What is perhaps most surprising to the average individual is that the Ivy League is nothing but an athletic group of universities.All of the Ivies are Northeastern Schools with a long history. The trouble is that many people have considered the schools that comprise of the League as some sort of personal and professional benchmark. In reality it is individuals themselves that shape the institutions.
For example, who is to say MIT is less than Harvard? NYU less than Columbia? There are plenty of remarkable individuals housed in all of the institutions of higher learning. So don’t buy the hype-- a silly moniker doesn’t do any good.
ofcourse a degree would be as good as you make it to be..however; regardless of that, it comes down to whether a uni enjoys a good repute among the employers or not and Ivies enjoy a better market value.
RF and HB, you both make good points. Ivy Leaguers definitely have an advantage in the marketplace in terms of jobs, positions, companies, etc. However, it's the person that makes his/her university experience what it is, whether it's in an Ivy League school or not. Don't you sometimes see some of the dorkiest people around who attended an Ivy League school and wonder how the heck did that person get in?! It's funny. On the other hand, a lot of extremely intelligent people attend non-Ivy League schools perhaps for financial concerns, convenience, or other reasons. You simply can't generalize this point to a common denominator, that's all.
interesting post RF…
I was just having this conversation with a friend yesterday…
in brief, the context was for me to answer whether or not as a student, I suffered for not taking the proffered grant of Ivy League admission - this being the case where for my Masters, I was admitted to MIT and for my Ph.D. I was admitted to Stanford - and both times I passed up on these.
My answer was and still is - “not at all”
I opted to do my M.B.A. from a lesser known University here in Canada, only because it offered the program that suited me at the time… however, I think I still availed opportunities that a lot of other people wouldn’t have while doing their Masters - I’ve trevelled on University grants, competed in International events, written papers and presented them at conferences.
Besides, I was still offered the opportunities I had hoped for anyways - having held consulting engagements with multinationals for two years while completing my M.B.A.
Similarly, even though I applied to a couple of big schools for my Ph.D. and by God’s grace got accepted in them, I’ve still opted to stick to my university and do it here since I think that would work out for me inshaAllah just as well as any other University.
Conventional wisdom ( read “parents, family, relatives and friends” ), holds that I should have charged for the Ivy gates with head down and blinders firmly on, but I presonally agree with what you and sweetpie have already said in your posts.
I'm getting my MBA (only 3 more courses to go..yeeeah!) at a local university, which happens to be quite expensive since it is private. However, the reason I chose this school for my MBA was simply because of convenience. It's a good school, is located not too far from me (about 1 hour away, to which I commute) and is relatively close to work as well.
Sidenote: The only bummer is that I am footing the bill 100% out-of-pocket since my work doesn't contribute anything towards it (tuition reimbursement, etc.)...but I graduate in May '04 so it's all coming full circle for me. It's worth the sacrifice, that's for sure.
yeah, I was a lil more fortunate to have received a 50% scholarship (ahem, a little blackmail by telling them my "other" options)... meaning I had to pay for one year and that didn't turn out to be too bad since I was working full time.
Yeah I don't buy into the whole Ivy League thing. A good school is a good school whether its an Ivy League or not. And there are weak Ivy schools which are not as good as some strong non Ivy's.
Hypothetically speaking, if for grad school I was to get into school A which was a strong non Ivy and school B which was a weak Ivy, I do admit that the fact that school B is any Ivy would count for something in my decision, but it would definitely not be a significant decision changing factor at all.
Glad to read all of your replies HB, Umar, Sweetz and Irem.
I think a lot of credence for the Ivy League comes from their famous alumni, the "sticker" value, being rather venerable institutions. In my experience, there have been many people crushed or disdainful of the Ivy Universities, because of the selectivity and exclusiveness.
The reality is that the individual becomes buried in the institution, becoming self-absorbed in their accomplishment, rather than seeing the world in a more dynamic perspective. The trouble is that the job market, namely the higher echelons tend to prefer and thus keep up the demand for graduates of such universities. If anyone else read Umar's paper, it clearly supports many of the arguments presented here.
I admit that it all may sound odd coming from me, particularly for those who know my background , however the reality is always individual based. Ones talents and abilities must not be diminished in front of an institution of higher learning.
It is a door opener like no other. Is it a matter of coincidence that most senior managment of most large companies has gone to either IVY or the non-Ivy top 5 institutions for undergrad or graduate training?
Let me put it to you this way… to get in… one needs to be an all arounder. So these fairytales of nerds roaming the halls of MIT is hogwash.
The hard choices are between Harvard and Stanford and like…not between Harvard and U Michigan.
Oh man ... I can tell you this from personal experience ... NAME SELLLSSSS.
Ivy league schools not only has more money and resources to spend and train their students, but they also have more connections. Which translates into better internships and better prospect of jobs. Lets face the fact why do people go to school, invest thousand of $$$$. ..... SO that they can make better living and if you ar graduate of Ivy league, getting a job even in tough times is much easier than for a graduate from non ivy schools.
All cars take you form point A to point B, they all have four wheels, an engine etc. So why buy a Mercedes when you can buy a suzuki for third of the price??? NAME SELLS
CH, no doubt it’s a door opener…exactly why this BS is perpetuated. If you think that “Ivy” U title makes you smarter, better or good looking then youve got sad news coming your way. Don’t tell me about the old boys network, unfortunately I’m beyond familiar with it..lets talk about that Financial Analyst from Podunk U busting his butt while the Dartmouth frat boy’s getting ahead. Efficiency is the name of the game.
Look I am not denying the Ivy or top 5 grads are more motivated, or are likely to have some quality..but lets not shut people out, here. Why must you lie about MIT? Only nerds can tolerate that pit of gray known as the campus?
CH, no doubt it's a door opener...exactly why this BS is perpetuated. If you think that "Ivy" U title makes you smarter, better or good looking then youve got sad news coming your way. Don't tell me about the old boys network, unfortunately I'm beyond familiar with it..lets talk about that Financial Analyst from Podunk U busting his butt while the Dartmouth frat boy's getting ahead. Efficiency is the name of the game.
Look I am not denying the Ivy or top 5 grads are more motivated, or are likely to have some quality..but lets not shut people out, here. Why must you lie about MIT? Only nerds can tolerate that pit of gray known as the campus?
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Yeah I've heard of horror stories about MIT but I'll say this much that its not a place only for nerds :) I've seen some really well balanced people from MIT. Though MIT kills you specially if you are a techie, the work load is insane.
Yarr Rajput
Kia bat he ... I have a feeling that some MIT person did you wrong ... what's the story let me pull up my chair, I'll be your shrink :)
Just kidding ... don't get mad ....
One thing I know for sure, the guys at MIT belong with girls from MIT and vice versa. When they can't find any gal ... well .. I leave it there. Suffolk Univ has the best looking and friendly crowd. That's the place you wanna go to :)
), holds that I should have charged for the Ivy gates with head down and blinders firmly on, but I presonally agree with what you and sweetpie have already said in your posts.