It is a beautiful name. But sometimes I think that Muslims of subcontinent lost big time by coming up with a new name, and leaving the name India to be used for Bharat exclusively.
While there never was a country named India in subcontinent, it was used to denote to the land east of Persian empire by Persians and Afghans. Thus there is a lot of history associated with the name India. And the region of Pakistan shares this long history with Bharat. The whole world knows about this history and associates the word ‘India’ with it.
B****y coining a new name ‘Pakistan’, we effectively presented all the history and its achievements to Bharatis. For example, the Taj Mahal, Qutub Minar, The Moryas, Ashoka, the Mughals, Hyderabad nizam, Tipu Sultan, concept of zero, tabla, sitar, dhol, etc. etc; are all now considered a part of history of Bharat. Only because for the world, Bharat=India.
We don’t realize it, but I think this is a huge HUGE loss of our identity.
It would have been more appropriate if we had called this new country ‘Muslim India’. **Or we could have just used both names at the same time, ‘Pakistan’ AND ‘Muslim India’. **
Bharat also does it. Officially its name is not India but Bharat.
Neocon? :) Please keep your imposition of 'fatwas' to yourself.
Your passport says India because it was presented in silver platter to you by Pakistanis. It is same as Egypt when the official name is Misr/Masr.
Being a Pakistani forum, I would rather like some Pakistanis to respond to a matter pertaining to pakistan, instead of someone from Bharat. The intended audience of this thread is Pakistani people.
Indus Valley civilization which was the basis was of the word 'India' is almost all present in present day Pakistan. I agree with the OP that we have handed over all our historical heritage to Indians.
I love these kind of topics where posters offer something new and original...where someone can break away from an obligatory practice of keep on repeating populist rhetoric...a great topic khoji!
i never thought about it...but it is a very valid point. On top of it we could not protect the newly coined label "pakistan" either and associated it with bombings, terrorism, blood, military rule and what not...i was in Zutphen, NL few weeks ago to attend a wedding of a B-school friend of mine and met many European friends after a long time....and usually late nite when people get drunk, they end up speaking their minds....almost all of them had a really negative view of Pakistan...but that is a different topic
coming back to the topic...the point is that we muslims demanded a separate country not hindus or sikhs....so the burden was on our shoulder to come up with a new name and let go our historical legacy by quitting the name India...
but your topic is a loaded one as it also begs a fundamental question whether the demand of a separate country by Muslims on a religious premises was a wise move or not....once we made that demand, we had no rights to the the name India as the name india stands for all....muslims, sikhs, hindus etc...
had we orchestrated the movement of pakistan on an economic basis, we would have much better chances to claim for the name India...but no, we wanted a county where can establish "islam" and live by "islamic principles"...and boy...we did that and became the most celebrated gutter of this universe!
so live with it now bud...we asked for it! didn't we?
Indus Valley civilization which was the basis was of the word 'India' is almost all present in present day Pakistan. I agree with the OP that we have handed over all our historical heritage to Indians.
Actually it's named after the river Indus, which for greater part is in Pakistan. And I agree, Pakistan should have been named India. Then we could act as If our country is the daddy of the sub-continent and our neighbours were once part of our country. LOL
Actually it's named after the river Indus, which for greater part is in Pakistan. And I agree, Pakistan should have been named India. Then we could act as If our country is the daddy of the sub-continent and our neighbours were once part of our country. LOL
Not on the topic but on your post, when i thought about it then i just had a weird feeling that if Pakistan was named India or Indus and India was named Hindustan then we would have been in serious identity problem.
Now on topic a bit, Laal Topi (zaid chaman) once said that he is ready to merge pakistan in india provided that the combined unit is called pakistan. Naam me sab kuch rakha hai.
PS. i know this thread is for pakistanis only so plz bear with me. Though it is a very interesting topic, i will be following the thread.
Not on the topic but on your post, when i thought about it then i just had a weird feeling that if Pakistan was named India or Indus and India was named Hindustan then we would have been in serious identity problem.
Now on topic a bit, Laal Topi (zaid chaman) once said that he is ready to merge pakistan in india provided that the combined unit is called pakistan. Naam me sab kuch rakha hai.
PS. i know this thread is for pakis only so plz bear with me. Though it is a very interesting topic, i will be following the thread.
the thread is open for everyone....considering the suggested proposal is to discuss the merits of having "india" as a name instead of Pakistan ....that makes indians an equal party to this discussion ... by default!
had we orchestrated the movement of pakistan on an economic basis, we would have much better chances to claim for the name India...but no, we wanted a county where can establish "islam" and live by "islamic principles"...and boy...we did that and became the most celebrated gutter of this universe!
so live with it now bud...we asked for it! didn't we?
Phoenixdesi, I understand your confusion. Actually the topic has been made confusing by the successful governments starting from the passing of Objective Resolution in 1949 (?), that is right after the Quaid passed away.
But if we look closely we will see that the demand of Pakistan had nothing to do with religion. It was all about economics. Muslim league wanted a country for Muslims, it did not want a country for imposition of shariah. This is why every islamic party, including jamat e Islami, and khaksar opposed its creation.
The slogans for Pakistan never included anything like Islam is in danger, because Islam never was in danger there. Muslim league's concern was the democracy and obvious marginalization of Muslims at the hands of Hindu majority.
The most common slogan of Pakistan movement was 'le ke rahein ge Pakistan, butt ke rahe ga Hindustan'. It was only later that Pakistani governments made us believe that the famous slogan was 'Pakistan ka matlab kya, la ilaha illallah'.
Quaid did talk about islamic principles being the basis of the country, but he was only talking about principles like equality, freedom, discipline, honesty, etc.
Indus Valley civilization which was the basis was of the word 'India' is almost all present in present day Pakistan. I agree with the OP that we have handed over all our historical heritage to Indians.
**Since I am in teaching profession here, guess what, "Mo-an Jo Daro" and Indus Valley Civilization, presented by Indian students proudly here as a part of India. When corrected that my ancestors belonged to a town very near to that area, is in Pakistan, they say so what before 1947 it was and it will remain be part of Indian heritage. They further added that they are proud that Indians belong to one of the most ancient civilization to impress upon local students. In their presentation they showed photographs of artifices and statues wearing ajarak and Sindhi topi, four or five thousand years old, are still very much popular in locals even today. Goray and gorian were very much astonished to know about Indus Valley Civilization, very much impressed to see the fine embroidery on topi and prints on ajrak, perhaps one of the oldest known by mankind.
I am also proud that I belong to one of the oldest civilization of the world and it is a part of Pakistan.**
One of the reasons for creating Pakistan was to break away from India, not make a new India. So it makes sense in coming up with a new name.
A lot of people in Pakistan get confused by the Indian origins of Pakistan. If Pakistan was India before, it doens't mean it can't be anything other than India today. Things change, even India has not been India since the beginning. The name India probably itself is a foreign name given by the British.
If we get confused about the identity of Pakistan in that way, then USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and many other countries should be the most identity-less countries on earth, but they are not.
It is a beautiful name. But sometimes I think that Muslims of subcontinent lost big time by coming up with a new name, and leaving the name India to be used for Bharat exclusively.
While there never was a country named India in subcontinent, it was used to denote to the land east of Persian empire by Persians and Afghans. Thus there is a lot of history associated with the name India. And the region of Pakistan shares this long history with Bharat. The whole world knows about this history and associates the word 'India' with it.
By coining a new name 'Pakistan', we effectively presented all the history and its achievements to Bharatis. For example, the Taj Mahal, Qutub Minar, The Moryas, Ashoka, the Mughals, Hyderabad nizam, Tipu Sultan, concept of zero, tabla, sitar, dhol, etc. etc; are all now considered a part of history of Bharat. Only because for the world, Bharat=India.
We don't realize it, but I think this is a huge HUGE loss of our identity.
It would have been more appropriate if we had called this new country 'Muslim India'. *Or we could have just used both names at the same time, 'Pakistan' AND 'Muslim India'. *
Bharat also does it. Officially its name is not India but Bharat.
the problem is...if we have to change a name, i would stay away from the name india...
fine, Pakistan is associated with all kind of really bad things ... and guppies know i have been writing about them for a long time....but name india is another source of embarrassment globally.
[EDITED]
i say choose a south american name...they are considered kool, sexy, beautiful, women lovers, soccer players, salsa, great dancers, fun!
[mod]Avoid Stereotypical comments that seem inflammatory in nature.[/mod]
The thing is that we have disowned our heritage and allowed India to claim inheritance in full. As we can see the Indus river passes through the middle of Pakistan and the civilization was present on both sides of the banks of the river. It started from Mehrgarh (Balochistan) and later moved to Moenjodaro, Kot Diji, Harrapa, Rahman Dheri (KPK) and Indian states neighbouring Pakistan (Gujarat, Punjab and Haryana).
khoji, may i propose the new name for Pakistan, as " New India".
you are welcome to share the history, culture and ancient glory of this land.
Oh, thank you very much. Now I will die in peace. :)
You should not be feeling bad about this thread. No one is suggesting that your country is responsible for anything here.
Instead of 'New India', I would have preferred Muslim India ... not that it really matters now.
It pains to see foreigners calling biryani, kabab and pulao 'Indian dishes', and then saying 'Pakistani dishes are very similar to Indian dishes'.
The thing of it is, we can just as easily reclaim our heritage, regardless of whether we are called Pakistan or anything else.
If tiny Sweden can have its own identity, if singapore can have its own identity, if multiple comparativel small countries can have an identity of their own, there is no reason Pakistan cant. The issue is one of how Pakistan markets itself, what image it presents to the world. Currently Pakistans image isnt a positive one and over al its inaccurate and confused.
Once Pakistan extricates itself from its current situation, if it can forgo its religious obsession and focus on the uniqueness of its culture, we can then create an identity which distinguishes itself from India the nation, but is still grounded in our shared history and heritage.
the problem is...if we have to change a name, i would stay away from the name india...
fine, Pakistan is associated with all kind of really bad things ... and guppies know i have been writing about them for a long time....but name india is another source of embarrassment globally.
[EDITED]
i say choose a south american name...they are considered kool, sexy, beautiful, women lovers, soccer players, salsa, great dancers, fun!
You should add joke alert to this post before some indian poster takes i seriously or before some Pakistani fanboy poster starts having issues.
You should add joke alert to this post before some indian poster takes i seriously or before some Pakistani fanboy poster starts having issues.
i thought it was pretty obvious it was a semi-fun post....i mean if we have decided to cut our roots, lets find our new home somewhere which is more kool!
anyway i didnt mean to hurt anyone...my depiction of "indian" name in the above mentioned post applies equally to all desis including Pakistanis .... and while a lot of it is a bit stereotyped, we do have that reputation globally!