Re: The Original Shia
^ I totally agree with you.
In order to be a muslim, you will do well by following the Quran. I've said time and time again, if you just DO THAT alone, that's a lifetime of effort to implement Quranic values in your own life.
Which, by the looks of it, most people here don't have...
Just a few points - with all the cut-and-paste, I really did not have the patience to read all the arguments. Just a word of advice - if you read something from some other article, just summarize the main points in your own words, and link us to the actual article. It makes my BP go up seeing all this cut and paste.
Points:
- I do not think any human is infallible - the Prophet, Ali (R), and his successors included. Here's why: The Quran mentions numerous times over and over again that the human reader does not know all. That God is all-knowing. How is that not familiar to you shias who say that the Imams are infallible, and ACTUALLY believe it?
IMHO, I meet a lot of shias who don't know the first thing about this infallible issue. ABCD's maybe, I dunno.
- The hadith that Shia's believe in - that for whoever the RAsul is a leader, then Ali is also a leader...
I still don't think that's justification for Ali (R) INHERITING leadership.
Why?
If God wanted leadership over muslims (Caliphate) to be an inherited leadership (like a monarchy, basically), then why did the Prophet have no blood-related SON that lived past infanthood? And also, the Quran makes it a big point that an adopted son is not the same thing as a real son. So even if the Rasul thought of Ali (R) as kind of like his son, you still could not use the argument of inheritance, because Ali (R) was actually not a male heir to the Rasul in the first place. Therefore, the idea that only Ali (R)'s blood-related sons are the only possible leaders, a Shia principle, just doesn't make any sense.
You see, the chain would look like this:
Rasul ---> no blood-related son ---> Ali (R) ---> blood-related son ---> blood-related son and so on and so forth.
Plus, I'm sure that the Prophet had high regard for Ali (R). Compared to the leaders we have today, all 4 caliphs were good in comparison. IN COMPARISON. All 4 of 'em made mistakes. Aisha made mistakes. They ALL made mistakes. And I think that's the spirit behind sunnis - we acknowledge that no human is infallible, otherwise the Quran probably would have mentioned something so extraordinary and so necessary for muslims to know, especially since it involved the leadership of muslims.
What the Prophet most likely meant was that regard Ali (R) as your leader - in other words, if you need to ask advice or need help, or if Ali (R) is commanding you in an army, or if you need some service of some kind, etc, then you can go to Ali (R). He, along with the other Sahabah, served roles as community leaders alongside the Rasul. Of course, they were reporting to the Rasul, since the Rasul was the primary leader. But the sahabah, especially Ali, all had leadership capabilities.
- The claim that Aisha was in error for even waging a war.
For that I can say its just such a cheap shot to use the Quranic ayah that one guppy posted to go against her. I bet the hadith that says women should not lead also probably came from someone on the early Shia camp side.
If women should be sitting at home ALL DAY and doing no work in the community, then why was Aisha active in the community, as well as many other females, DURING THE PROPHET'S LIFE?
Why did the Prophet do camel racing with his own wife? Why didn't the Prophet admonish Khadija to leave her job? She did that of her own accord and that was her decision. Aisha was a major teacher. She was active in society and spreading talim about the religion. Hafsa (r) was entrusted with keeping the first compiled copy of the Quran.
Why were women working in the battle fields during jihaad times in support roles (nursing, etc?) under the guidance of the Prophet?
Notice the second clause in the ayah you quote. It asks women not to go around flamboyantly in the community, essentially. For example, a lady who walks out of the house with a mini skirt off to smoke some cigars and do some drugs with her friends would qualify in that category. A female going off to work and doing her work honestly and at the service of her community would not fall under that category. Always look at the context of things, please.
These women were respected as MEMBERS of the community, not just property that sat at home and didn't do anything except cook.
So, I would say that Aisha knew where she went wrong in that war. And it wasn't the fact that she fought a war, that she was wrong in. It was the idea that maybe she had fought for the wrong reasons.
BIG difference between the two.