The Mahdi

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

[quote]
Originally posted by FactFinder:
**
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by a1shah:
**In order for you to unlock the treasures of the qur'an, you need to ask someone who understands the quran, as the qur'an says:

These are none other than the ahl-bait (as) who are the guides for the holy prophet's (pbuh) ummat.

As a sahih hadith in Muslim and Hanbal says, ....**
[/quote]

I agree with your first statement, which is a statement of fact. Your second statement is the contention of shia school of thought only. What you are mis-stating here and then contradicting yourself later by quoting th esahih hadeeth is that the person who understood the Qur'an best was Rasool Allah (sallallaho alaihe wasallam). So it is his Sunnah (the ahadith) that tell us what the Lawgiver wants us to do and how.

**

[quote]
the holy prophet (pbuh) said "I am leaving behind two weighty things, the qur'an and the ahl-bait. Hold to both of them tighty for they will lead you to the fountains of kauser".**
[/quote]

This hadeeth is fabricated and the term ahl-e-bayt is incorrectly applied by shias. The hadith includes 'Qur'an and my Sunnah', which (Sunnah) is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence. Do you have any doubts on this?

And the family of the daughter cannot be ahl-e-bayth. The term covers members of the household and could be stretched to the descendents through sons, not daughters.

**

[quote]
Alas, the majority upheld the holy book only, making up meanings of the verses as it suited their purpose.**
[/quote]

Couldn't be further from the truth.

The majority is known as Sunnah wal Jama'at. Do you know what this means and implies? Don't make statements that are so incorrect, specially in this month as you are exposing yourself to Allah's wrath.

**
[/QUOTE]

FF,

Seems like you do not know your own sahih sources.

Let a shia teach you a little about your books.

Since you did not bother to read through my earlier posts, I will restate some facts.

NONE of your SIHAH SITTAHS contain the hadith regarding the QUR'AN AND SUNNAH.

YOUR SAHIH books like MUSLIM and Hanbali DO CONTAIN the hadith regarding QUR'AN and AHL BAIT.

The hadith about the qur'an and sunnah was related by Abu Huraira and is classified BY SUNNI SCHOLARS as a weak hadith.

THE BOOK in which this hadith is found IS NOT ANY OF YOUR SAHIH BOOKS - your most AUTHENTIC BOOKS after the holy qur'an.

Seems like your sahih scholars were easily fooled by shias, because they have classified the hadith on the qur'an and ahl-bait as authentic.

Remove your covers.

ws

42

[quote]
Originally posted by FactFinder:
**

What you are mis-stating here and then contradicting yourself later by quoting th esahih hadeeth is that the person who understood the Qur'an best was Rasool Allah (sallallaho alaihe wasallam). So it is his Sunnah (the ahadith) that tell us what the Lawgiver wants us to do and how

**
[/quote]

The holy qur'an does not agree with your disposition.

Allah (swt) has ordained a guide for every community to ensure that the Laws of the Almighty (swt) are followed correctly.

The holy qur'an says:

013.007

SHAKIR: You are only a warner and (there is) a guide for every people.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a Warner, and the Imams of his Ahlul-Bayt were each a Guide for the people of their time. In fact, the following Sunni commentators of Quran narrated that the word "Guide" in the above verse was Imam Ali (AS):

Tafsir al-Tabari, v13, p72;
Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, on the commentary of verse 13:7
Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, under verse 13:7 of Quran
Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, p157
Noor al-Absar, by al-Shablanji, p70
Kunooz al-Haqa'iq, by al-Manawi, p42.

Only by following the teachings of the ahl-bait (pbuh) will you be able to follow the EXACT SUNNAH of our holy prophet (pbuh).

ws

43

This shows the Peak of your ignorance.

We are talking about is the ahl-bait of the holy prophet (pbuh) who were declared sinless by verse 33:33 of the holy qur’an.

And here, you are giving examples of syeds in Pakistani movies to prove that the ahl-bait could only be ordinary human beings.

Tell me, should I really be wasting my time with you ?

Learn a bit on Islam first before posting.

44

Wrong again !

From Sahih Muslim:-
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/031.smt.html

Book 031, Number 5955:
'A’isha reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel’s hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said:

Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)<<<

This is exactly verse 33:33 of the holy qur’an.

Truth always prevail.

45

A1shah, We can go into al-bait or you can back your claims and tell us where Imam Mehdi is mentioned in Quran. I am still waiting for you to enlighten us with your version of truth from Al-kafi and other shirk-filled books of yours.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

One other thing, do you believe in the books you are quoting the hadiths from?

Also, since that hadith says that purify the household of the prophet-why then shias curse and defame wives of prophet? Most of the times you people just sink to the lowest level of devils cursing Aishah. If YOU don’t believe in those books, then why quote from those books to prove your point when anything in those books is false to you? Typical shia-syndrom.

Back to Imam Mehdi. I am waiting.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Make sure you keep these things in mind when replying:

When hasan al-aksari died, he did not leave any off-springs. Shias were so confused at that point that many sects emerged from shiaism as a result that what should be done to imamah. All this is reflected shia writer writer Hasan ibn Musa anNawbakti and Saad ibn Abdullah alQumi, they say 14-20 different sects appeared among shias due to this confusion over who will lead imamah when 28 year old hasan al aksari died. And many myths and stories arose from that momment on and you are still deluded in believing those tales and fairies.

Please make sure story you tell us is interesting and plot is logical.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?”-juvenal

46

I did not know. You don't have respect for your mother, why would you have any for wives of Prophet. I was expecting a good come-back from you...oh well. Gutless, shameless...i was right.

You disrespect wives of prophet(saw), thus you disrespect the prophet(saw). You deny the verses in Quraan regarding respecting his wives and Surah noor verse 26,

** Surah Noor 24:26

Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable. ** * Shias say illogically that wives of prophet were bad. Logically, through this verse it proves that if they were bad, then prophet was bad too(if you look at it through shia logic) but he was good man, best ever thus his wives and his friends must be good too. Good person does not have company of bad people, simple logic and verse confirms it. ] *

thus you disrespect prophet there and allah as well. Your love for him and his family is just rhetoric and is a total lie, and production of mass delusions and brainwashings through your so called imams at graves of peers and what have you. You claim you love him and his family but your actions and sayings don't reflect that. You put syed at the end of your name just so that people will consider you better than I am. What can I expect from person who suffers from typical shia syndrom anyway.

Prove your point about Imam mehdi, if you are truthful. Don't tell me what is in your mind or else I will tell you what is in your books that you follow so blindly and ignorantly.

I am not interested in humiliating you even more in front of vast diversity of readers on Gupshup. So, get back to the topic.

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"-juvenal

[This message has been edited by Spanky (edited December 05, 2001).]

47

My ‘Momin’ Brothers and Sisters,

Before taking liberties with the meanings of the translation of 33:33 to prove your beliefs right, please look at these verses:

ALL Translation of meaning by Shakir

[Hud 11:69] And certainly Our messengers came to Ibrahim with good news. They said: Peace. Peace, said he, and he made no delay in bringing a roasted calf.

[Hud 11:70] But when he saw that their hands were not extended towards it, he deemed them strange and conceived fear of them. . They said: Fear not, surely we are sent to Lut’s people

[Hud 11:71] And his wife was standing (by), so she laughed, then We gave her the good news of Ishaq and after Ishaq of (a son’s son) Yaqoub.

[Hud 11:72] She said: O wonder! shall I bear a son when I am an extremely old woman and this my husband an extremely old man? Most surely this is a wonderful thing.

[Hud 11:73] They said: Do you wonder at Allah’s bidding? The mercy of Allah and His blessings are on you, O people of the house, (Ahl al Bait) surely He is Praised, Glorious.

So Allah is referring to Ibrahim’s family as the People of The House.

Let’s see what this House, Bait really is:

[al-Hajj 22:26] And when We assigned to Ibrahim the place of the House, (Bait) saying: Do not associate with Me aught, and purify My House (Baitiya) for those who make the circuit and stand to pray and bow and prostrate themselves

[al-Anfal 8:35] And their prayer before the House (Bait) is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands; taste then the chastisement, for you disbelieved.

So Bait actually is Allah’s House, The Ka’ba.

Now let’s see the backdrop to 33:33.

[al-Ahzab 33:32] O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word.

Who is the audience here? WIVES OF THE PROPHET.

Which one?

Allah doesn’t single out, so we understand it’s ALL of them.

Now Please revisit 33:33 and note that this time Shakir uses “Folk of the Household” for Ahl-al-Bait instead!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif

[al-Ahzab 33:33] And stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah’s wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, (Ahl al Bait) and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.

Surely the translations have been effected by the scholar’s own understanding of history and ahadith.

So it’s clear now that Allah is referring to His House, the Ka’ba, and NOT pointing specifically at the Prophet’s WHOLE extended family, but only addressing ALL his wives, giving them specific instructions in order for them to be cleansed.

Allah Knows Best

These are GOD’s revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?(45:6)

Edited: 10:48 Hours, US Central Time

[This message has been edited by PakistaniAbroad (edited December 05, 2001).]

48

[quote]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
** [Hud 11:73] They said: Do you wonder at Allah's bidding? The mercy of Allah and His blessings are on you, O people of the house, (Ahl al Bait) surely He is Praised, Glorious.

1) So Allah is referring to Ibrahim's family as the People of The House.

Let's see what this House, Bait really is:
2) So Bait actually is Allah's House, The Ka'ba.

Allah Knows Best**
[/quote]

Dear Pakistani Abroad,

Your observation in #1 was correct but then you reversed or confused it by raising issue #2.

QUESTION:
Is Muhammad descendent from Abraham?

Answer:
YES!
Ahle Bayt, then, is Ahle Muhammad who is also Ahle Ibrahim or from the House of Abraham/Ibrahim.

There are many verses that states clearly that Allah will make sons of Abrahams as Imams (leaders).

There are verses that says sons of Noah, Moses were Imams (leader).

There are verses that says Jesus is also descendent from Abraham/Ibrahim (as).

Muhammad is related to Jesus and is from the progeny of Abraham (as).

PakAbroad - I believe you were confirming this lineage/progeny in another post of yours!

** So, what is Ahl ul Bayt? **

Ahl ul Bayt are the descendents/progeny from the House of Abraham or Ahle Ibrahim or Ahle Muhammad sws!

** If Allah provided Imam (Leaders) from Abraham's progeny right down to Muhammad. Then, would He not continue this lineal leadership from House of Abraham or Ahle Bayt? **

This is why Quran & Imam goes together. Imams are the ones who Guides & Interpret the Quran & Sunnah.

and,

That is why muslims are commanded to recite/shower daroods on Ahle Muhammad till the end of time.

** Note: ** I can cite all the above verses re: Imams (leaders) from the House of Abraham;
and,
also, verse which says the Hazrat Isa will re-appear towards the end of time.

49

yep.. 33:56 misinterpreted again

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Never let anyone stop you from bringing qur’anic proofs to the table.

50

[quote]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
** yep.. 33:56 misinterpreted again
**
[/quote]

Misrepresented by who?
All muslims recite darood shariff for Muhammad SAS & his progeny.

** Do submitters recite darood shariff?

Also, Could you please tell us the submitters belief re:
1) Hazart Isa's re-appearance towards the end of time; and,

2) about Ahl al Bayt? **

Both 1 & 2 are accepted by overwhelming majority of muslims, except the submitters. Tell us why?

51

Guys;

We are all going off the topic.

Seems like emotions have taken over once again and nobody bothers to read the post.

Let me recap before we proceed with the topic if Imam Mahdi (as):

PA,

If you look at verse 33:33, you will notice - if you know Arabic - that the grammer switches from feminine to Masculine. Therefore, though the previous verse talked about the wives of the prophet (pbuh), verse 33:33 talks of a “Group” of people amongst whom are male members.

No to decifer who the male members are, I have posted a hadith from Sahih Muslim. It is here again, for the millionth time, for your review:-

From Sahih Muslim:- http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/031.smt.html

Book 031, Number 5955:
'A’isha reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel’s hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said:

Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)<<<

Sahih Tirmidhi has this authentic hadiths from 30 different chains of narrators.

If you don’t believe in the hadiths, especially the sahih hadiths, that’s up to you.

But you do believe in hadiths, because you have chosen the one you like - the prophet (pbuh) left behind only the qur’an. This is exactly what Umar said during the prophet’s (pbuh) last holy breath, when he called the prophet (pbuh) delirious (mad).

And Allah (swt) knows Best.

52

Spanky,

Pls read again.

From Sahih Muslim:- http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/031.smt.html

Book 031, Number 5955:
'A’isha reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel’s hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said:

Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)<<<

No WIVES MENTIONED. Only the holy five are the AHL-BAIT.

We use your books because 1) you do not believe in our books and 2) our books mention the same hadiths through our chain of sources.

We do not believe in all of your hadiths. But that doesn’t matter, because you do believe in all of them.

So there should be no concern whether I believe in them or not.

Hope this is clear. Let’s move on to the original topic of Imam Mahdi (as).

53

Here's that thread.