I have heard quite a few references to Pakistan’s “Establishment” but do not know any public figures assoiciated with it. Who are the Establishment, what do you need to be a member and what is their agenda?
A brief defintion is " group of people holding most of the power and influence in a government or society. Often used with the."
Someone has written a wikipdia entry about Pakistan’s Establishment
The Establishment, is a cooperative federation and an intelligence community that is an academically defined terminology commonly used by Pakistan’s political scientists and historians to address the powerful military-dominant organization in Pakistan. This terminology is frequently used by political scholars and analysts around the world for the powerful military-dominant oligarchy in Pakistan. This group of individuals, while not exclusively military, are considered key decision makers in major policy decisions ranging from national security to the defence policy and the use of intelligence agencies in Pakistan. Since the 1988, at time when the Benazir Bhutto’s government was in effect, the Establishment attracted the conservative and nationalistic policies which were led under Nawaz Sharif[1]
Since Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto appointed General Abdul Waheed Kakar as the Chief of Army Staff, since then, it clearly shows that the support for democracy and the civil liberties roughly depends on the attitudes of Chief of Army Staff. General Kakar’s appointment was highly crucial for Benazir Bhutto who gave the civil liberties to the people of Pakistan. However, during the 1980s, the Establishment under General Zia-ul-Haq whose idea of religious conservatism was the primary line of his military government, opposed any idea of “Freedom of Speech” and media independence as the suppression of media was continued during this period. However, in 2002, the military government of General Pervez Musharraf who as part of his “Enlightened Moderation”, passed laws giving the news media more freedom [2]
Defence expert Brian Cloughley says: "All Pakistan’s military coups have been bloodless, successful and popular – but popular only for a while,The trouble is that military people are usually quite good at running large organisations, even civilian ones, but generally fail to understand politics and government, and the give-and-take so necessary in that esoteric world [3] At times when civilian leaders are ineffectual or accused of making secret deals with the west public support for the establishment increases.[4]. On the other hand at the same time when Military Rulers are ineffectual and the COAS accused of being weak on foreign policy support for civilian rule increases
First thing that comes to my mind obviously is the military and the higher ups in it. What about civilian rulers like Nawaz Sharif and the Bhutto’s? Would industrliasts, feudals and other powerful political and bureaucratic families be included?
What and who exactly are they? Can we name any of our behind the scene players? Who does the upper ranks of the Army and ISI consist if? Which groups of other non-public figures also hold a lot of influence?
^ Correct ISI is pakistani establishment and if they promote some one they always have the best interest of Pakistan , The only loyal bunch left in pakistan Govt loyal to the country .
^ Correct ISI is pakistani establishment and if they promote some one they always have the best interest of Pakistan , The only loyal bunch left in pakistan Govt loyal to the country .
Best interest of whose Pakistan? The 0.00000 whatever that constitutes the ISI and upper military officers or the 90% plus who are struggling to survive in Pakistan?
What loyal acts have the ISI done for Pakistan exactly?
Best interest of whose Pakistan? The 0.00000 whatever that constitutes the ISI and upper military officers or the 90% plus who are struggling to survive in Pakistan?
What loyal acts have the ISI done for Pakistan exactly?
This topic has been beaten to death innumerable times. I somhow feel that his thread will ultimately lead to bad blood, without any productive discussion.
On a side note, I loved it:
"Location: England: The country where Pizza gets to your house quicker than the Police"
^ Correct ISI is pakistani establishment and if they promote some one they always have the best interest of Pakistan , The only loyal bunch left in pakistan Govt loyal to the country .
Well back in the days army hated shaheed-BB and liked nawaz.
We all know who was better prime minister.
Nawaz did have some plan for pakisatan.
BB-shaheed only had plans for jyalas like ppl works program .. and a brilliant idea...
to print money and pay for ppl works program so jyalas can benefit from it.
^ Correct ISI is pakistani establishment and if they promote some one they always have the best interest of Pakistan , The only loyal bunch left in pakistan Govt loyal to the country .
yeh my ass of best interest. who the hell is ISI to dictate how to country should govern. they are just public servants just like any other majah/teeli.
Hmmm when you ask me about Establishment... I dont think its just the Army or the Gangsters or whatever...
Without sounding like some communist here I reckon its the Rich, not just the Jagirdaars but the Burgers and all those elitists who get to the top on money trians and connections. Merit just only gets you so far in Pakistan.
The Establishment are whoever is at the top and cuts the ladder to prevent others climbing the rungs... So be it Army politicians, gangsters whatever none of them is a pauper you'll note and not many come from humble origins.
yeh my ass of best interest. who the hell is ISI to dictate how to country should govern. they are just public servants just like any other majah/teeli.
I agree with you.
But when you cripple you don't swear on besakhi.
Thing is its men who earn respect for their organizations, respect is power.
So far or till bout 5-6 year ago it was mostly army who had integrity hence respect.
when is the last time did you saw the uniformed soldier in public?
i don’t know where are you living but the reality is our soldiers can’t travel without security.. in South Punjab/Karachi/all of KP & Baluchistan. People hate the military brass this is for sure and God forbid if they coup again i will see how much public will support them or tear them apart.
Press conference by Ata Ullah Mengal was enough of the eye opener:
military belongs in the barracks not in washroom to tell me how to wipe my ass.
I agree with you.
But when you cripple you don't swear on besakhi.
Thing is its men who earn respect for their organizations, respect is power.
So far or till bout 5-6 year ago it was mostly army who had integrity hence respect.
Our army has not changed in the last 64 years but more and more people have awakened to the reality of wha the army is and the sort of people it is led by. Although, the last year has been very bad and very damaging.
The integrity the army had 6 years ago was not built on deserved integrity but misinformation.
Hmmm when you ask me about Establishment... I dont think its just the Army or the Gangsters or whatever...
Without sounding like some communist here I reckon its the Rich, not just the Jagirdaars but the Burgers and all those elitists who get to the top on money trians and connections. Merit just only gets you so far in Pakistan.
The Establishment are whoever is at the top and cuts the ladder to prevent others climbing the rungs... So be it Army politicians, gangsters whatever none of them is a pauper you'll note and not many come from humble origins.
That is true. Pakistan has little social mobility so climbing up is difficult. To me the establishment consists of what you but then some of these hae very limited power. Classic cases are our civilian rulers the Bhuttos and the Sharifs who have ruled but had limited power.
