"The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

[Seminole]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

@ravage

Statistics reflect practicality. Muslims are not one Ummah in any way that would affect statistics, and you cannot point to any significant actions taken by all Muslim countries together that would influence those statistics (presuming those are education, science, poverty level etc) . To argue the ummah concept is wrong using statistics that dont reflect the Ummah (since it doesnt exist in practice) but a grouping of individual countries is misleading.

I don't think the ummah concpet is wrong based on statistics. Muslim governments, associations, etc do not act in unison and are very un-ummah like. So the reason for low educational levels, etc are for other reasons.

Like Muslims being obsessed with religion for religion's sake - thinking earth is an undesirable outpost on the way to jannah. No reason to get much accomplished here, is there? Other reasons - not adopting modern economic principles, living in the past, not working well with others.

[ravage]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

@Seminole

I don’t think the ummah concpet is wrong based on statistics. Muslim governments, associations, etc do not act in unison and are very un-ummah like. So the reason for low educational levels, etc are for other reasons.

Low education levels amongst? Muslims? Why are you grouping them when the statistics are not based on group action?

You dont HAVE low statistics UNLESS you group them together. Two of the largest (indonesia and malaysia) Muslim countries have high education levels, are quite financially well off and are industrialized (Intel Malaysia is hiring). Other Muslim countries are very well off, but have low education levels (Saudi Arabia). Other Muslims countries have significant research output and scientific development (Pakistan, Malaysia)

Like Muslims being obsessed with religion for religion’s sake - thinking earth is an undesirable outpost on the way to jannah. No reason to get much accomplished here, is there? Other reasons - not adopting modern economic principles, living in the past, not working well with others.

Whatever your viewpoint may be about Muslims and how we obsess about religion, do you agree that your earlier comment…

You know why Muslims are failing today as so many threads seem to be addressing? Because of the absurd notion that all Muslims belong to the same group. No group of 1 billion + people will ever unite as one people.

…stands corrected?

[Seminole]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

[quote]
Low education levels amongst? Muslims? Why are you grouping them when the statistics are not based on group action?
[/quote]
As per my previous post, they are grouped together because of very similar interprations of religion. Your 2 examples that buck the trend are perhaps because they are less entrenched in the reasons I gave.

The rest of your post is talking in circles. I never said or meant to imply that the ancient interpretation of Islam isn't pretty much world wide. It doesn't mean that I believe they can or should unite as one people.

BTW, it's not so much my viewpoint that Muslims obsess about religion as it is almost every poster in this forum.

[ravage]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

@seminole

*Muslim governments, associations, etc do not act in unison and are very un-ummah like. So the reason for low educational levels, etc are for other reasons. *

@seminole

You know why Muslims are failing today as so many threads seem to be addressing? Because of the absurd notion that all Muslims belong to the same group. No group of 1 billion + people will ever unite as one people

Im the one talking in circles? Only one of the above statements can be held to be true. Which one would you like to retract seminole?

[Seminole]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

What I’d like to retract is the time wasted I’ve spent responding to your posts.

There is absolutely nothing contradicting about those posts. One actually validates the other. Muslims don’t act in unison but pretend they do or should.

Muslim governments, associations, etc do not act in unison because contrary to indiviudual Muslims beliefs, it is not possible to have 1 billion worldwide followers have similar interests. In other words, Muslims say “we are one” but in reality the can’t and don’t act as one.

[ravage]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

[quote]

One actually validates the other.

[/quote]

no it doesnt. you cited statistics that you acknowledge are the consequence of Muslim governments, associations etc which you again acknowledge are not acting like the Ummah. When you cited those statistics you were arguing that the belief in Muslim Ummah was their cause.

[Seminole]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

Here's my last attempt. The statistics were not cited because of Muslim governments, associations etc working together. They dont. We all know that.

So it's not the belief in the ummah that's the cause, but rather an uncompromising, ancient interpretation of Islam that is prevailent thoughout the Muslim wolrd - thinking earth is an undesirable outpost on the way to jannah, not adopting modern economic principles, living in the past, not working well with others. Which does **not **indicate a united ummah but the fact that Islam has not gone through a period of enlightenment as have other religions.

[ravage]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

@Seminole

Here’s my last attempt. The statistics were not cited because of Muslim governments, associations etc working together. They dont. We all know that.

So it’s not the belief in the ummah that’s the cause, but rather an uncompromising, ancient interpretation of Islam …

Ah but unfortunately when you mentioned the statistics you werent making a point about the ancient interpretation of Islam that doesnt adopt modern economic principles and so on, because this topic is about the Muslim Ummah’s uniqueness, and your post was completely about the absurdity of the Muslim ummah and not the economic principles prevalent in different Muslim countries. You specifically said THE reason for the problems in the Muslim world are because they believe they are one people and 1 billion people can never unite. Here:

You know why Muslims are failing today as so many threads seem to be addressing? Because of the absurd notion that all Muslims belong to the same group. No group of 1 billion + people will ever unite as one people.

The rest of your potshots at Muslims I wont go into, since theyre mostly diversionary cover.

[Cher]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

@RashGuy

^^

For your kind information, Americans have not declared all muslims to be terrorists. Thousands of muslims are staying in US and are leading very peaceful lives. It is only the hatemongers that we all have a problem against. Americans have never claimed to be part of the ummah or have claimed superiority over other people. They are just a country with their own faults.

Those who think what America is doing to the rest of the world is for the just cause, must be as stupid as it gets. America is trying to finish off the whole muslim population, unless of course Muslims accept American way of life and accept Americans as thier Masters. What Muslims need to do to find thier place and some dignity, they should stop forcing thier religious belief onto the rest of the word. It only seems non-sense of Muslims to think they are the chosen people of God and the rest of the word is to burn in Hell. It seems to me that Muslims are already burning in Hell at this very moment because of thier Blind Faith in religion which is not compatible with the current Multiculturalism which is the norm in todays situation.

[Afridi786]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

^Muslims forcing their beliefs on the world?

[saavan]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

''The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind''

YA ..BUT UNIQUE IN TERRORISM, INEQUALITY, INJUSTICE, SUPPRESSION OF WOMEN AND MINORITIES, SLAVERY. TRAFIKING OF HUMAN, INTOLERANCE, LAWLESSNESS, POLYGAMY, NOT ACCEPTING OTHERS FAITH...CAN U DENY ANYTHIN?
BUT STILL
The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind

[Sadiyah]

Re: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique ummah among the whole of mankind:

smma59, could you please state the purpose of your initial post? I don't quite see this thread fitting under Religion forum. Clarification from you would help me move it to a more appropriate forum or perhaps leave it in Religion forum.