Shias today have, in my opinion, forgotten the true message of Azadari. Imam Husayn’s message is universal, yet many of our non-Shia friends, including the majority of Sunnis do not understand and appreciate this message. In order to observe what Imam Husayn’s sacrifice for Islam and humanity one need not be a Shia. For example, Hindus and Sikhs in India commemorate Muharram and Ashura. The same needs to be done here in the West.
Finally Shias need to understand that the whole world sees them when they do Matam and Zanjeer ka matam, cutting on the forehead, even cutting of thier babies’ foreheads. These practices need to stop, or at least toned down. The Zanjeer ka matam makes us look extremely violent, and turns people away from us, which is not the goal of Azadari. The message of Imam Husayn needs to be portrayed in a more gentle manner so people all around the world can appreciate it.
Well said Salaman.....
Salmaan, I agree with you …thats the way it should be, there is no such thing like doing matam or so in Islam, …Imaam Hussain is Shaheed and one should not mourn on it, … anyways so many things which need to be corrected but, only when one feel to understand, in last 1425 years … they are beating themselves thinking doing very good thing, well…
Prophet Muhammad :saw: did not do it nor he told us to do…
Anyw way Allah in par reham farmay aur maaf karay …
my dear..kis baat per maafi maangi jaa rahi hai?
matam to hum inshallah martay dum tuk karengay
rahi baat zanjeer zani ..thats debatable..even our own scholers have different opinion over zanjeer zani..i know what salman is saying..it might give a wrong picture to the person who doesnt know anything about islam..plus its really hard for ppl to understand the whole concept of matam
Maulana Madhanee, it always bring tear to my eyes listening to your sermons. Ever thought about delivering them to ants instead? That might yield better results.
If grown people want to injure themselves in rememberance of a faith-based ritual, I think they should go right ahead and do it. Doesn't mean we have to agree, or that those people are even looking for our permission.
The only line I'd draw is to make sure kids do not injure themselves, atleast until they are adults and know what they are doing. I would hope most of us would atleast agree on that point.
Azadari and matam are part of shia faith. Repeatedly they have posted here why they believe it is ok for them to do it, and I don't think its appropriate for the rest of us to show disdain towards their faith or their rituals. If you don't like it, don't do it. Baat khatam.
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Suicide is something that Palestinians Sunnis do best, please don't bring that to Shi'ism.
I do Matam myself, so I have nothing against it. I just believe that zanjeer ka matam needs to be toned down a little, and Shias need to do more to spread the word and universality of Imam Husayn's message. I have many Christian friends who respect what Shias do in matam, and respect what Imam Husayn did for his religion. But they are troubled by the cutting and all of goriness that goes with the ritual.
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*Originally posted by Salman: *
I have many Christian friends who respect what Shias do in matam, and respect what Imam Husayn did for his religion. But they are troubled by the cutting and all of goriness that goes with the ritual.
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The christians should look at their own human cricifictions that take place in Phillipines & South America during Easter before they talk.
Loved the quote on the sunni suicide bombers.
What has now made Islam look violent is the 9/11 bombings, the PAN Am bombings, etc - not the 1400 year old commeration of our imam (as).
If blood matam ruins Islam's image, then one can say the same about several things:
Hijab - oppressing women
Hajj - Idolistic ritual going around a stone and throwing rocks at a stone-made Satan
Jihad - dying for a place in paradise and Hurs.
etc.
Bottonline, we reject what others say because we this is what Allah (swt) has ordered us to do.
For shias, this is the same - Allah (swt) has ordered us to love the ahl-bait (as) and never separate from them and the quran. The commeration of the imam's great sacrifice is ONE of our symbol for this cause.
It is NOT the only thing.
ws
Actually my friends did mention those passion plays you speak about in the Phillipines and Latin America. One of my best friends is from Paraguay and they do the same rituals.
Zanjeer ka matam doesn't really ruin the image of Islam (though Islamophobes will use it against us) but it makes the Westerners turn away from us. I know that zanjeer ka matam is not violent. Our goal should be to attract them to us so we can show them the universality of Imam Husayn's message.
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*Originally posted by Gandalf: *
Loved the quote on the sunni suicide bombers.
What has now made Islam look violent is the 9/11 bombings, the PAN Am bombings, etc - not the 1400 year old commeration of our imam (as).
If blood matam ruins Islam's image, then one can say the same about several things:
Hijab - oppressing women
Hajj - Idolistic ritual going around a stone and throwing rocks at a stone-made Satan
Jihad - dying for a place in paradise and Hurs.
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Hijab in no way oppresses women, it does not stop them to go to colleges, offices or any other public place, think of it as a protective shield of some women.
There is a huge difference between throwing stones on a piece of rock and hurting yourself with stones/knives/swords that too with your own hands. And jumping off a cliff in not called Jihad.
Your quote on suni bombers is not only very absurd but idiotic, the least Hazrat Mohammad or Hazrat Ali would have wanted is Muslims inflating hatred among each other for such bizarre reasons as yours.
Salman, do what your religion tells you to do, don’t conceal it for the sake of attraction of non-believers.
My quote on Sunni suicide bombers is FACT which you cannot deny.
My religion does not tell me to do zanjeer ka matam. I choose not to do it. Shia ulema differ on whether or not zanjeer ka matam is Ok.
My religion does indeed teach me tolerance and acceptance of others, regardless of faith. It teaches me the universality of mankind. Our Imams have taught us to bring the Message of Imam Husayn to mankind. One need not be a Shia to respect Imam Husayn's sacrifice for humanity and justice.
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*Originally posted by Salman: *
My quote on Sunni suicide bombers is FACT which you cannot deny.
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what do you think I'm denying?
Sunnis have an infatuation with suicide. They like killing themselves, and other innocent lives. I am thrilled when they fail and only kill themselves and not other innocents.
Oh and please don't bring the tired fact that the first suicide bomber was a Shia from Hezbollah. He gave his life to rid the invading American Marines in Beirut. That was a legitimate attack on a foreign army. The Shia of Lebanon are the only successful group to rid Lebanon of Israel. The Palestinian Sunnis have failed miserably in this area.
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*Originally posted by Salman: *
Sunnis have an infatuation with suicide. They like killing themselves, and other innocent lives. I am thrilled when they fail and only kill themselves and not other innocents.
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Wonderful! I never realized that I should have an infatuation with suicide and should kill myself. I guess they missed this vital part of education in the madrassah. Any other pearls of wisdom we may have missed?
Other pearls of wisdom:
I was watching a BBC documentary on Sunni madrassahs in Pakistan where they teach hatred of Sufis and Shias. Salman Ahmad from Junoon visited them and asked them to quote from the Quran to tell them where music was forbidden. The poor mullahs changed the subject. So apparently you guys hate music as well. Too bad. You're missing out on some good stuff.
Right.. so all sunnis hate sufis, shias and music. Very good. The list is getting more interesting, by the minute :k:
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*Originally posted by Salman: *
Oh and please don't bring the tired fact that the first suicide bomber was a Shia from Hezbollah. He gave his life to rid the invading American Marines in Beirut. That was a legitimate attack on a foreign army. The Shia of Lebanon are the only successful group to rid Lebanon of Israel. The Palestinian Sunnis have failed miserably in this area.
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A single man alone can not represent the notions, believes and ritual of a whole sect or nation for that matter.
PS: Thankyou for bringing up these incidents as I knew neither of them.
this thread actually raises a question: what are shia views on jihad? i mean generally we don't see shias participating in such activities like our friend pointed out the problem of 'palestinian sunnis' (sounds weird). What is their take on Palestine/Israel situation? Are the Palestinian sunnis engaged in jihad?
btw, some really funny generalizations you got there Salman.
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*Originally posted by Salman: *
Other pearls of wisdom:
I was watching a BBC documentary on Sunni madrassahs in Pakistan where they teach hatred of Sufis and Shias. Salman Ahmad from Junoon visited them and asked them to quote from the Quran to tell them where music was forbidden. The poor mullahs changed the subject. So apparently you guys hate music as well. Too bad. You're missing out on some good stuff.
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o my the Quran even never mentions anywhere that dancing is forbidden....
or that mixed parties of men and women r not allowed....
or that one shud not take drugs....
for that matter, watching porn is also not mentioned in Quran as a "no no"....
or is it????