The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

Teggy..appreciate starting a thread because i do feel that all of us are crossing limits

now I still consider myself more PTI than anyother party despite opposing IK on taliban..having said that I want a civilized debate and resepct for all the leaders ...few observations:

**how come mods have no problem with some posters calling nawaz sharif ganja on a regular basis **in every single post or is it OK by GS charter to adopt such behavior?..some called shabaz khabees..and some will address both as ganja brothers on a regular basis...how come PTI posters have no problem with this whereas they get seriously offended even if you criticize Imran politically not personally?

a non-pakistani poster had listed our elected PM Nawaz as Ganja and I think Shabaaz as Khabees in her signature......when i requested her to change her signature , i was pretty much told to "uck off....how come mods never had a problem with such derogatory posture for our elected officials by someone who does not even belong to Pakistan? and how come PTI posters have no problem with this whereas they get seriously offended even if you criticize Imran politically not personally?

few days ago, extremely offensive posts were posted in thread called Maryam Nawaz...some posters called her pig...some asked her to throw infront of dogs...some accused her for running away with someone (completely false allegation by the way..she married ADC of Nawaz with blessing of both families but even if it was not false there was no need to talk abt it) and it just went on and on and on for over 50 posts...some mods were personally involved in this discussion (all favor PTI) asking for more info and actually promoted this behavior by posting videos..all those posts are still there as i just checked the thread...

so how come mods have no problem with this offensive thread? i cannot imagine a thread attacking Imran Khan regarding his sex scandals going unnoticed for too long? and and how come PTI posters have no problem with this thread whereas they get seriously offended even if you criticize Imran politically not personally?

these are just few examples to make a point....look i am not blaming any one person or a group but i am telling my PTI friend that unless they stop encouraging this behavior for other leaders, they will be on a weaker wicket both morally and intellectually....

we all cross limits and we shd stop this. PERIOD

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

dearest jolie....last i saw, teggy opened the thread to address problems related to name-calling, mudslinging, defaming, and slandering others for their policies vis a vis politics of the country.............and how conveniently you put that topic on the backfront by saying "Mods can deal with personal insults, there's a procedure in place to deal with such things"...NO NO .... if everything was being handled smoothly and if all of us (posters and mods) were doing a fine job, teggy did not need to open this thread...

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

dear mods, i really need some guidance here......this particular topic has been raised by Jolie and many other PTIans so many times...

here is what I usually post in regards to IK's stand on taliban:

"that IK has been supporting negotiations with these animals for so long no matter how much damage they do is THE biggest reason why we lack consensuses among Pakistani masses against these talibans. He is popular in urban areas and therefore he has even confused that base who otherwise would have opposed negotiating these animals vigorously.

since as a nation, we are not capable to lift ourselves above our biases, loyalties, political affiliations...it is embarrassing and disappointing to see PTI supporters keep supporting IK's strategy on talibanism one way or the other and thus creating confusion on this very important issue that requires consensuses "***

this is my reaction on IK's vision on fundamentalism/talibanism as well as my reflection upon PTI's behavior in relation to this issue...and yes I express my opinion often especially after every big incidence when I hear IK's continued support for negotiations with taliban

i think i have every right to say and express my opinion....this is how i feel..why shd i hide it? i think it is a political discussion and what i say is within political context....there is no personal attack on IK or on PTI...does it fall under "absolutely crass, hate driven, opportunistic and bigoted generalisation, accusations and name calling of an entire group"...am i offending a group?

please guide

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

And you can say any word to PPP and PMLN and JUI etc
but

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

waisay Pasha sahib I respect you a lot but in past you have made several personal attacks on IK as well .....posted some indecent pics too....i say why?

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

PD, you now what, you are really not that bad. So sit down. It wasn't for you.

Whether I think highly of moderation standards here nor not, is a totally different subject. I have a thing or two to say, but I fear that this thread will closed right after this post. That's perhaps another topic for another day.

I'd like to believe that you are really not that innocent that you cannot differentiate between halfhearted colloquial mock aimed at someone's appearance and a formal systematic attempt at character assassination. The latter is certainly more wicked in my books. But just to clarify my stance further, You are more than welcome to refer to IK as Immy Timmy, lanky wanky etc etc. I won't bother me, just like I don't need to call NS 'ganja' to insult him. That's just so uncreative. :D

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

Thank you for this .
What do you call personal attack
Telling the truth about a main who claims him a leader
I have been seeing every thing about Zardari , Nawaz Shareef and others
You didn't spare even Shaheed BB .
And when question about IK arises , you call it his personal life
People should know about the character of a public figure

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

Ironically, NS does a fine enough job of assassinating his own character through his own misadventures that I would think that the "ganja" insults come off as rather light (and uncreative, as you state). :D

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

sit down PD! lol

ok madam jee! jo hukam aap ka, PD manhooos baith gaya hai

banda to waisay bee aap ka ghulam hai sarkar!

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

but janab why go back and start garay murday aukharna...especilaly from perspective of score settlement and tit for tat..that really sets a toxic environment..when people show BB pics of harvard or oxford or you enlighten us about sita devi jee and IK, it does not add any value..believe me on this

now if these politicians are involved in recent immoral activities or any other scandals, fine...US and western democracies do not spare their leaders for moral scandals either..and i get that..there is no way you can control those news but again no bashing and bashing and some more bashing...

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

This is the future of our nation and I have to say
Zardari is the mostly targeted here when he was ruling and I never supported him as a person but I bet here that he was a very less lying one than the man mostly supported here .

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

I will respect the feelings of politicians when they decide to respect the feelings of every bookha, illiterate, hopeless, wretched soul in Pakistan being forced to do illegal crimes to make a buck because the politicians are too busy pocketing international aide or crushing successful businesses through political party sponsored bhatta khori, and the constant human rights violations of these ministers in power, and the sheer corruption of chief justice and other members of the judiciary in the country.

They respect us, we will respect them. Until then, they're lucky they're getting the gaalian they're getting, because the gaalian they really do deserve, we dare not utter as they would be too crude for even a purely adult crowd here.

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

How would you define name-calling, mudslinging, defaming, etc? teggy asked us to re-examine our own behavior, not forum policies.

Where do yo draw the line on defamation? I don't think you can have official policy on it. Mods are doing a fine job, as it is. Public political figures are always a target of vitriol. Let it be. There are people on this forum who use filthy language. They lose credibility. That's enough.

I think the forum policies are clear enough. No personal attacks on posters. The people being personally attacked are mostly moderators and they have been generous enough.

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

Agree ,
Now a days they are not banning me

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

i see a strong connection between name-calling/personal attacks on political personalities and dirty fights among posters....in my experience, that is how these toxic fights begin on political forums...what happened in maryam nawaz thread can easily translate into a full fledged war among posters...

i used to be a mod myself and i know how hard this job is and i have a lot of respect for these mods...i just reflected upon some trends that i have observed in last few years.....plus if you read my post carefully, you may see that in addition to mods, I also questioned PTI posters that if they are so sensitive to criticism on IK which is more often done in political context, they should some respect to other political leaders as well.

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

I revisited the thread. No war going on. As for people calling her names, AP uncle is also there complaining that posters are being too respectful to her because she belongs to Lahore. That’s what I mean when I say you cannot draw a line like that.

She deserves some of the vitriol. She is not elected or experienced but heading several government initiatives without being qualified for any of them. She wants to head national health insurance despite being unable to complete her MBBS after being illegally admitted into a medical college. You want us not to criticize her a bit? Can’t I take out my frustrations verbally on this princess? Ask someone who spends half the day in the heat without electricity about these politicians and he’ll have some colorful words for you.

Why make this a PTI centric thread again? IK is the most criticized political person on these forums. Please get a count of threads and posts criticizing him vis-a-vis other politicians. Why expect the PTI posters not to react?

Just a recent example: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/642464-inqilaabs-of-pakistan.html

The article actually talks about almost every significant political leader but the OP chose to mention only one just to get inflammatory discussion. Same is the case with mainstream online media. You get more clicks if you criticize IK. Not because the PTI followers are more sensitive about IK, but just because most of the people with internet access and ability to read English liked PTI for one reason or another. When you troll, you get reactions.

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

Good to see this thread.

There is no doubt name calling or twisting name of politician regardless how bad they are or how corrupt we think they may be.

There are nicer,polite and funny ways however to make a point and noting wrong with that.

I recently raised this issue in another thread with few examples ..the thread was about Altaf Hussain I think.

Found the post.

PA forum has few "permanent residents" and with the culture set in such a way that it becomes difficult for others to post.

And yes, with this culture of calling names to politicians even Indian posters find it very easy to meddle with internal Pakistani political issues and making fun of not only Pakistani politics but also the politicians.

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

Why are you folks worrying about being "polite" about people who show no "politeness" in how they take care of your safety, and your dignity and your rights in that country?

Those of us who have family there, or are there, and are experiencing the horrors, have a different perception of "politeness".

"Politeness" gets thrown out the window when your leaders don't give a rat's behind of your safety, and your right to a life, let alone the basics of that life like roti, kapra, aur chath.

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

yaar ajeeb baat kartay ho kakay....

first i never said that there was a war going on in maryam thread....i said with such behavior there is always a potential for a war to start and all toxic attacks between posters...

and sure please attack her as much as you want to attack her in political context...please do so..no one is stopping you....but

"kissie kay saath bagh gayee thee",

"she is a pig",

"put her in-front of dogs",

posting videos where people calling her a characterless woman,

how is all of that defend-able and how is it adding any value except alienating other posters? i cannot believe you are ok with it want to take your frustration out on her in this way...........

anyway..i am done janab....everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion....if guys feel ok wiith this behavior then obviously something is wrong with me and i am at a wrong place..thx

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Re: The Name-Calling, Slandering, and our sense of Morality

PCG that does not mean we start hurling abuses and bad language, personal attacks on political forums .. it only fosters toxic fights among posters ...i understand it is a symbol of frustration but that is not the right way..

attack them as much as you want in political context...i have no problem criticizing and bashing IK, Nawaz, Zardari, Altaf for their policies, statements, vision, corruption whatever it is..but i do have problem attacking shabazz all the time for his marriages, IK for his old scandals, BB for her old liberal pics and what not...that is all