PTI has one of the most leftist, socially oriented AKA liberal political agendas. Imran's philanthropic work to all areas of Pakistan including Karachi, evidences his liberal inclinations.
JuD also has philanthropic works all across the country. Jamate Islami has its own philanthropic works.
But if you look at the rhetoric coming out of him, you will realize that it is hardly different from Qazi Hussain of Jamat.
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Last I heard, PML(Q) was liberal too and enjoyed backing of the most liberal leader ever in Pak i.e. Musharraf.
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Musharraf's backing can not be used as an argument for PMLQ's liberalism. Army at that time was looking for support from ANYWHERE, and PMLQ provided it to them.
But when it came to taking action against violent extremism in Jamia Hafsa, the Chaudhries did their best to stop it. They did not care about the threats those fanatics were issuing against Pakistan.
You probably cannot even comprehend the contradictions iin your post. Yeah Karachi is violent, no karachi is less violent than rest of country!!!
The difference is that violence in Karachi is partly political and partly criminal oriented. Remember, criminal gangs in Lyari.
On the other hand, violence in other parts of country is related to terrorism and religious fanaticism.
The insecurity and fear caused by the later violence among common people is a lot more than targeted killings between different rivals.
Khoji: Not really. MQM hates everyone in Karachi besides their own niche support-base. They even kill the majority peace-loving Urdu speakings who don't agree with them. Prime example: The great Hakeem Saeed.
^^ I think PML(Q) presents a pretty good liberal alternative. Karachiites can win a lot of goodwill by kicking out MQM and supporting more tolerant and peacful political parties. I know from my own experience how dramtically MQM altered the socially tolerant landscape of Karachi to a hate filled, terror fueled one where violence reigned supreme. MQM needs to go.
You may be right. I am not sure.
If this is true then I would love to see PMLQ’s vote bank increase in Punjab.
Edit: Here is an interesting statement from PMLQ’s Pervaiz Elahi. I don’t think anyone will see similar statement from MQM/ANP/PPP. Unfortunately, when someone talks of Islam these days then most often than not he talks about religious extremism started by Zia.
Islam is the first priority of PML followed by Pakistan: Pervaiz Elahi
He said Islam is the **first priority of PML **followed by Pakistan and it is the main objective of the party to transform Pakistan into true Islamic Welfare state in the light of sayings of Quaid-e-Azam. He said the PML is fully committed to make laws in line with Islamic morals.
So the main objective of PMLQ is not the betterment of people’s economic condition, rather their main objective is to make laws in line with Islamic morals.
Chaudhry Shujaat considers himself a “soul-mate” of religious parties. Here is some more. It says Musharraf could not implement his policies the way he would have liked only due to PMLQ’s inclinations towards religious fanaticism:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\09\12\story_12-9-2007_pg3_3
The PMLQ, as a Musharraf ally, has always been a conservative force and sympathetic to religious elements and jihadis. Ijaz-ul-Haq and Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain have been openly encouraging extremist religious elements. Even in the case of Lal Masjad these two leaders tried to encourage and placate the extremist religious elements rather than combating them.
Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain has been known for opposing measures taken by the Musharraf government that may not be to the liking of the religious elements.
Actions speak louder than words. PMLQ were the core base of Musharraf during his tenure and took on a pretty liberal political stance on most issues. Not that I back them or support them in any way, but at least they're not a terror group like MQM. So that's a positive in their favor.
Also, keep in mind, that MOST people in Pakistan support those who can ACT and so something for the nation, rather than being mired in this whole conservative/liberal debate. Musharraf enjoyed a lot of support during his initial 2 or 3 years, and Nawaz Sharif was pretty unpopular everywhere (incl Punjab) when he took over. Also, liberalism doesn't mean rejecting religion. It means having a socially oriented bent.
On PML(N) etc: While you can accuse them of being aligned to the militants, they're not resorting to violence themselves and creating political terror in Lahore etc as a means of securing votes. MQM doesn't proxy use other groups because it is a militant group in itself.
The difference is that violence in Karachi is partly political and partly criminal oriented. Remember, criminal gangs in Lyari.
On the other hand, violence in other parts of country is related to terrorism and religious fanaticism.
The insecurity and fear caused by the later violence among common people is a lot more than targeted killings between different rivals.
Violence in Lahore and Peshawar comes from outside these cities, the terrorist come from terror hideouts and target them, violence in Karachi is homegrown. Fueled by the ethnocentrism of MQM, which you support because of your ethnic chuavanism.
Actions speak louder than words. PMLQ were the core base of Musharraf during his tenure and took on a pretty liberal political stance on most issues. Not that I back them or support them in any way, but at least they're not a terror group like MQM. So that's a positive in their favor.
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On PML(N) etc: While you can accuse them of being aligned to the militants, they're not resorting to violence themselves and creating political terror in Lahore
Anyone with inclination towards religious fanaticism constitutes an even BIGGER terror group than the likes of MQM.
The biggest security threat being faced by Pakistan is not coming from MQM or Lyari or ANP, it is from khariji extremism.
PMLQ was the core base of army's rule, and this is why they did everything they could to stop Musharraf taking action against extremists.
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Also, liberalism doesn't mean rejecting religion. It means having a socially oriented bent.
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Liberalism means a lot of things. I am talking about rejecting religious extremist fundamentalism.
The threat to Karachi is not from extremism, but from MQM. The threat to wider Pakistan, yes, comes from the extremists and terrorists like Altaf Hussain, who're equally to blame for the mess we're in. If it weren't for MQM, Karachi could have easily spearheaded Pakistan's economic growth just as it did for the first 30 or 40 years of the country. When MQM resorted to its street terror politics of the 80s and 90s, it set a precedent for the militants to follow. All the international airlines fled Karachi and took it off its route map, industrialists relocated and investment dried up. Who lost? Karachi did. Pakistan did. And the militants had a blueprint to follow for their agenda in all parts of the country: They could become the MQM of KP or Punjab.
Violence in Lahore and Peshawar comes from outside these cities, the terrorist come from terror hideouts and target them, violence in Karachi is homegrown. Fueled by the ethnocentrism of MQM, which you support because of your ethnic chuavanism.
Yeah, it is so easy to throw out the terms like fascism, ethnic chauvinism, etc., instead of having a good discussion.
But anyway, why does it matter whether the violence is coming from the city or not?
Point is that religious extremism creates more insecurity and fear than target killings. Because religious extremism kills people randomly. This is why it is more troubling than common criminal gangs.
And this is why Americans were more serious going after people who killed 3000 New Yorkers, instead of going after deaths from, say, gangs related deaths.
Yeah, ethnic related terrorism kills people because they speak a certain language or vote for a certain party, thats not random at all!!! Wonder to what level would people go to safeguard interests of their own party. There are people who have their ethnic agenda, they damn care about peace in the country, they are now pushing their agenda in guise of WOT.
Yeah, ethnic related terrorism kills people because they speak a certain language or vote for a certain party, thats not random at all!!! Wonder to what level would people go to safeguard interests of their own party. There are people who have their ethnic agenda, they damn care about peace in the country, they are now pushing their agenda in guise of WOT.
The difference is that violence in Karachi is partly political and partly criminal oriented. Remember, criminal gangs in Lyari.
On the other hand, violence in other parts of country is related to terrorism and religious fanaticism.
The insecurity and fear caused by the later violence among common people is a lot more than targeted killings between different rivals.
here you are quite right Khoji.
But the only question is this that how we can get rid of these politicians and establishment. There is no hope of any better from any of these parties and religious or ethnic groups,establishment,bureaucracy and judiciary. Only young and educated people can change this country but how to make them a force, this is the basic question.
If you add a Karachi supporting article you are labeled as Mqm supporters..
Say what you say.. Karachi is still Pak-Saaf from Talbanic Brutality......
Yup but Karachi haters are everywhere in this forum. But hey the city is safe from people blowing themselves up and still the economic powerhouse of Pakistan.
Yup but Karachi haters are everywhere in this forum. But hey the city is safe from people blowing themselves up and still the economic powerhouse of Pakistan.
Typical BS from you MQM-wallahs and your 'victim' mentality.
I have lived in Karachi my whole life, and know all about the thousands of people the MQM have killed, kidnapped, and tortured to death.
If it wasn't for Karachi's biggest criminal gang- the MQM- there would be much less crime and death in Karachi, and much more economic prosperity.