^ Religion has nothing to go with governance. Islam unfortunately tries to go there but fails miserably.
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*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
The Quran is understood in the light of the Sunnah and physical Jihad is an essential pillar of Islam.
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I guess that points out the dangers of following the life of an imperfect man instead of following the word of God.
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Like I said before a religion, which prohibits self-defence and defence of the oppressed is being unrealistic and can never work.
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Yes it is realistic. If everyone were to follow the same perfect religion, then there wouldn't be any reason for self defense and there wouldn't be any oppressed to defend. What has this essential pillar of Islam done to protect the oppressed after 1400 years?
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I guess that points out the dangers of following the life of an imperfect man instead of following the word of God.
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Pehn chod, teri baybay di phudi'ch kuttay da lund…
Have some respect when you are talking about the best of creation (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) he was perfect and infallible in conveying Islam to us.
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Yes it is realistic. If everyone were to follow the same perfect religion, then there wouldn't be any reason for self defense and there wouldn't be any oppressed to defend. What has this essential pillar of Islam done to protect the oppressed after 1400 years?
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Yeah but not everyone does follow the true and perfect religion (i.e. Islam) instead they have been mislead by Satan into following man made religions and religions which are no longer in their pristine forms but have been changed by men.
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Yes it is realistic. If everyone were to follow the same perfect religion, then there wouldn't be any reason for self defense and there wouldn't be any oppressed to defend. What has this essential pillar of Islam done to protect the oppressed after 1400 years?
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Jihad has liberated many oppressed humans from tyranny, there are countless examples in history.
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*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
Yeah but not everyone does follow the true and perfect religion (i.e. Islam) instead they have been mislead by Satan into following man made religions and religions which are no longer in their pristine forms but have been changed by men.
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Are Muslims currently practicing the true and perfect religion?
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Jihad has liberated many oppressed humans from tyranny, there are countless examples in history.
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I know there have been many military and many peaceful movements int the spread of Islam. But when have Muslims liberated oppressed Muslims from a Muslim dominated government or land?
BTW, what makes Christianity Satan-inspired other than the supposed shirk involving Jesus? Is the Bible that much out of sync with the 'true word' of the Quran? Exactly what is it that goes against the word of God - the peaceful teachings of Jesus? It is obvious that they don't make the cut in your interpretation of the 'true word'. Helluva thing to cut out of God's message.
Seminole the example are many, the persians against the arabs..in the olden days, Iran vs. Iraq, too many to name indeed. I wonder if anyone was liberated...
Saif, yours is a direct example of 'Laton ke bhut baton se nahin mante'
And I think Bush has understood it well.
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Are Muslims currently practicing the true and perfect religion?
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Sadly no. This Ummah is in the sorry state it is in today because we have strayed away from the Quran and Sunnah.
The downfall of this Ummat has been prophesised by the Prophet (peace be upon him). Allah willing there will be time when all Muslims will realise the superiority of Islam and only then will this Ummah return to its golden age.
Islam is perfect and always will be Muslims are not.
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BTW, what makes Christianity Satan-inspired other than the supposed shirk involving Jesus? Is the Bible that much out of sync with the 'true word' of the Quran? Exactly what is it that goes against the word of God - the peaceful teachings of Jesus? It is obvious that they don't make the cut in your interpretation of the 'true word'. Helluva thing to cut out of God's message.
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Shirk is bad enough, there is no sin worse than it. Christians are breaking the first commandment.
There’s countless other man made things in Bible both the New Testament and the Old Testament, like original sin etc.
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*Originally posted by yahudi: *
Saif, yours is a direct example of 'Laton ke bhut baton se nahin mante'
And I think Bush has understood it well.
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Jee bilkul, mein bhi yehi kehnay wala tha.
LaatouN ke bhoot baatouN se NaheiN maantey…
Aap logoun ko mein laatoun se samjha leta lekin Internet pe aesa karna kaafi mushkil hai…
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*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
Sadly no. This Ummah is in the sorry state it is in today because we have strayed away from the Quran and Sunnah.
The downfall of this Ummat has been prophesised by the Prophet (peace be upon him). Allah willing there will be time when all Muslims will realise the superiority of Islam and only then will this Ummah return to its golden age.
Islam is perfect and always will be Muslims are not.
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So are Muslims being misled by Satan? What's the difference if it's the scripture that's man-made or the practices of the followers that are man-made? Either way the people are not following the word of God. I'm not picking on Islam becaise every organized religion has similar issues, but if Islam is so perfect, why have the followers 'strayed away from the Quran and Sunnah?' The perfect, unaltered, word of God - with instructions on how to live your day to day life - should be perfected by its followers by now. If it is truly 'perfect', why are there so many ambiguous answers to questions still floating around after 1400 years? Like what foods are permissable, is music haram, etc... Why are there so many religious schools and leaders that preach hatred and intolerance? Why isn't there at least one ideal Islamic state in the world today?
I have not talked to one Muslim who denies the superiority of Islam, so I do not think that is what is preventing their return to the golden age. IMHO it is the inability of Muslims to adapt their scriptures and hadiths to modern day living.
There are still 2 questions I don't have an answer for:
1) When have Muslims liberated oppressed Muslims from a Muslim dominated government or land?
2) Could not the following verse:
“And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors” [The holy Quran 2:190]
be interpreted that the 'way of Allah' is not through violence but through His more benevolent teachings and the peaceful message of Jesus?
way to go… :k:
Umreeka deya kutia meri desi bund chaat.
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1) When have Muslims liberated oppressed Muslims from a Muslim dominated government or land?
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Weather they did or not that’s insignificant because I’m defending Islam not Muslims.
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be interpreted that the 'way of Allah' is not through violence but through His more benevolent teachings and the peaceful message of Jesus?
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I don’t see anything wrong with the way it is interpreted. What’s wrong with self-defence etc.? Violence is sometimes necessary, if Christianity teaches turn the other cheek then why do Christians fight wars?
And the message of Jesus (Alayhis Salaam) has been corrupted so can’t refer to that.
Changez bhai is that a compliment or sarcasm?
Ghussa aa jaata hai yaar inn logouN pe, aesay to yeh loag jaantey heiN ke Islam aik bay-daagh aur mukammal deen hai lekin phir bhi yeh apni akaR aur ghamanD ki wajah se iss sach ko tasleem naheiN kar saktey…
Inn ke saath baehs karney ka koi faeda to naheiN hai kiyoun ke inn ki aankhouN pe aur dilouN pe pardey heiN… Yeh to marney ke baad hee inheiN ibrat aaey gee jab yeh jahannum ki aag mein jalaey jaeiN ge…
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*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
Weather they did or not that’s insignificant because I’m defending Islam not Muslims.
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Muslims have had 1400 years to implement Islam. It's the perfect religion, superior to all others. Why did God make it so His people cannot follow? When will the time occur that the followers finally 'get it'? Besides my question as to Muslim helping Muslims was more to make the point that the current jihad movement is only against non-Muslim countries. IMO it is hypocritical for these self righteous jihadis to ignore their brothers that are being oppressed by the hundreds of millions in Muslim majority countries.
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I don’t see anything wrong with the way it is interpreted. What’s wrong with self-defence etc.? Violence is sometimes necessary, if Christianity teaches turn the other cheek then why do Christians fight wars?
And the message of Jesus (Alayhis Salaam) has been corrupted so can’t refer to that.
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Christians (particularly those in control) may not be following the message of Christ any more than are Muslims. It doesn't mean that Jesus' message was wrong. Just as you defend Islam even though Muslims are not following it, one can defend Jesus's teachings even though Christians are for the most part not 'Christ-like'. The teachings and message of Jesus are more 'God-like' than anything else I have read. May God allow more corruption if it means more messages like those of Jesus.