The Original Shia

Re: The Original Shia

So Are you saying that hz Ali(as) was doin zulm? If no what reason was there to fight Ali(as)

Lust of power? Even if we assume hz Ali(as) was greedy, by the time of war he was already in power.

When we say bibi xxxxx is the mother of believers it does not mean she is a good muslim. It is that noone else can marry a prophets wife, just like u cant marry ur mother. :slight_smile:

If Quran says O Muhammad u are a Rahmat for the entire creation, it doesnt mean he is very very kind, it literally means he(pbub) really is Rehmat for the Entire creation. Although yes there are some hadiths which are not to be taken literally, but in this case they had to be :slight_smile:

Re: The Original Shia

MesmeriZeD - Existence of Abdullah ibn Saba is not just a possibility as you say but a certainity as much as Ali ibn Talib (ra) was there.

Otherwise how could he give Divinity to Ali ibn Talib (ra)?

My take was that you guys take the words of your imams seriously.

There is a new tendency among the Shii’ nowadays to be in a denial mode when discussing about Mr. Abdullah bin Saba.

**MesmeriZeD ** You should know that constant exaggeration over the years tends infiltrate to the masses and does come the norm.

Normally the Ithna Ashari Shii’s tend to show that they are one solid block but rather misleadingly.

Aren’t Ithna Ashari Shii’s split into 2 groups, i.e. Akhbaris and Usoolis

You can see the differences here and they seem to be quite serious.

http://www.akhbari.org/differences.htm

Re: The Original Shia

So you are resembling her with those Kufaars. So sad to know that. Well you are making my position more strong by posting these childish information, as they are only words of mouth, with no proper reference.

We respect her because She was not only the wife of Prophet, our mother too. As She is mother of all muslims, not of non-muslims. But we respect her because She was a believer of Islam. She helped Sayyedna Mohammed through out his life. She was a genius also and Arab women asked so many faminine problems from her which they hasitated to ask directly from Prophet because He, ofcouse, was a man. She refered so many Hadiths, She was a Muhadisa, as you know whom is called Muhadis. Muhadis is the person who quote and write Hadiths.

Now I have something to ask you.

*  If She took part in murder of Sayyedna Usman, why she aksed to take evenge from killers?
*  If She was a Kafira, why Allah said that She is mother of Muslims?
*  If She brought up Sayyedna Ali, why She hated him?
*  Why She wanted to kill him, to make her grandchildren orphens?
*  Why She killed her other Son in Law?
*  She lived with Prophet for many years, embrased Islam. Why She couldnot understand the meanings of Islam?
*  She was also the member of Prophet's family, why She didnot claim the right of Sayyedna Ali as a Khalifa? If you say Sayyedna Abu-Bakr was her own Father, but She was married to Prophet and She lived in the house of Prophet, She could get more benefits if Sayyedna Ali were made Caliph at that time.

Ayayhs from Quran.

  1. Prophet has more right of your life than your selves. His Wives are Mothers of Muslims.

  2. Wives of Prophet are not like any other woman. Dont marry them after the death of Prophet.

  3. O Prophet, to marry such a number of women is Halal for you. But dont marry more women, if they attract you.

  4. Or even dont change them by divorcing them and marry other women.

  5. Adopted sons are not your own sons, these are words of mouth.

  6. They dont have share in property.

  7. The women they divorce are Halal for Guardians.

I have seen others who took an ayah, some time the middle part. And claim what they think. And I quoted only ayah because the Ayah is Word of Allah, the tafseer is human thought. And Allah mentioned in Holy Quran that some people inhance their Kufar by reciting the Holy Quran.

Allama Iqbal well said, Khud badaltay naheen, Quran ko badal daytay hain

Allah said in Quran,

Some Ayahs are Muhkam and Some are Mutashabehat. Those who have disease in their heart, try to follow and claim their heart will by Muta shabehat. And those who are real believrs, will read Muta shabehat and will take them as a Muhkam and will believe .

Well I prefer Quran, as it is the only Book without any change (In words only, translation and tafseer are human work).
I will say about Hadiths, that in the era of four Caliphs, rare hadiths were quoted. The believers trusted Holy Quran. In the era of Caliph Maviya, most Hadiths were quoted. So you can see that after almost 30 years of death of Prophet, these Hadiths were quoted.

As Sayyedna Umer once said (I believe this Hadith of Sayyedna Umer is authentic) when he was senting preachers to remote areas," Dont tell them so many Hadiths, they will take interest in Hadiths instead of Quran"

Allah promised to guard only Holy Quran. You can see the other books, which Allah sent to his prophets, are also changed now. So what is a proof that Hadiths books are safe now?

So you messed the whole thing. Niether Sayyedna Ali was wrong nor Sayyedah Aisha was. It was a plot of So Called Companions Of Sayyedna Ali. As I already told you that by showing love to decendents of Holy Prophet, they want to get famous, want to get attention and sympathies. Also want to creat Disturbence.

As Holy Quran Said in Surrah Al-Buqqarah (The Cow)

When you say to them,ā€œ** Dont spread disturbence, they say,ā€ We are not spreading disturbence, but we are the right ones and are correcting the matter. Allah doesnot like those persons who creat disturbence.**" Amen

Now here we go again. So Shias think that other companions were Ignorant and illiterate persons. If this is true the tell me…

* Sayyedna Omer were one of six people who could read and write. Then how he was ignorant and illiterate?
* He is also the Pray of Prophet, "O Allah make muslim one of the Omers, Omer bin Hasham or Omer bin Khitab to give strenght to Islam. Why he Prayed?
* Omer bin Hasham was his real uncle (Sagga Chuchaa) and he was a Kafir. So how you claim that if someone is a member of Prophet's family, He/She cant be disbeliever?

Re: The Original Shia

OMG… you are the gurru of spreading rumors without giving any references… hello its a religous matter.. you don’t want to mislead others.. I can come up with a bunch of accusations like you.. but I don’t want to mislead others… before we proceed … I want you to give references to the accusation number 5 along with the references… what exactly are you referring too.

Re: The Original Shia

Refernce= Writer= Allama Talib Johrai. Book= Insaan aur maasir-e-Quran.

Need more to know???

Re: The Original Shia

Here is more…

  1. All the Imams are Masoomeen (Innocent).
  2. They even dont have Human errors,(Which even prophets had because they were Human)
  3. Allah has the right to rule, no human is alowed to rule earth.
  4. Sayyedna Ali is a choosen one, so he cant accept other people advices.
  5. When Sayyedna Ali accepted the Khilaphat of Muaviya, he became Kafir, because he broke the rule of Allah.
  6. So fight against Sayyedna Ali is right. (Thats how the Shias were called Khuwarijs)

But Ismailis add more…

  1. If all Imams are Masoomeen, so Ismail is also masoom.
  2. If he drank wine, it will another act of masoomeen.
  3. Why his father replace him with his brother.
  4. An Imam dont have human error, so Ismail is also without human error, even if he drank Wine.

Need to know more???

Re: The Original Shia

^ You should try not to talk much. You make no sense. And I’m a certified sunni, and I still think that. :rolleyes:

Re: The Original Shia

Well PCG, if you want to defend Sayyedah Aisha, why you went against Sayyedna Ali?

I already said they were both innocent in that matter. Ahhh how many times should I repeat it???

Re: The Original Shia

Correct gammar:

"Well PCG, if you want to defend Sayyedah Aisha, then why did you ARGUE against Sayyedna Ali?

And since when is saying Sayyedna a fashion on this website?

Re: The Original Shia

For OMG who is constantly asserting that been ummal momineen actually means being a very very good muslim. Being a ummal momineen has nothing to do with it. It means that they are forbidden for other men after the Prophet(pbuh) just like mothers are forbidden for their children.

Re: The Original Shia

Thanks for sharing your point of view.

regards,

bob