The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

[Goliko]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@pyarilclarki

if as per u 100% blame of east pakistan fiasco lies with pakistanis then wats the share of india:confused: .in not then y blame india:D

India added fuel to the fire & got it’s own aim..

[CheGuvera]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@fartguru

birds of the same feather flock together…

Bhutto screwed up big time as far as the economy was concerned, but it was that scum bucket moron zia who messed up Pakistan’s social fibre by jumping into the saudi/us circus called jihad. Now we all know its repercussions, yet we do not accept reality and blame bhutto for all ills.

Bhutto may have been partially responsible for the East Pak fiasco, but he did what he knew best. Take advantage of a political situation for his own personal benefit. Real responsibility goes to all those parties siding with Yahya Khan ie Jamaat e Islami, PML (lotas) and other bikao maals. Army/JI/PML/Awami League were the main culprits of 1971, its a shame we still do not recognise the real culprits because of this charade created by the state and its sponsors.

I’d rather be associated with a pious darwesh like Zia then a drunkard, whenching, womanizing, vulgar and genocidal bhattu and his quasi genius degenerate bihari version, another mass murderer of his own people, Altaf…

And Zia did what he had to, just as Bhattu did, but he did not stifle the industrial/economic progress, which would have elevated Pakistan in the 2nd tiered country by the end of eighties, instead of being lumped with sub-saharan fourth world countries…

[queer]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

zia is a darvaish now? oh my..

[ehsan]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@CheGuvera

I’d rather be associated with a pious darwesh like Zia then a drunkard, whenching, womanizing, vulgar and genocidal bhattu and his quasi genius degenerate bihari version, another mass murderer of his own people, Altaf…

And Zia did what he had to, just as Bhattu did, but he did not stifle the industrial/economic progress, which would have elevated Pakistan in the 2nd tiered country by the end of eighties, instead of being lumped with sub-saharan fourth world countries…

Thefollowing were Zia’s achievements:

• Drug culture
• klashnikov Culture
• MQM
• committed judicial murder of an elected PM
• creation of madrassah’s
• etc. etc. etc.

He was corrupt, incompetent and destroyed the very fabric of our society. He did more damage to Pakistan in his 11 years of misrule than India in 50 years of Pakistan’s existence.

[Zakk]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

Morality and politics are usually two different things.when they aren't you have a saint or a hypocrite..some of my relatives used to say despite what the perception was off Zia he was for all intents and purposes sincere in what he did..so his role in desttabilising his own country was done with the utmost sincerity..I suppose he was a modern day Aurenzeb

[Goliko]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@ehsan

Thefollowing were Zia’s achievements:

• Drug culture
• klashnikov Culture
• MQM
• committed judicial murder of an elected PM
• creation of madrassah’s
• etc. etc. etc.

He was corrupt, incompetent and destroyed the very fabric of our society. He did more damage to Pakistan in his 11 years of misrule than India in 50 years of Pakistan’s existence.

Bhutto intoduced the culture of Dance,Alcohol & Partying(But comeon that was the culture in those times all around Pakistan,Iran was drinking under Shah,Afghanistan was the heaven for Drugies while India was prospering her Nuclear power dreams)…Zia introduced the culture of violence(MQM against Sindhis/JI…Mujahideen’s against Soviets…Khalsa against Indian government,Depositing Afghan/Pashtoon refugees in Karachi to balance MQM and then creating a religious Shia/Sunni strife)…No one was pious…

[bao_bihari]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@CheGuvera

I’d rather be associated with a pious darwesh like Zia then a drunkard, whenching, womanizing, vulgar and genocidal bhattu and his quasi genius degenerate **bihari **version, another mass murderer of his own people, Altaf…

And Zia did what he had to, just as Bhattu did, but he did not stifle the industrial/economic progress, which would have elevated Pakistan in the 2nd tiered country by the end of eighties, instead of being lumped with sub-saharan fourth world countries…

:topic:
Cheguvera bhai..

Altaf is not a bihari—

even if he was…i do not think that we should be using this as a curse –

ALLAH hidayat day

[WitchDr]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@Captain1

and not forget what happened in the then East Pakistan. But then Zia had his own problems, the way he handled Afghan refugee issue, created MQM to counter JI and handed them weapons, all these leaders should’ve been shot in the eye, cut one ear and left to live with stray dogs.

What happened in East Pakistan was not because of ZAB. ISI was actively involved to rig the elections. ZAB came on the political scene after this debacle. Read the following para from taken from this article:
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/pakistan/isi/politics.html

“A National Security Council was created under the chairmanship of General Yahya Khan with Major General Ghulam Umar as second in command to control the intelligence operation which was meant to ensure that no political party should get an overall majority in the general election.”

[Chel_Chabila_Babu]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@bao bihari

:topic:
Cheguvera bhai..

Altaf is not a bihari—

even if he was…i do not think that we should be using this as a curse –

ALLAH hidayat day

Ameen.

This brother really is pretty racist, Pathan, Punjabi, Bihari sab ke peechay haath dho ke parr gaey hain.

[WitchDr]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@CheGuvera

And Zia did what he had to, just as Bhattu did, but he did not stifle the industrial/economic progress, which would have elevated Pakistan in the 2nd tiered country by the end of eighties, instead of being lumped with sub-saharan fourth world countries…

Zia reaped the fruits of large investment in long gestation projects made by Bhutto. (Steel mill, Terbela Dam). It was also helped by the US $ 7 billions aid by the US.

Zia had no vision and unlike Bhutto Zia left no large-scale project under implementation.

[Zalim_Wadera]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@Degas

absolutely NO! when army was killing and raping Bengalis he wasnt in power.. he left Ayub Khan long before any Bengali movement started.. and was in jail most of the time.. in all the hate movement of Bengalis against army he was not involved in any way.. the hate movement was manifested in the elections and Mujeeb won on 5 nationalist points .. Bhutto only was involved after the war was lost.. the negotiationas failed for a consensus constitution and framework for transfer of power..

Its the first time I have heard about this East Pakistan rape/massacre connection with Bhutto! where did u read it? this connection is between Army and bengalis..

The moment I read your comment, I knew it would go unnoticed or would be wilfully ignored by the readers here. The fact that you have mentioned stands taller than the rubbish claims that Bhutto was responsible for the fall of East Pakistan. We can not blame him for the crimes that he did not commit.
Unfortunately, we lost this great leader ever produced by Pakistani soil. I wont say he was perfect. His vices apart, his vision was far more superior.

Inna Lillah e wa Inna Ilahye Rajioon.

[CM]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

Ok someone explain to me how Bhutto was not responsible for the 1971 fiasco? He lost the election did he not? Yet he took power regardless. Not the signs of an honest and honorable man. Rather that of a meglomaniac.

[Capricorn]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@CM

Ok someone explain to me how Bhutto was not responsible for the 1971 fiasco? He lost the election did he not? Yet he took power regardless. Not the signs of an honest and honorable man. Rather that of a meglomaniac.

Read what Degas, WirchDr and Zalim Wadera has written. Your this question wasnt warranted. He lost elections? Did he? No. He won in West Pakistan and in East Pakistan, Mujeeb won. Would you like to know who was not in favour of transferring the power to East Pakistan? The same organization who created One Unit long before Bhutto was on the scene.

[ehsan]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@CM

Ok someone explain to me how Bhutto was not responsible for the 1971 fiasco? He lost the election did he not? Yet he took power regardless. Not the signs of an honest and honorable man. Rather that of a meglomaniac.

Who held the power at the time-- Gen. Yahya. Whose responsibility it was to hand over power to the elected leaders-- Gen Yahya. Even after losing the war to Inida the nicompoop tried to block civilian rule and only handed power to Bhutto when the airforce rebelled?

So who was the villain, Yahya or Bhutto?

One thing though if Bhutto had not come to power we would have been spared 11 dark and evil years of Zia.

[Goliko]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@CM

Ok someone explain to me how Bhutto was not responsible for the 1971 fiasco? He lost the election did he not? Yet he took power regardless. Not the signs of an honest and honorable man. Rather that of a meglomaniac.

It’s because East Pakistan was already lost in Early 50’s starting from the Urdu-bengali Strife…complicated by a huge land mass distance…Ayub made it worst with his one unit when Bengal lost it’s status as a seperate Bengali province(East Bengal) & beacme one unit of East Pakistan…

[Reza_Pahlavi]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

No doubt ZAB played a role in the 1971 debacle, as he should have accepted the overwhelming victory of Mujib-ur-Rehman, but one can never fault him in how he started Pakistan's nuclear programme, brought us closer to Iran and other Muslim countries, especially in being instrumental in creating the OIC, and in consolidating our historic friendship with China.

Bhutto sahib will always live in the hearts and minds of millions of Pakistani people, and his killing was nothing but a judicial execution.

[CM]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@Capricorn

Read what Degas, WirchDr and Zalim Wadera has written. Your this question wasnt warranted. He lost elections? Did he? No. He won in West Pakistan and in East Pakistan, Mujeeb won. Would you like to know who was not in favour of transferring the power to East Pakistan? The same organization who created One Unit long before Bhutto was on the scene.

I see you already believe in the seperatist ideology. I personally don’t. One nation one election. The popular vote went to Mujib. He won fair and square. He won the election yet Bhutto took over regardless. The man who created our first constitution was not democractically elected at all.

Ehsan Zia is not an issue here. Unless you feel is one dependent on the other. Both men are independent of each other. If you wish to discuss Zia then we can do that in another thread. With regard to Bhutto we have two stories now.

First capricorn says he was elected by the minority. Then you say he was given power by Yahya. Which is it?

Goliko, East Pakistan being lost in the 50s has very little influence in Bhutto’s crazy grab for power. The fact remains that he lost the power vote in Pakistan. One nation voted and he lost. He took power anyway.

Now when it is decided which line of thinking we are to work with, he was put into power or he won the election we can go ahead and discuss whether he was responsible for the 1971 fiasco.

Edit: Just to clarify two things. He lost the elections originally and which lead to the seperation of the country. He won the second set of elections in 1973. Fair and square - as much as pakistani politics are. I am refering to the original elections which bhutto lost. The question arises if Mujib had taken power in 1970/71. Would Bhutto ever come to power? I mean it was in Bhutto’s interest to see the split.

[CM]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@Reza Pahlavi

No doubt ZAB played a role in the 1971 debacle, as he should have accepted the overwhelming victory of Mujib-ur-Rehman, but one can never fault him in how he started Pakistan’s nuclear programme, brought us closer to Iran and other Muslim countries, especially in being instrumental in creating the OIC, and in consolidating our historic friendship with China.

Bhutto sahib will always live in the hearts and minds of millions of Pakistani people, and his killing was nothing but a judicial execution.

The nuclear program he can be credited for. China he can not be. Our relationship was created and fostered by the military through out our 50 plus years of independence.

OIC a waste of time then. A waste of time now.

[ehsan]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

@CM

Ehsan Zia is not an issue here. Unless you feel is one dependent on the other. Both men are independent of each other. If you wish to discuss Zia then we can do that in another thread. With regard to Bhutto we have two stories now.

Zia is an issue, because it was Bhutto who promoted him to top position which he neither deserved nor would havegot under any other PM. An army chief whose only accomplishment was the murder of Palestinians in Jordan and fostering a dark and evil night of 11 years on Pakistan. He was God’s revenge on Pakistan and Bhutto was the one who fostered him on our nation.

Still you did not answer my question regarding who was incharge of Pakistan and who should have handed power over to Mujib. Had Yahya and the army been sincere in handing over power to the elected leader despite Bhuttos boycott, they could have done so. They had their own agenda.

[CM]

Re: The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto

Well isn't that the fault of Bhutto? He promoted him because he was not a threat. He was promoted because Bhutto felt he could control him.

Two things on Yahya. Firstly that Bhutto lost the elections. I hope that is agreeable. Now Bhutto was appointed Chief Martial Law Administrator for Pakistan. Then he was also appointed President. However these jobs/roles he took without a problem even having lost the elections. After all if Bhutto was such a great man why didn't he just say no?

I have no warmth of affection for the Army they have done enough to warrant death. But Bhutto defacto coveted power and had no problem assuming power when he had no right to. They did hand over power to him but he readily accepted it. He made sure he got power.

My question is on sources to quote would it be acceptable to quote books i have or would you prefer only internet sources?