The Real Story Behind Islamabad Marriott Hotel Attack

Re: The Real Story Behind Islamabad Marriott Hotel Attack

Whose war? America’s or ours?

Whose war? America’s or ours?
Islamabad diary

Friday, September 26, 2008
by Ayaz Amir

Was there such an animal as the Tehrik Taliban-I-Pakistan before the American invasion of Afghanistan? The Americans sparked turmoil and chaos in this region and now that they are bogged down in Afghanistan, how come this adventure they thoughtlessly started becomes our war?

Yet from President Asif Zardari downwards—Zardari more of America’s man than even Pervez Musharraf—our leadership is working overtime to convince a fed-up nation, which has lapped up more than its share of lies, that this is our war too and we are under a moral obligation to fight it.

Pakistan’s English-speaking classes—‘liberals’ for want of a better word—chant, nay roar, much the same slogan. Very clear in their minds about Taliban-spread terror they sputter and choke when it comes to American-spread terror. The Marriott bombing has brought terrorism home to mainstream Pakistan but slaughter on a far greater scale has occurred regularly in the tribal areas without having the same impact because those are remote areas not accessible to TV cameras.

Should terrorism be fought? Of course it should. Only question is whether it can be successfully fought by a nation perceived as having lost all self-respect and doing not what is in its best interests but in the interests of the United States. Constant American lectures about ‘doing more’, especially when our own people are dying every day, and monthly handouts—80-100 million dollars—for services rendered is almost guaranteed to ensure that the entire argument about this soc-called war on terror gets distorted and the Pakhtoon population which is in the centre of this conflict turns irredeemably hostile.

The way the Americans have gone about this business, carrying out unilateral strikes on the basis of doubtful intelligence and causing innocent deaths, and the way they have pressurised the army to conduct military operations in that area, they’ve been instrumental in destroying the old tribal-cum-administrative structure which stood Pakistan, and before us the British, in good stead for a hundred and fifty years. Now after helping create this chaos they are expecting the battered state of Pakistan to bestir itself from the ashes and perform miracles.

When will our military geniuses understand that far from enabling us to wage any kind of war, the American alliance—with the baggage of opprobrium that it brings—dooms us to eventual failure in the conflict now raging in the tribal areas? The Americans got it wrong, and disastrously so, in Iraq. The resurgence of the Taliban shows they got it wrong in Afghanistan. What makes us so sure they’ve got it right about our tribal areas?

Talibanism, let us remember, more than a physical phenomenon is a state of mind. President Bush is a Christian Taliban. So is the rest of the neo-conservative church whose vicars and priests hollered for the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq. The strike on the Twin Towers was just an excuse. Dreaming dreams of eternal dominance what they really wanted was to redraw the map of the Middle East. Who’ll ever accuse Dick Cheney of having an open mind? These failed crusaders are seen as unmitigated disasters in their own land. But their word continues to be taken on trust in this strange, and so easily-bamboozled, republic of Pakistan. If there was a medal for being the world’s foremost suckers we’d win it.

So what should we do? Loosen America’s clammy embrace. Which doesn’t mean we go picking quarrels with it or indulging in chest-thumping and empty rhetoric. But we can unravel some of the strings that needlessly tie us to the United States.

Why is the military so hung up on expensive weaponry—F-16s and the like—when the entire concept of the threat we face has changed? Let us learn to live within our means and let the army, with its conviction that it has a monopoly on patriotism, show the rest of the nation the way. For what reason out of Clausewitz or Sun Tzu do we need that white elephant of a new General Headquarters in Islamabad? Will the army start producing better warriors as a result? Why is the military so sold on training courses for officers in US war academies? Can we name one officer who has done well out of such courses? Far better to learn from China or even Vietnam and Cuba.

Our elite classes are bent to American ways not so much physically as in their minds. A colonisation of the mind, that’s what it is, more nefarious in its effects than physical occupation. Musharraf may have been a much feted figure abroad but he was reviled at home. Why? Because the Pakistani masses were convinced he was sold out to the Americans. Zardari and company are not only following Musharraf’s policies but bringing to them a renewed vigour. What makes them think that where Musharraf was detested they will be applauded?

Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairman US Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Gen Petraeus, the new Centcom commander, shouldn’t be touching down in Islamabad whenever they feel like it. If there is a problem in FATA we should look to it in our own way. But we must put our house in order. The charges hurled at us of the ISI being double-faced should be honestly investigated. The ISI should have no room for operatives pursuing lone ranger agendas. The days of ‘jihad’ as conceived by General Ziaul Haq and General Akhtar Abdul Rehman are over. Time we moved on and exorcised those ghosts. What the US is trying to do is push us into another ‘jihad’. This is a kindness best avoided.

In small things there is no one to beat our cunningness. To larger issues we bring concentrated stupidity. Why must we think only in extremes? Why must we think that if we are not bootlickers of America we must necessarily be its enemy? The real world doesn’t operate like this. Most things are not in black and white. There are shades of grey in between and a middle path between extremes. If we learn to respect ourselves a little better, others, including the US, will also respect us a bit more. Whoever takes a doormat seriously? That’s what we are in American eyes.

Take Kashmir. Who says we should go to war with India over Kashmir? But should that mean that we go to the other extreme and jettison our principled stand on Kashmir as Musharraf repeatedly did and as Zardari has shown every intention of doing? The longest passage in Zardari’s address to parliament was devoted to India. Why? This at a time when the people of Kashmir are agitating once more against Indian rule. If we can’t do anything for the Kashmiris—and I am not saying send fighters there which is the wrong approach—why should we invite the charge that we are stabbing them in the back?

Our problem is not money and economic assistance but the ability to use it. US assistance, and we’ve received plenty of it over the years, should have made us strong. Instead it has only created a dependency syndrome, making parasites of the Pakistani elite. Pakistan received billions of US dollars during the Zia years. Where did that money go? The sizeable sums in aid and assistance received since 2001, to what productive uses were they put? We are hobbling on American crutches but they won’t allow us to walk unless we learn to do without them.

But we’ll have to do something, and pretty quickly, about our leadership problem. Consider in this context Zardari’s performance when he met President Bush in New York. After Bush’s opening remarks, Zardari said: “As always you prove to the world that your heart is in there for us Pakistanis.” This is embarrassing stuff but wait for the next bit: “We respect your feelings, we respect the American ideals. And we bring to this the whole concept of your promise to the world of bringing democracy to Pakistan.”

So Bush promised the world—when did he do this?—that democracy would be brought to Pakistan. President Zardari should choose a good speech writer and keep him close by his side at all times.

**If this is true **than don't forget that india is suffering for long from islamic extremists who are supported and funded by Taliban openly (and may be others, which is disputed in this forum). Remember Bin Laden said in one of his video tap that US and India are his enemy. (and i dont think india is enemy of 'Islam' and great mughals made India as their home and we still live in peace)

So what's wrong in maintaining our base in Afganistan to provide intellegance support to Afgan government? India had long historical link with Afgan, Iran and Iraq (long before pakistan formed, all these areas were part of silk route and important trade areas for Europe)

India never supported US war on Iraq, but supported war on Taliban.

Sorry to disappoint you but we are not obsessed at all. :sunnyboy: aaja sutta marte hain

Says an Indian on a Pakistani forum :hehe:

Being on pakistani forum doesnt mean that I am obsessed.what sort of logic is that?

Re: The Real Story Behind Islamabad Marriott Hotel Attack

^ bohot dekhay hayn ;)

Main to roj hi dekhta hoon..i got 20/20 vision.:)

Yeah sure chintu, Indians are not obssessed and I am Shri Bill Clintons pitha ji…

P.S: if it was not Ramdaan I would settle for red wine.. Sutta is bad for health. :slight_smile:

why would indians be obsessed with pakistan? Please give me few reasons ...

naa i dont like alcohol (not because it is bad..just dont like the taste).. chalo u drink wine and i will smoke weed:).

Well did I not said the same, Indians are not obsessed with bad Pakis! Huh..
Here is an excerpt from Ramtanu Maitra Indias one-eyed policy by Asia Times.

*India's entire foreign policy appears to be more tightly wrapped around Pakistan than ever *

P.S: Smoking is bad for health :)

Things are getting more interesting,

As per your statement Taliban is against Pakistan b-coz we have turned our back to them... and have provided US with logistic support to topple their govt.

Now US is accusing Pakistan for supporting Taliban, hence they are launching air and ground raids in Pakistan. US officials on many occasions have said that Pakistan is not doing enough, the puppet of US, Karzai is directly accusing Pakistan for sponsoring terrorism in Afghanistan.. if all these allegations are true, then Pakistan is actually helping Taliban, why Taliban are attacking such Country which is their Sugar Daddy?

Have you ever been to FATA area, On the map, it seems to be smaller then the city of Karachi or Lahore, It is not possible that the leadership of Al-Qaida or any terrorist organization or an army fighting and giving tough time to US and NATO forces will come and seek shelter in this area which is currently in the spot light... or do you think they are stupid enough to stay here???

The Drug Money, there are two things to be noticed on this issue:

1) With the heavy presence of the Security Agencies in the area, how come drug dealers are still trading/operating and making billions to fund/"donate" these terrorists?

2) On the other side of the border, Us and NATO forces are stationed, how drug dealers are operative there?

Yes the area has been a safe haven for drug trafickers, but it was at the time when there was no security personal exsited in the area, now almost 100,000 service men are stationed on Pakistan side and they are on the move, hunting for the terrorist, do you think they are fool to let go these drug lords to operate freely to fund the very same terrorists they are hunting?

Adding to your points, is it not OBL's son who is wandering in Sahara Dessert for world peace? if yes, y don't FBI, CIA or Homeland Security is arresting him to put pressure on OBL, after all he is not the son of any ordinary criminal, his father has declared war against US?

Any one any IDEA?

The case is, US have arrested childrens of Afia Siddique for terrorist activities and iam sure of many other cases as well... so why this guy is free to move and use his money?

There are two kind of extremists in this war

1) ofcourse Taliban 2) the guys like your mind set.

Anyone who is not in favor of US attacking and killing innocents in Pakistan is not necessarily favoring Taliban!!! and US forces are not Guided by Saint that they cannot make mistakes, infact this whole war was a mistake, in lst eight years US have killed more than 15 million Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, still the terrorism is not controlled, still the US's so called war on terror in not any where near to victory!!!? Why Taliban or other ANTI-US forces are getting stronger day by day.

Its been 8 years, these organization which have zero technology, have not gone to Strategic Institutes, is growing stronger every day!!! and US, worlds only super power is losing on both military and economic grounds!!!

There is something else going on!!! I am not saying taliban are on the right side but niether are American, Taliban are killing innocents i totally agree,but so are the Americans, infact Americans are way ahead in the number games.

So i am unable to differentiate in Taliban and Us-Forces, both are there for last eight years, both have brought death to innocents, both are opening new fronts, which means more innocent lives will be lost...

The solution for the whole mess is, Americans should go back to their home land, and iam sure, Pakistani forces can clear their side of the borders in no time. Let Afghan Govt, clean the mess...

You tell us!!!

Half of your movies are there posing us as a threat to India!!!

every politcian, security agency, blames every thing on Pakistan (as this is the only job they are good at)

you tell us why they obsessed with a country which ( in size) is no match for them???

so is russia with georgia, america with cuba and china with taiwan...

size doesnt matter in international polity....

So u agree that India is obsessed with Pakistan!!!

Can you provide any reference for this 15 million dead number?

Excellent, thanks, I’ve been looking for this news for sometime. I knew Pakistan had proposed this soon after coalition forces had stepped up their “efforts” to hunt Taliban/AlQ but Karzai started crying. I think we need to stop caring about others to save ourselves (esp the ones shedding dog/crocodile tears), we need fencing and mining now!

It was 1.5 Million…

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

hope this will help!!!

A huge difference between 15 million and 1.5 million. Even from your Wikipedia source, the highest estimate is actually 1.03 million by ORB. Even that is based on a survey of a relatively small number of households in Iraq. The actual reported death numbers is 80 to 87 thousand by Iraq Body Count. The UN estimate is 34 thousand.

Bottom line is when doing propaganda you pulled a number out of somewhere which was totally unrealistic. The total population of Iraq is less than 30 million. If 15 million would die there then there would not be a single un-injured person left in the country.

IMO, the real number is probably close to the Iraq Body Count number, which is a very high number of people dead but not even in the ball park of 15 million.

The other point to note is that these figures include all deaths (both military and civillian) as a result of actions of all sides (actions by both coalition and insurgents) so blaming only US for civillian death when Sunnis anand Shias have been killing each other freely does not seem quite right.

"
Here are the yearly IBC civilian death totals[13]](Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia) (as retrieved on Sept. 23, 2007):
YearDatesCivilian deaths11 May 03 - 19 Mar 046332 (not counting 7400 invasion deaths through May 1, 2003)220 Mar 04 - 19 Mar 0511,312320 Mar 05 - 19 Mar 0614,910420 Mar 06 - 16 Mar 0726,540
Concerning the yearly totals IBC states: “All figures are taken from the “maximum” confirmed deaths in the IBC database. However, IBC’s rates and counts will rise over the coming months, as data is still being added to the IBC database for 2006 and other periods covered here.”[13]](Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia)
The IBC released a report detailing the deaths it recorded between March 2003 and March 2005[93]](Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia) in which it recorded 24,865 civilian deaths. The report says the US and its allies were responsible for the largest share (37%) of the 24,865 deaths. The remaining deaths were attributed to anti-occupations forces (9%), crime (36%) and unknown agents (11%). It also lists the primary sources used by the media: mortuaries, medics, Iraqi officials, eyewitnesses, police, relatives, US-Coalition, journalists, NGOs, friends/Associates, other."