The messiah has arrived! a complete essay about the truth!

Dear fellow members,
This essay is about the truth! please note that this essay contains not even a single word by ME or any Ahmedi, but is solely based on 10 chapters of KORAN AND HADITH, and their interpretation by PIOUS muslims, ( sunnis and shias ) as well as neutral non-muslims.

Now it wont be acceptable, that your own muslim sunni scholars, who told these things, woh to musalmaan kay musalmaan hee reh gaye, aur hum, jinhon nay un ki bat maani, woh kaafir!

========================================================

The messiah has finally arrived!

========== Chapter 1: The promise!

" It is He, who has sent His messenger with the guidance, and the religion of truth, so that He may uplift it above every religion, though the unbelievers be averse."
( The koran, Chpater 61, the ranks, verse 10 )

++ For sunnis:

→ “haza inda khuroojil mahdi”
(this eminance will be in the time of Mehdi)
tafseer hazrat ibn-e-jareer

→ “wa zaalika inda nuzoole eesa ibne maryama”
( that this eminence will be in the time of jesus, son of mary )
tafseer jamia-ul beyaan volume 29

++ For shias:

→ “nazalat fil qaa’imi min aale muhammad”
( that this verse is about the “alqa’im” )
bahaar ul anwaar volume 13, page 13

→ “muraad az rasool-e-dareen ja imam mahdi mo’ood ast”
( that in this verse, the “rasool” means the promised mehdi )
ghaayatul maqsood, volume 2, page 123

++ For non muslims:

→ hindus:

as translated from hindi:
" Hindus say that a prophet, ( brahma nish klank awwtaar ) will come. Muslims say that imam mehdi will come. Sikhs believe that a prophet ( kalki awwtaar ) will come, and christians say that jesus will descend. Now what is to be found is, will all these people come seperately? or will they be a same person? The answer is, they will be the same! "
( swaami bhola naath jee, satt yak september 1941 page 13 )

→ Sikhs:

as translated from punjabi:
“marda asked, guru jee, will there be someone like “bhaggat kabeer”? Guru nanak jee replied, yes marda, a man will come 100 years after us gurus.”
( janam saakhi, bhai baala waali waddi sakhi, page 251 )

→ Bible:

“For as the lightning cometh to the east, and shineth even to the west; so shall also the coming of the son of man be.” (Matthew 24:27)

========== Chapter 2: No physical descent of jesus

“I did not say to them aught, save what Thou didst enjoin me with: ‘That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord’, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst CAUSE ME TO DIE , Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things”
( the koran, chapter 5, the table spread, verse 117 )

The second advent of Jesus, will be a in the person of an Imam Prophet amongst the Muslims (Bukhari, Volume 2, page 411)

++ For sunnis:

→ Imam sirajuddin ibne alori:

“wa kalut firqahum min nuzooli eesa khurooju rajulin yashbahu eesa filfazle washsharfe kamaa yuqaalu lirrijulil khair e malakun walishshari yar shaitaanun tashbeehun behemaa walaa yurdul aghyaanu”
( that some have said, that from the descent of jesus, it means the coming of such a person who is, in fazl and sharf, similar to jesus, just as a pious man is called an angel, and a naughty man is called the satan. ) -khareedatul ajaaib o fareedatul gharaaib, page 214.

→ Shaikhul mashaaikh, Hazrat muhammad akram sabri ( may allah’s mercy be with him):

as translated from persian:
" Sometimes, the spirituality of those who reach perfection, creates such impact on them, that it becomes the “fa’il” of the “af’aal” of those before. The Sufis regard attaining such a level as “barooz”. It is a belief, that the spirit of jesus, peace be upon him, will perform a “barooz” into the mehdi. This is the meaning of “descent of jesus”. It is in accordance with the hadith “there is no mehdi except jesus”." -iqtasaabul anwaar, page 52.

→ Shaikhul mutasawwifeen, Hazrat Mohayyudeen ibn-e-arabi (may allah’s mercy be with him):

“wajaba nozoolohu fee aakhirizzamaanit ba’ahuqihee babadanin”
( Its is compulsory, that the descent of messiah, jesus, son of mary, will be in another body ) - tafseer araisal beyaan volume 1 page 262

++ For Shias:

→ Hazrat alaama meebzi:

“meebazi dar sharah-deewaan aawarda ke rooh eesa dur mehdi alaihisalaam, barooz kand o nazool-e-eesa, ibaarat izee barooz ast”
( that allama meebzi says in sharah-deewan, that the spirit of jesus will decsend in mehdi, peace be upon him, and the “descent of jesus” actually means the coming of mehdi ) – ghaayatul maqsood, page 21

========== Chapter 3: The messiah and the Mehdi are the same

"lal mahdi illa eesa"

( there is no mehdi, except jesus )

as narrated in

  1. Muslim, volume 2, page 515
  2. Ibne maja, baab shuddahuzamaan, page 257
  3. kanz ul amaal, volume 7, page 156

++ For sunnis:

→ " yo shako man aasha minkum anyalqa eesabne maryama imamun madiyan "
( soon, those of you who are alive, will meet jesus son of mary, when he is the imam mehdi )
masand-e-ahmad ben hanbal, volume 2, page 421

++ For shias:

→ “behaar ul anwaar” quotes abu-l dardaa narrating:
“ashbahunaas e be’eesaabne maryama”
( that imam mahdi will be like jesus son of mary, more than any other human )

++ From bible:

→ “And his deicples asked him, saying, why then say the scribes that Elias must first come. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you that Elias is come already… Then the diciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.” (Matthew 17:10-13)

============= Chapter 4: The promised messiah is a prophet

" O Children of Adam! If there should come to you, messengers from among you, relating my signs to you, then whosoever is godfearing, and makes amends- no fear shall be on them, niether shall they sorrow. And those that deny our signs, and wax proud against them- those shall be the inhabitants of fire, therein dwelling forever"
( the koran, chapter 7, the battlements, verse 36 )

“The Promised Messiah, the prophet of allah… the prophet of allah…the prophet of allah… the prophet of allah…”
( being adrressed four times as the prophet of allah )

  • Muslim, volume 2, baab zikre dajaal, page 515

“awwhi allaho ila eesa ibne maryama”
( that the promised messiah will be given “wahi” by allah )
this has been narrated in:

  1. Muslim, volume 2 page 411
  2. mashquaat page 473

++ For sunnis:

→ Allama ibne hejr al hathimi ( may allah’s mercy be with him ):

“na’am, yoohayi alaihe wahyun haqeeqiyun kama fee hadeesi mulem”
( Yes, Allah will give real “wahi” to him, as is told in the hadith of muslem )

  • roohul ma’aani volume 7 page 65

→ Nawaab sadeeq hussaib khan sahab:

“maseeh mo’ood pur jibraeel khuda ki taraf say wahi laye ga”
( Gibrael will bring the “wahi” from allah to the promised messiah )

  • jajjul karaama page 431

++ For Shias:

→ imam abu jaafar ( may allah’s mercy be with him )

“wa yohiyaa ilaihe fa ya’malu bil wahi be amarillah”
(that imam mehdi will be given “wahi” and he will act upon it)
this has been related in:

  1. bahaar ul anwaar volume 13, page 200
  2. najmussaqib volume 1, page 66

============= Chapter 5: The time of Messiah:

“He directs the affair from heaven to earth, then it goes back upto him in a day, whose measure is a thousand years of your counting.”
( the koran, chapter chapter 32, verse 6)
( note that 300 years of the better of times (Bukhari vol.4) together with this 1000 years makes 1300 years)

“When 1,240 years pass, God will raise Mahdi.”
(An Najmus Saqib, Vol. 2 pg. 209)

+++++++++ Muslim scholars:

→ Hazrat shah waliullah, muhaddis e dehlwi, may allah’s mercy be with him:

“allamni rabbi jalla jalaaluhu annal qayaamata qadiqtarabat walmahdiyyu tahayya 'a lilkhurooje”
( My allah, glory be to him, has told me that doom is about to fall, and mehdi is about to come ) - tafheemaate ilaahiya volume 2, page 123

→ Imam hazrat mullah ali qari, may allah’s mercy be with him:

“wayahtamilu anyyakoonal laamu filmaa’ateeni lilba’di ay ba’adal maa’ateeni ba’adal alfe wa howa waqto zuhooril mahdiyi”
( that the hadith shows that the two centuries of the promised messiah will be counted after 1000 years after the migration, so the signs will come 1200 years after migration, and that is the time of the coming of messiah )

→ Hazrat gulab shah of jamaalpur, may allah’s mercy be with him:

“Jesus, who was to descend, has born”
( - nishaane aasmaani, page 21, 1278 years hijri)

→ hazrat khwaja hassan nizami:

" it is not strange that this might be the time, and in 1330 years hijri, The imam mehdi may come. And if he does not come now, then in 40 years hijri, he will surely come, because if we compare the prophecies of pious men, they all agree to it."
( zahoor imam mehdi aakhiruz zamaan, the last page )

→ Abu-al khair, nawaab noorulhassan:

“Imam mehdi should have come in the 13th century, but this century has ended, and mehdi did not come. Now fourteenth century comes, hopefully allah will show his mercy upon us, and imam mehdi might come within four to six years.”
( iqtaraabus sa’ata page 221 )

→ Shaikh mohayyudeen ibne arabi, may allah’s mercy be with him:

“wa zohoorohu yakoonu mimba’ade maziyyee “khay” “fay” “jeem” minul hijrati”
( Imam mehdi will come after the passing of “khay” “fay” “jeem” after “hijrat” )

  • muqaddama ibne khaldoon page 354

( “hijrat” = “hay” “jeem” “ray” “tay” = 400 + 200 + 3 + 5 = 608
“khay” + “fay” + “jeem” = 600 + 80 + 3 = 683
608 + 683 = 1291 years hijri )

+++++++ Non muslims sources:

→ Bible:

“..who waits, and comes after 1335 days”
( old testament, Daniel, 12/9-12 )

→ J. B. dumbell:

“The new era, all the nine methods in both the diagrams is 5892 1/2, which is our 1898 1/4”
( J. B. dumbell, “the appointed time” published london, 1896 page 16 )

→ Baba guru nanak of sikhs:

“aawan athatray jaan sataanway hor wee uthsi mard ka chela”
( that between 1878 to 1897, there will come, a follower of a special man )

  • grunth sahab, tung mahalla, page 127

================ Chapter 6: The place of the Mehdi:

"an ansin raziallahu anhu qaala: “qaala rasoolallahe sallalaahu alaihe wassallam isaabatun taghzul hinda wa hayi takoonu ma’al mahdismohu Ahmadu”
( that prophet mohammad said, A group will struggle in India, and will be with the Mahdi, and the mahdi’s name will be “Ahmad”) -rawaahul Bokhari, fee tareekhehi

“qaala rasoolallahe sallalaahu alaihe wassallama yakhruju naasun minal mashriq, fa yootinoonal mahdi ya’ani sultaanahu”
( that prophet mohammad said, Such people will come out from the east, who will make way for the Mahdi, who will be their king )

  • narrated by:
  1. Abu daud, volume 2, baab khuroojul mahdi
  2. Ibne maja, egyptian, page 519
  3. bahaarul anwaar book 13 page 21

“Qala rasoolullah e sallalaaho alaihe wassalama isabatana min ummatihra humallaha minunnaare isaabatun taghzulhinda wa isaabatun takoonu ma’a eesa ibne maryama ilaihe”
( that prophet mohammad said, There are two groups in my “ummah” whom allah has freed from fire. One which performs struggle in India, and the one who is with the messiah )

  • narrated by:
  1. nassai volume page 52, baab ghazwatul hind
  2. masand e ahmad ben hanbal, volume 5, page 78

“lo kaanal eemaanu mu’allakun bissurayya lanaalahu rajulun awrajaalun min haa’olaa’e”
( that even if the faith goes up to the “surayya” a person from his place (pointing to salman farsi) will come to restore it.)

  1. Bokhari, kitaabul tafseer, sorah jumma
    also narrated in:
  2. tafseer-e-saafi, under the related verse of surah jumma
  3. tafseer-e-majmaul bayaan, volume 3, page 426
  4. tafseer-e-umdatul bayaan, volume 2, page 565
    and many others.

++ For sunnis:

→ A narration says:
" yukhrijul mahdiyya minal qaryati yuqaalu laha kada’atun "
( that the promised mehdi will come from the town of ka’da’a (qadiaan) )

  • jawaahirul asraar page 56

→ Another narration says:
“the coming mahdi will be from karasaan”
-narrated by:

  1. massand e ibne hanbal
  2. kanzul a’maal volume 7, page 176
  3. jajjul karaama, page 358

→ A narration:
“the mehdi will come in qahtaan”

  • kanzal amaal volume 7, page 188

→ Sufi hazrat gulaab shah:
“jesus, who had to come, has born, and is in kadiaan”

  • nishaane aasmani, page 21, in 1278 years hijri.

++ For Shias:

→ Abu sa’eed khanum :

about his "kashaf in which he met imam mehdi:
" kullu zaalika beqalaamil hinde "
thus proving that Mehdi must be from India.

  • saafi sharah asool kaafi, volume 2, page 304

------- Non muslims sources:

→ Bible:

“For as the lightning cometh to the east, and shineth even to the west; so shall also the coming of the son of man be.”
(Matthew 24:27) the same topic addressed in Isaiah 41:1-2

→ Baba guru nanak of sikhs:

" then marda asked, where? in this same country? the guru said, yes marda, “wataalay thay pargannay wich hosee”."
( janam saakhi, bhai bala wali waddi saakhi, page 251 )

============= Chapter 7: The acute need of messiah:

— Sunnis:

→ Janaab sayyed abu-l alaa Modoodi:

" Many people seek a such a man for uplifting the religion, who is a picture of perfection in their thought. Although they agree by tongue, in the finality of religion, and is someone talks about prophecy, they are ready to pull out his tongue, but within themselves, they ask for a prophet. And no one wants to accept less than a prophet!"
( tarjumaan alquraan, december 1942, page 4 to 6 )

" Intellect asks, and nature wants, the speed of the changing affairs of the world demands, that a leader should born…His name is “the Imam mehdi”, the prophecies about whom, are present in the sayings of prophet mohammad."
( tajdeed o ahyaa-e-deen page 530 )

— Shias:

→ Sayyed mohammad abbas qamar zaidi alwaasti:

“The nature of the world demands, and intellect bears witness, that there must be a presence of “hujjatullah”. No matter he is in the form of a prophet or in the form of an imam. The world can not stay empty of the presence of imam… It is because of this reason, that even the wise germans say, there must be a “superman” to save the world.”
( asaar-e-kayamat o zahoore hijjat page 17 18 )

→ alshaikh ali asghar albaro-jarwy:

“O allah, send the imam mehdi soon. This verse ( 61:10 ) is a proof over his coming. It has been 1275 years since hijrat, and the religion of Mohammad has not yet become eminent over all other religions…It is needed, that allah lifts someone pious person from within muslims and the “aale mohammad” , so that he unites all religions and bring them to the religion of Mohammad. And take away all other religions from the surface of the earth, otherwise it would mean that allah lied, and saying this is “kufr”.”
( noorul anwaar page 179, 180 )

— Hindus:

→ " We need bhagwaan krishna now, more than we needed him in the time of “maha bharat”…Since the last 1000 years, such evils have descended in the world, that no such example can be found in the history of the world. But in the twentieth century, the social decay and political downfall has increased to the maximum. If Bhagwaan made a true promise, then today is, when a prophet is needed the most. So dear bhagwaan krishna, come! take birth! Clean away the evil from the world, and spread religion."
( teej- delhi 18th august 1930 )

→ " The world today is a picture of inferior beastly life.. and the world, seeking an end to such fearful condition of the people, is wishing for a prophet to come."
(daily Indian, calcutta, 14th october 1900 )

– Christians:

The acute need of messiah has been addresses in the following christian books:

  1. The appointed time ( published: london, 1896 )
  2. His glorious appearing ( published: london )
  3. Christs second coming ( page 15 )
  4. The coming of the Lord ( page 1 )
  5. Daily “freethinker”, london, 7th October 1900.

============ Chapter 8: The claim of the Messiah:

O people! i am the mohammad’s messiah, and Ahmad, the mehdi."

“Whoso believes in allah, and believes in the truth of prophet mohammad, peace be upon him, for him is it enough, to hear this from my mouth, and accept, and for those are bold, and fear not, what is their solution? Allah will make them understand. so i want you, to fear god, and to analyse this, and advise your friends, that when regarding me, should not be quick in decisions, but with a noble intention, think about it with a neutral mind.”
( mirza ghulam ahmed of qadian )

========== Chapter 9: A Glorious sign:

------> The promise:

→ the koran:

" ‘When shall be, the day of resurrection?’ But when the sight is dazed, and the moon is eclipsed, and the sun and the moon will be brought together.that is the day when men will wither to escape."
( the koran, Chapter 75, the resurrection, verse 7,8,9,10,11 )

→ the bible:

“Behold the day of the Lord commeth… the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.”
“Immediatly after tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light… and then shall appear the signs of the son of man in heaven.”
as narrated in

  1. (Matthew 24:29-30)
  2. ( Mark 13:24 )
  3. ( Luke 21:25 )

→ prophet mohammad:

“For our mahdi there are two signs which have never occured since the creations of the heavens and the earth. A double eclipse in which the moon will be eclipsed on the first of the possible months of Ramadhan, and the the sun will be eclipsed in the middle of the possible months of Ramadhan.” (Dar Qutni, Sunan, volume 1 page 188.)

→ Pious muslim shia and sunni scholars:

  1. al fataadaa al hadisia, page 31
  2. jajjul karaama, page 344
  3. aqaaide islaam, page 182, 183
  4. iqtaraabul sa’at, page 106, 107
  5. ahwaalul aakhirat, page 23
  6. qayaamat naama faarsi,
  7. akmaaluddeen, page 368
  8. maktoobaat imam rabbani mujaddad aleph sani, volume 2, page 132
  9. bahaarul anwaar, volume 13 page 58
  10. qaseeda-e-zahoor e mehdi page 41
  11. hikmat-e-baalegha, page 409

-----> the fulfillment:

( This prophecy was respectfully fulfilled in the Eastern hemesphere with the lunar eclipse on the 13th of Ramadhan, 1311 hijiri, and the solar eclipse on the 28th of the month 1311 hijiri.
Speaking in the Chrisitan Calendar tense it was fulfilled with the solar eclipse on March 21st 1894, Thursday evening, and the lunar on April 6th, 1894 on Friday morning, both of course in the same month of Ramadhan. the western hemisphere experienced the lunar eclipse on 11th march 1895, and solar eclipse on 26th march 1895. )

Reference:

  1. Daily Azaad, 4th may, 1894
  2. Daily Civil and military gazette, 18th april 1894

------> The only claimer:

" It is a sign of the promissed mehdi, that allah will show such signs in the sky, that there will be a lunar eclipse in the first of its specific dates, and a solar eclipse in the middle one of its specific dates. And both the solar and lunar eclipse will take place in ramadan.
As a sign, the solar and the lunar eclipse have taken place in my times. "
( mirza ghulam ahmed of qadian, in “chashma ma’arfat” page 314 )

------> Those who reject:

"Those who reject Our Signs and turn away from them with disdain the gates of spiritual firmament will not be opened for them nor will they enter heaven until the camel goes through the eye of a needle. And thus do We requite the offenders. "
( the koran, chapter 7, verse 40)

============== Chapter 10: The Ahmadiyya truth.

—> Ali (ra) said:
“Mahdi Maoud will be colored with the Mohammadiyya glory, and will have the Ahmadiyya wealth.”
(Yanabaiul Muwadat part 3, page, 58)

—> Hadhrat Muhammad bin Faris Misri, may allah’s mercy be upon him, said:
“Our scholar will be a prophet; and from among those who call towards the truth; he will have the station of messengership; and our A’arif will be in the Ahmadi period, will be from among those who have strong determination, and will receive greatness.”
(Al Maddad, Al Faidh page 38)

—> Hazrat mulla ali qari, may allah’s mercy be upon him, said:
“so among seventy three sects all of them will be in fire and the sect deserving paradise will be the one which will have the Mohammadiyya glory, and will be following the holy “Ahmadiyya” practices.”
(Maktaba Imdadiyya Multan page 248)

—> Hadhrat Mujaddid Alif Thani, may allah’s mercy be upon him, said:
"Around one thousand and some years after the sad demise of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him), the Muhammadiyya truth will ascend from its station and will unite with the place of the truth of ka’aba. At that time the muhammadiyya truth will be called “the ahmadiyya truth”.
(Mabda’a Maud)


So be on watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke
covering the people; this is a painful chastisement. ‘O our lord remove thou from us, the chastisement; we are believers.’ How should they have the reminder? seeing a clear Messenger has already come to them, then they turned away from him, and said,’ A man, tutored, possessed!"
( the koran, verse 11-14, chapter 44, Smoke, the nuclear explosion.)

Bismihi Ta'la
Assalam o alaikum

a few comments,

  1. the book Yanibal mawaddah, by the mufti of Constantinople, Qundoozi Hanafi, infact is a testament to the 12th Imam of the Ithna Ashari (known as shias). if you ponder over the many chapters that span over the work, it specifies exactly who the Mahdi is, and he is the son of Imam Hasan al Askari [a], the 11th Imam from the lineage of the Prophet (peace and benedictions from him). if you would browse through the book it is made amply clear. for your benefit i was told that this book is now translated in utdu as well.

  2. you also cited Ibn al Arabi. well he also believes that the Mahdi is infact the twelth Imam [a] of the Ithna Ashari, and cites the lineage starting from Imam Ali [a] till the father of Imam Mahdi [a], Imam Hasan al Askari [a] who is the eleventh Imam. this is in his futoohat al makiyya. recent new versions of this work have suffered tahrif (distortion) and the lineage has been taken out, even though older editions still carry it.

  3. and then Bihar al Anwar. i am sure that that you have never seen this work [or any of the above works] for that matter. there is a seperate volume to the life of the twelth Imam, Imam Mahdi [a], where he entails the birth, the life and the lineage of this noble man. this work spans to more than 150 + vols, for your information.

lastly if you are familiar with the collection of bihar al anwar, it was simply a collection by the late Majlisi, and he infact then wrote a seperate treatise to sort out the weak from the authentic hadiths. care to share that with us as well, since the burden of proof lies on you.

as to the comments and notes from the ahlal sunna works, since you have them with you, can you site us the complete texts and not just partial quotations. since it has been amply demonstrated that chunks of references quoted of context can be mis-leading as propounded by an Ahmadi, pay heed to your own advice first before expecting us to believe.

i find it rather funny, that you quote the shia scholars and their works, without even realizing their own beliefs, whose very acceptance negates the claim of Mirza saheb altogether. your argument stands valid with the ahlal sunna but not with the shia, lest you realize what their beliefs are. the ahlal sunna have been victims to their oppressive and tyrant rulers and as such traditions in favor of the mahdi were fabricated and distorted, since he did represent the epitome of the struggle between those who were oppressed and those who were oppressors. sheer political developments have rendered this and many other beliefs of the ahlal sunna to the altar of political expediency.

i expect more of a scholarly appreciation of citation of references rather than half hearted quotes, if there has to be some element of credibility. if you want to reduce it to polemics, then so be it.

Regards

Abbas Ali

Regarding the Essay,

Most of the quotes you and sources you have given here are not from qualified Scholars of Fiqh from any of the Four Schools of Thought which could be accepted by followers of the sunnah. Those reputable sources you have quoted have been used out of context to try to prove the validity of your argument. Mr Insignificance, Fiqh is a very exact and thorough science. Were the claims of the Mirza really true do you really think that all the major schools of thought (Sunni and Shia) could have declared Ahmedis outside the pale of Islam? Remember this is a religion which has accepted Sufis, Barelwis, Wahabbis, etc.

To expose the sketchy and misleading nature of your totally unprovable quotes will take some time and will probably need a separate thread for each one. I will start with Chapter 9 "A Glorious Promise". It will be under a sparate subject heading.

Jewels started this thread by saying

[quote]
This essay is about the truth!
[/quote]
.WRONG!. IT IS ALL LIES AND MANIPULATED TRUTH. First he quotes a QURANIC AYAT where he has given wrong ayat number. The correct ayat number is 9 not 10. Perhaps AHMADI QURAN has it under 10. Then under its TAFSEER he quotes two of the known sunni scholars and surprisingly does not misquote them. Well can anybody explain where do these 2 SUNNI scholars have stated that this ayat was revealed in honor of MAHDI(peace be upon him) and not Mohammad(peace be upon him)?. I suppose he did not take the time to read the entire tafseer of these two scholars since it would have badly damaged his postition by stating that this ayat is revealed in honor of MOHAMMAD (peace be upon him) AND NOT MAHDI(peace be upon him). They say and I repeat repeat they say that "the eminence will be in the time of Mahdi". Yes. Mahdi will appear as an UMMATI(follower) of Mohammad and will be used by Allah as the means of fulfilling the promise of the ayat. Speaking of which, as you Ahmadis claim MIRZA AS MAHDI, then why didn't Allah's promise was fulfilled in his time. The ayat you have quoted has a translation
[quote]
" It is He, who has sent His messenger with the guidance, and the religion of truth, so that He may uplift it above every religion, though the unbelievers be averse."
( The koran, Chpater 61, the ranks, verse 10). I deliberately highlighted the word "UPLIFT" to make my meaning clear. My friend MIRZA has only served to make a mockery of ISLAM. How did he help in uplifting it?. ISLAM has always been above all religions. Even prior to MIRZA arrival ISLAM has been higher than all religions. Mirza has created a schism in Islam that has damaged its unity. And now the people who have been following this deen for centuries even before Mirza existed have to face humiliating remarks from Ahmadis who never existed prior to this century. What a sorrow!.

[This message has been edited by iqadeer (edited April 22, 1999).]

Dear abbas,
I am sorry, but you you are right when you claim that i have very low knowledge on the books i quoted. These quotations were provided to me, from an ahmedi friend who had converted from shia-ism. I wanted to put some more time on this essay. the basic thing i wanted to prove was that, prophet mohammad made very strong prophecies about the coming mahdi. These were agreed upon, by the earlier ulema, but later on, the beliefs somehow got distorted, and have now finally become so from being alike. However, there must be something common between them, as they have evolved from a single belief. that was exactly what i was trying to prove. But as you know, this could take a very long time. I wanted to give it as much time it could take, and finally come up with something. I made numerous requests to i qadeer, to wait till i complete it, and THEM make a decision. Hescornfully declined my requests, and i had to write this in a hurry.

Dear extreme, i qadeer,

1) The "major school of thoughts" of islam, who rejected mirza ghulam ahmed's claim, are 72 in number, and fulfill the prophecy of 72 sects verses 1 jam'at, the 1 being true! You people are arguing that 72 are true and 1 is false! which is against the ptophecy of prophet mohammad!

2) the books and scholars i have quoted, CAN NOT BE considered "weak" at all. Every neutral sunni knows that these were the most authentic quotes and narrations possible, and included such scholars like mujaddid aleph saani and mulah ali qari.
And what about the verses of the koran and the clear, and "saheeh-as-declared-by-sunnis" ahadith? Were they un authentic too?

3) As for whether it was verse number 9 or verse number 10, Dear i qadeer, if you have some spare time, and read about koran, you will find out, that your "ulema" are in a fight! some say bismillah is a seperate verse in each surah, while others argue that bismillah is not a seperate verse. So if you consider bismillah a seperate verse, then it makes it verse number 10, otherwise 9.
Note that this showed the lack of pateince on the part of i qadeer, who couldve very well sorted this out by talking to someone learened. This however makes clear how much i qadeer knows about the koran.

4) some of you were also complaining that these quotes are out of context. After what you people have been doing recently, such allegations show shamelessness more than concern. However, these can be tested in any sunni book about the arrival of messiah! i have tried hard to only put on such quotes which are short, and independant of context in their original form.

========

To end, i have now posted THE MOST AUTHENTIC NARRATIONS POSSIBLE and have made clear proofs from koran and hadith!

This essay, i repeat was all made up of NON AHMEDI writings, and well if you people want to argue, then argue with your ancesstors!

Molvi ko ziada pata hai, aur allah ko ( naoozubillah) thora! Molvi ko ziada pata hai, aur imam bokhari ko thora! Molvi ko ziada pata hai, aur mujaddad aliph saani ko thora!! is that what you people are trying to say?


So be on watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke
covering the people; this is a painful chastisement. 'O our lord remove thou from us, the chastisement; we are believers.' How should they have the reminder? seeing a clear Messenger has already come to them, then they turned away from him, and said,' A man, tutored, possessed!"
( the koran, verse 11-14, chapter 44, Smoke, the nuclear explosion.)

Jewels,
I admit I had not known the fact about the difference of opinion regarding the Bismillah, therefore I appreciate your correction. I have read your entire post and I do not have the time or the inclination to verify their authenticity. I take your word for it. Regarding the question if Mahdi and Eesa are same there is difference of opinion and I tend to lean towards their being seperate personalities. The hadiths about the location of Mahdi do not clearly indicate where Mahdi will appear. They only say he will be helped by people from India. Other locations are very vague such as "karasaan". I beleive muslims need Mahdi now more than ever. Therefore, I reject the idea of Mahdi having come and gone already without having achieved the purpose he was sent for. Also, I do not see why would any of the people mentioned specially Maudoodi Saheb have Mirza as the prime candidate in their minds while describing the need for a leader. Besides, Maudoodi wrote a complete treatise proving the finality of prophethood Vs the Ahmadi doctrine. Mr Xtreme has already answered the fallacy about the signs of Mahdi's arrival in another thread therefore I do not need to address them. The last section misuses the word Ahmadiyya and we all know from authentic hadith that Mohammad (peace be upon him) was also known as Ahmad. Therefore the use of word Ahmadiyya by Qadianis is another way to fool innocent people. Besides Mirza is known as Mirza Ghulam Ahmad which denotes slave of Ahmad not just Ahmad. This point is also debatable.

Dear i qadeer,

First of all, i highly appreciate the fact that you take my word for the authenticity of the above sources. Dear friend, i would certainly like to manifest that my sole purpose behind posting these essays is to stop people like mr. extreme to knowingly distort the facts. If i am wrong in my religious beliefs, i would highly appreciate you to correct me. But for that, we need to talk about koran and hadith! you must have noted that mr. Extreme did not reply to my thread "can the truth be changed" only because he can not prove his point from koran!
Similarly, while replying to the "a glorious sign", the eclipses, he pasted someone's essay on the authenticity of the narration of imam baqir, but he TOTALLY failed to reply to the koranic verse, and the supporting biblical verses. Nor did he have any answer to the list of authentic sunni and shia books which supported the prophecy of the eclipses. All these people know is to negate whatever truth we speak! but in doing that, they find NO SUPPORT from koran. This is evident from the posts of mr. extreme. If you want, i can arrange for those books which mr. extreme has mentioned in his quotes, and you will yourself find out that no such quotes were presented in the original books.

The fact is, it is easy to put on false quotes and give the names of books which dont contain them. But it is impossible to associate lies to the koran! that is why mr. extreme has been so weak about koran.

I beleive muslims need Mahdi now more than
ever. Therefore, I reject the idea of Mahdi
having come and gone already without having
achieved the purpose he was sent for.

My dear friend, i know how it feels, because i have been thru this. I know its hard to believe that we were waiting for a superman mahdi, and are forced to believe that a medically weak, economically poor man came as a mehdi, was completely rejected by the public, was made attacks on, physically and verbally, and passed away, living a life of sacrifices and pains!

But my friend, also keep in mind, that jews rejected their messiah, prophet jesus, because of the SAME REASON!

They were also waiting for someone to arrive from the sky, snd clean everything off:

"And his deicples asked him, saying, why then say the scribes that Elias must first come. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you that Elias is come already..." (Matthew 17:10-13)

Will you use the same reasons to reject your messiah now?
" Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other "
( trimze kitaabul eemaan)

And about jesus and mehdi, you are of opinion that they are two individuals. However, i wouldve appreciated if you wouldve given me enough reason to believe in that! you have not given me any reason to reject the hadith which occurs in THREE VERY RELIABLE books of sunnis:
"lal mahdi illa eesa"
( there is no mehdi, except jesus )

                as narrated in 
                1) Muslim, volume 2, page 515
                2) Ibne maja, baab shuddahuzamaan, page 257
                3) kanz ul amaal, volume 7, page 156

About the eclipses, i have replied to mr. extreme, so you can view that discussion and post your own points in that thread.

As for the use of word "ahmadiyya", yes you are right, prophet mohammad was called Ahmed, and that our promised messiah, is a slave of prophet mohammad, and that is why we call ourselves, the ahmadis.
However, what i was trying to say has been misunderstood. please view this saying of mujaddad aleph sani again:
"At that time the muhammadiyya truth will be called "the ahmadiyya truth"."

You will find out, that although prophet mohammad was called Ahmad, THE MUSLIMS WERE NOT CALLED AHMADIS! were they?

when our beloved prophet, peace be upon him came, dunya nay un ka zahoor mohammadiyya rung main dekha, jo jalaali rung hai. maseeh mo'ood kay aanay pur hamaray pyaaray rasool muhammad musatafa ka zahoor jamaali rung main hona tha!
Mujadded aliph sani was a mujaddad of 11th century, and did not know that such a community will be born, who will be called, the ahmadiyya community! he just said what i explained above:

"At that time the muhammadiyya truth will be called "the ahmadiyya truth"."

In the end, i would just say, that i do not know how to charm people, nor do i know how to fight. Although i have been taught to bravely accept physical and emotional pain because of religion, i have never been allowed to retaliate.
So i dont know what to do, how to say it, but i swear upon the almighty allah, whose curse is upon those who lie, I have spent half my life searching for the truth i want, and have finally reached it! I call you to believe in the one who you are waiting for!

Dear i qadeer, have you considered performing an "istakhaara"? i think you should consider it. pray to allah and seek his guidance, and once you leave your affair with allah, he will never lead you astray! right now i have only this thing to prove the truth! ask allah and he never hesitates to show signs to those who seek his guidance!