Yeah, ethnic related terrorism kills people because they speak a certain language or vote for a certain party, thats not random at all!!!
Ethnic related violence is just one of the many factors responsible for recent killings. Mostly it is related to political and religious violence.
Re: The liberal city: "Thus Stands Karachi"
this whole discussion is so ridiculous. you're attacking a strawman, the article hypothesises a consensus against Taliban/religious extremism. The various ethnicities and subgroups within ethnicities are at each other's necks but they were ahead of the curve as far as attitudes towards ttp/taleban are concerned. now Pakistan in general has the same attitude towards Taleban. If you are a mainstream Pakistani you recognize that such an attitude towards douchey religious extremists is a good thing. If one of our cities is proud of countering a specific form of evil, we should be happy about it, instead of getting so defensive.
Karachi's been peaceful in last 2 years, LOL, i think this Paracha guy hasnt read a newspaper in 2 years, and hasnt been sober enough to comprehend what news channels been saying.
The crackhead's on MQM payroll these days... He was fired from the news recently, and someone had to pay for whatever he's smoking while working part time in Dawn. More people have been 'offed' by the MQM in target killings than from what the Taliban offed up north. MQM is the Taliban of the south.
Re: The liberal city: "Thus Stands Karachi"
^^ seems like MQM has no "unit" or "sector" in Planet Vulcan yet, hmmmm... khoji, i make you unit incharge of Planet Vulcan, go get him
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE
Between Taliban and MQM
Both kill.
their is a huge difference, agree both kill.
but the later is political movement, on the other hand talibanic-gays are on the mission to take over pakistan and kill everyone along the way.
Re: The liberal city: "Thus Stands Karachi"
May God keep Karachi safe from the troubles caused by bomb blasts and the like. We have suffered much already in other parts of the country.
Personally, I believe that support for extremism is not less in Karachi than in other parts of the country (I have lived both in Lahore and Karachi/Hyderabad). I think it is logistically easier for these people (read, animals) to carry out attacks in northern regions of the country.
May God keep Karachi safe from the troubles caused by bomb blasts and the like. We have suffered much already in other parts of the country.
Personally, I believe that support for extremism is not less in Karachi than in other parts of the country (I have lived both in Lahore and Karachi/Hyderabad). I think it is logistically easier for these people (read, animals) to carry out attacks in northern regions of the country.
Karachi is very liberal & secular compare to other cities of Pakistan, this make it quite difficult for Gay-mullahs to turn minds into walking monsters.
Karachi is very liberal & secular compare to other cities of Pakistan, this make it quite difficult for Gay-mullahs to turn minds into walking monsters.
liberals who could not stand other ethnicities to come work there? who would kill and rob people just because they speak a different language?
More secular, I would agree.
I said a similar level of 'support for extremism' exists in Karachi because of the pervasive ethnic extremism in the city if not religious.
Re: The liberal city: "Thus Stands Karachi"
^Thats a misconception, that i too had before visiting the city. Lahorites, Islamabadites in general are lot more secular and liberal than Karachites. One can see more hijabis in Karachi than in other big cities, also men are more religiously inclined in Karachi.
haha, well this one time I got a death threat via PM from a MQM guy, and another PPP dude also warned me of his links to the ‘land mafia’… I told both of them off 
Its funny how these MQM wallaz are used to threatening, killing people in streets if they ever hear reports about someone bashing their great quiad-e-fisaad altaf kaliya but are helpless on the internet 
Karachi is very liberal & secular compare to other cities of Pakistan, this make it quite difficult for Gay-mullahs to turn minds into walking monsters.
Sorry, Karachi is very polarized, and there's a lot of hatred and group-baazi amongst the various elasticities, groups, parties, sects etc. The best city in that regards is Islamabad, no question about it. Now you could argue this would happen because of Karachi's diversity, but then again, Islamabad is diverse too, most of the people aren't really natives of the city and also, look at NY, the melting pot, a prime example of coexistence.
Re: The liberal city: "Thus Stands Karachi"
Punjabi shopkeepers in KAracih complain that during the 90s, the MQM commandos used to come with AK-47s in their hands and asked the shopkeepers to close their shops as they issued out a strike call... This is the language they used:
'Oye punjabi bharwoon, dukaney band karo, dekhta hoon mey kis tarha koi dukaan kholta hai aaj'.
This behavior was also reminiscent from the sub-don mustafa kamaal bhai self proclaimed number 3 best mayooor of the world. Even NPR spoke of his racist rant towards the poor Pakhtuns of Karachi.
^Thats a misconception, that i too had before visiting the city. Lahorites, Islamabadites in general are lot more secular and liberal than Karachites. One can see more hijabis in Karachi than in other big cities, also men are more religiously inclined in Karachi.
I think being more religiously inclined is fine, as long as you tolerate others' beliefs. Certainly more 'expression' of religious beliefs in Karachi but that doesn't make it religiously intolerant or liberal society. I think Karachi does well in terms of co-existence of people from different beliefs (although the city somehow got cleansed of its big Parsi community and despite a JI being a substantive political force there).
I wouldn't call Karachi 'liberal' as claimed in the piece by NFP, just because of the intolerance people there have for different ethnic and linguistic groups.
Re: The liberal city: "Thus Stands Karachi"
you guys confuse the word liberal with perfect. to contrast liberal with conservative on religious lines is completely okay and a correct use of the word, and in that context the case is being made that Karachi is on the whole a liberal city. now you can agree or not, but pointing out ethnic violence or attitudes is to attack a strawman.
Re: The liberal city: "Thus Stands Karachi"
How exactly do we gauge the "liberalism" of a city? You pick the standars and we can compare different cities.
Re: The liberal city: "Thus Stands Karachi"
in a religious context, success of religious political parties, stances of elected political parties against religious violence and extremism. NFP also seems to include prevalence of religious violence, but I'd humbly suggest thats tempting fate.
while it took a while for PML's stance to solidify against extremism, and questions are repeatedly raised about their seriousness and language (SS's statement, Rana Sanaullah with SSP etc). contrast that with MQM/ANP/PPP's consistent, open denunciation of religious extremism, to the point of being accused of hysteria.
Re: The liberal city: "Thus Stands Karachi"
Although Karachi has seen some of the worst terror attacks in recent years, one of them is on 10th of Moharram, but Nadeem does make a valid point. Karachi has been quite peaceful when it comes to religious violence. There has been numerous attempts to pit Shia against Sunnis but so far it has failed miserably. Even though the main parties (MQM, PPP, ANP) still have their differences with each other but they have done quite well to dispel religious and ethnic extremism something that has lacked in other major cities and provinces.
in a religious context, success of religious political parties, stances of elected political parties against religious violence and extremism. NFP also seems to include prevalence of religious violence, but I'd humbly suggest thats tempting fate.
while it took a while for PML's stance to solidify against extremism, and questions are repeatedly raised about their seriousness and language (SS's statement, Rana Sanaullah with SSP etc). contrast that with MQM/ANP/PPP's consistent, open denunciation of religious extremism, to the point of being accused of hysteria.
By these parameters Peshawar would be considered more liberal than Lahore, and such a claim would only be laughed upon.
Opposition to extremism has not been an election issue upto now, the stance taken by political parties are their own and not reflective of the opinions of people voting for them. Just to remind you that the only political party that used the issue of fight with Taleban in election campagn was ANP, which at that point was saying that theu will make a truce with taleban and stop bloodshed of Pakhtoons.
You are correct in saying that ANP campaigned on a different agenda wrt Taleban in 2007, which is why on their basis alone it isnt possible to draw the conclusion that the people who voted them in have more liberal attitudes.
However (and I may be wrong about this) within ANP I havent seen more straightforward condemnation of taleban and religious extremism, and making the case for opposing them not because of wanting to end bloodshed but because of their ideology, than that made by Shahi Syed of Karachi here. It may be the case (and this is speculative) that politicians from less liberal areas may not want to condemn on the basis of ideology for fear of losing votes.
there is also the case of political parties moulding the electorate’s views, and that is the value of political parties hardening their stances after the elections. i know to the extent of the community MQM gets votes in, with its consistent rhetoric on the taleban and extremism, the typical mohajir is very likely to be (ideologically) anti-taleban.
Re: The liberal city: “Thus Stands Karachi”
*
…The word liberal has been so debased in America by right-wing demagogues that liberals have for at least two decades preferred to call themselves progressives.
It really is confusing - although perhaps the real transatlantic confusion is not over the meaning of the word liberal but over the meaning of the word conservative.*