pressure from the govt, the president or the ‘dictatorship’. Yet, was it also as pressure free from the political mass movement and the lawyers’ as well as certain sections of the public’s alleged sentiments?

Did the judgement, a short text of which has been made public and a detailed version is awaited, shed light and take into account the following?

Had the govt taken the right course of action, the correct procedures, would the hearing and judgement and the CJ’s defense lawyers’ arguments and the entire political campaigning have been different?

The Judgment issued on 20 Jul seems like a judgement only on the incorrect procedures by the Govt/President while the content of the reference; the serious allegations, has been simply set aside. Why? We may find out in the complete judgement perhaps?

That leaves us doubting the very verdict and its intent in not taking into account the basis of the entire fuss and rushing to conclude the entire case was mala fide. However, shouldn’t the SC, as the supreme legal authority, have taken a little more professional and strict look at the content of the reference and it’s basis as well as the gravity of such allegations against the CJ and regardless of political or sentimental pressure, shouldn’t there have been more concern and interest shown by the supreme legal authority to make sure how true/untrue the allegations were, and whether the CJ was guilty of the charges or innocent? There may be some mention in the detailed ruling, but I don’t think it would contain any significant points; had there been any worthwhile explanation it would have been included in the short order to clarify concern.

*If it is indeed true that the Bench ruling rushed up towards mala fide intent to dispose off the entire case, politically we wonder if the comments made atleast twice by Justice Ramday asking Sharifuddin Pirzada to suggest a solution ended up in this compromising solution…? *

*Legally we wonder what precedent did the SC set for all future cases; from mere theft to massacres!? That is if the mere procedure of brining into notice of legal authorities or accountability is wrong, any offender of the law no matter how big, small, insignificant, influential or powerful, can escape free from right under the nose of not just the local ‘thana’ but even the Supreme Court!?

If it is not so and there is infact more light and detail shed on these concerns in the detailed ruling, will it contain recommendations for the govt/president to follow up with re-filing in due and legal course?

Again, if not so, Why!? Why does the SC chose to look the other way when there are fingers being pointed towards wrong-doings of a high official representing the legal system of Pakistan apparently with proof backing up? Isn’t the SC bound to make sure and investigate and punish according to law if found guilty of misconduct?

What were the arguments presented by Justices Faqir Muhammad Khokhar, M. Javed Buttar and Saiyed Saeed Ashhad?

Technically, this hearing was merely whether such a case can be heard by the SJC and whether a CJ can be held dysfunctional. It was not supposed to ‘set aside’ the entire reference.

Fine if CJ cant be sent on leave or held dysfunctional, fine if SJC cant hear such a case, but with all that said and done, why doesnt the SC proceed towards the next obvious hearing; the actual reference, with the full bench in open court with the CJ functional!? And even if the govt/Presidnet refuse to pursue, where are the Suo Moto actions?

With unconvincing answers, the entire hue & cry for independence of judiciary, supremacy of the constitution and law & order, as well as the gold plated image of the legal profession, which has its equal share of wrongdoers, and also the intentions and agendas of the lawyers, judges and politicians become apparent and appear a hoax, and nothing but empty selfish slogans with no sincerity, and no similarity in words and actions.

*Text of the SC Short Order

President’s power to file reference

ACCOUNTABILITY OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF PAKISTAN

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

Technicalities? Haris did you even read the damn judgment?

The judgment clearly says that the President's actions of sidelining the CJ, appointing Justice Javed Iqbal and even convening the SJC were all ILLEGAL.

This is not about technicalities. The entire reference, including some scandalous allegations were thrown out earlier because they were so clearly full of lies, with no documentation and compiled based on cooked up "intelligence reports". The govt lawyer actually apologised to the Supreme Court for presenting the affidavits.

Get real man. The whole reference was bogus and made up by the intelligence agencies in haste without thinking through. They thought they could intimidate the CJ into resigning but Sher da puttar stood up to them. They had no plan B and it showed.

Musharraf should apologise to the nation for putting it through an unnecessary crisis and loss of lives and property. The reference was fake and he knew it going in.

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

Only people who cannot read plain English or who are lying can claim that this is a technicality. We still have something called the constitution of Pakistan and the Supreme Court has said that what Musharraf did violated the constitution. I hope Musharraf lotas get this simple concept in their heads.:grumpy:

Supreme Court

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

waisay legal rulings are not usually written in 'plain' english :)

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

Waisay the bolded portions are plain for those who are not Musharraf lotas :)

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

Waisay .. aab tou BB and NS ko Pakistan kee ticket kata layna chahiya na? :) Judiciary is now independent and strong, so when they are going back? ;)

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

I really commend the President for not acting like a baby, as CJ has plainly done, in response to this judgement by the courts.

:)

Seriously, if Mrs. President passes away, I'm first in line to marry that guy.

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

:)

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

JaanBaaz, Sir!

Did you read my damn post with patience at all!?

I'm sure it was in much more plain English than the SC Short Order. Which by the way I had read over and over, and had also posted a link to it hoping such obvious assumptions wouldn't be made!
Still thanks for sharing another link to the text.

And, as limited as my knowledge of plain or complicated English may be compared to yours, whatever I gather from the text still does not answer what I want to know. Neither does this post of yours, which merely tells me, yet again, about the procedural issues with the refernce and that includes the ACJ, SJC, Forced Leave, Dysfunctionalism etc AND NOT the CONTENT and GRAVITY of such a Presidential reference and its fate after once coming into the notice of the Supreme Legal Authority, regardless of any procedural errors!
It may be simple for you or other CJ lovers or Musharraf haters to say,

But how does that translate into LEGAL, JUDICIAL, CONSTITUTIONAL, MORAL, ETHICAL, RESPONSIBLE language and functioning of the Supreme Court, the Hon Justices, the 13 member Bench, the legal profession, and ultimately the verdict by the Full Open Court...!?

Such was my plain question in plain English, which inspite of a lot of plain and un-plain talk here and elsewhere, plainly remains unanswered.

Will the SC answer it for the plain Pakistanis...?

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

LOL, that say's all we need to know about you

No wonder your posts rarely make sense

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

So when's the Detailed Ruling coming out...?

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

u mean benazir or fazl? :confused:

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

Where is it?
Anywhere to be heard of or seen yet...?

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

5 weeks and not a sign of it. Maybe the accused CJ is writing it himself?

How dare the judges try to hold others accountable when they think they are above the law? They are superior hypocrites it seems, especially when you see their lawyer supporters physically beating up their opponents. No suo moto notices against the lawyer thugs.

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

Don't make assumptions, be patient, may be you should ask "media" to push this question to Supreme Court.

[quote]
How dare the judges try to hold others accountable when they think they are above the law? They are superior hypocrites it seems, especially when you see their lawyer supporters physically beating up their opponents. No suo moto notices against the lawyer thugs.
[/quote]

Army is very very accountable I hear.

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

Not here yet. Haris bhai, they will release it sooner or later but strictly speaking, even a verbal order from higher judiciary has the force of a written judicial order.

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

define clearly which guy, you have left a door open for maneuvering later on :)

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

only in pakistan. and then we have people like fraudia bhai advocating strategies and plans for political parties. :faizy:

as crude as that remark, unfortunately, it does allow one to peep inside the polarized mind of a pakistani.

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

:rotfl: I am not sure Mush is strong enough for any panj sala mansuba’s anymore.

go figure :stuck_out_tongue:

Re: The Reference & The Judgement; Unanswered Questions

^ nahee nahee bataoo na :hehe: