…Does not exist in GS, for which I am no less thankful for, so I am creating this…Philosophers are said to be Jehannamees, that is they start thinking so deep, they wander far away in their musings from the path of Allah (SWT), and we know that thoughts too deep weaken action and dissolve resolve…But nonetheless, far from God, Godless Wonders, Atheists, trouble-makers, call them what you will, but some of them sure wrote some awesome stuff…:)…I would like to share with you and hope you do the same, writings, sayings of people that you believe brought a change in your life or somehow reflected your own thoughts…These are couple of pages from Michael de Montaigne’s (1533-1592) work titled “Cowardice, the Mother of Cruelty”…I am sure this will strike a chord with you someway…
I would not say that ALL philosophers are far from God...I think in a way the Rasul was a philosopher and a lot of the scientific and literature work done in the Golden Age was done by Islamic philosophers. I always like to think that Islam is a philosophy in itself, although most of our philosophy dept doesn't buy that theory.
In addition, many philosophers tried to prove God's existence by philosophy.
Which Rasul are you talking about…Are you talking about the Holy Prophet (SAW)?..What makes you think the Holy Prophet (SAW) was philosopher? What philosophy do you believe did the Holy Prophet (SAW) bring, teach or say? He (SAW) was a messenger who conveyed to us Allah (SWT)'s Law…What do you find so philosophic about that? Islam and philosophy are two different paths…Although all the philosophy that survives today is here thanks to Muslim philosophers…
Islam is a philosophy - the ultimate true philosophy - that is what my argument is about...and you dont necessarily have to dream up something for it to be a philosophy...you can be told it and accept it...that is what philosophy students do today. I can say...oh I go along the lines of so and so's philosophy...how is that different from accepting a religion..
I know my argument is probably weak, and i haven't investigated it enough...but I think that any kind of way-of-life (which islam is) is a type of philosphy whether you discovered it yourself or whether God just told you.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
Islam is a philosophy - the ultimate true philosophy - that is what my argument is about...and you dont necessarily have to dream up something for it to be a philosophy...you can be told it and accept it...that is what philosophy students do today. I can say...oh I go along the lines of so and so's philosophy...how is that different from accepting a religion..
I know my argument is probably weak, and i haven't investigated it enough...but I think that any kind of way-of-life (which islam is) is a type of philosphy whether you discovered it yourself or whether God just told you.
[/QUOTE]
The most dynamic and revolutionary philosophers have been those whose philosophy has been shaped by their beliefs...
[/QUOTE]
The truth I agree upon !!
PS: nice thread!, I wud love to see some constructive disscusion here. About Montaigne, Yes! he has truely captured what you may call an instinctual difference between Man and Beast !
don't u think that philosophy and religion have an overlap somewhere?
i think they do.....there is a great deal of similarity and overlap between these two.
figures like Augustine: he tried to explore this grey-region between philosophy and religion......and it was his thoughts which governed christianity for a long period. Same can be said of Aquinas and Luther.
if u say the purpose of religion is to improve human life, then the same purpose is that of philosophy, like Plato's or Aristotle's.
And also in the Muslim world there have been a lot of philosophers, or other ppl who took interest in philosophy. It is even argued that the decline of the Muslim world began when fundamentalists denied students to read philosophical works of antiquity. And by that denied them to broaden their Islamic perspective using the Quran as reference and thinking about other philosophies.
don't u think that philosophy and religion have an overlap somewhere?
i think they do.....there is a great deal of similarity and overlap between these two.
figures like Augustine: he tried to explore this grey-region between philosophy and religion......and it was his thoughts which governed christianity for a long period. Same can be said of Aquinas and Luther.
if u say the purpose of religion is to improve human life, then the same purpose is that of philosophy, like Plato's or Aristotle's.
And also in the Muslim world there have been a lot of philosophers, or other ppl who took interest in philosophy. It is even argued that the decline of the Muslim world began when fundamentalists denied students to read philosophical works of antiquity. And by that denied them to broaden their Islamic perspective using the Quran as reference and thinking about other philosophies.
[/QUOTE]
Overlap, yes...Override, no...The Bushido code of the Japanese Samurai stated, "The law may upset reason, but on no account must reason be allowed to upset the law."...The idiot Goethe is one example who practiced his own morals as religion...As for your claim about Muslims being stopped from studying philosophy, that's wrong...The bait-ul-Hikma in Baghdad had philosophers from all over the Muslim world debating and arguing philosophy...As for Quran as a reference to philosophy, I wouldn't dare indulge in that...
Overlap, yes...Override, no...The Bushido code of the Japanese Samurai stated, "The law may upset reason, but on no account must reason be allowed to upset the law."
[/quote]
why can't u see philosophy as part of religion. it's not that reason changes law, but isn't law based on reason? are there any 'unreasonable' laws? i don't think so. So if we agree that laws are based on reason, then we can confindently state that reason is part of law, in other words, philosophy is part of reason.
[quote]
...The idiot Goethe is one example who practiced his own morals as religion...
[/quote]
on what basis do u call him idiot? very 'unreasonable'
[quote]
As for your claim about Muslims being stopped from studying philosophy, that's wrong...The bait-ul-Hikma in Baghdad had philosophers from all over the Muslim world debating and arguing philosophy...
[/quote]
yes......but i dare say this was BEFORE the decay in the muslim world set in. and the reason for this decay was the closing of such intellectual centers. in early times, mosques had seperate rooms for philosophical books from around the world..........but around 1200BC such rooms were closed down, and ppl weren't allowed entry to them etc.
[quote]
As for Quran as a reference to philosophy, I wouldn't dare indulge in that...
[/QUOTE]
as is said, if reason is part of law........in other words reason finds it reflection in law......then u might say that philosophy is (just a little) part of the Quran.
