C.I.A. and Pakistan Work Together, but Do So Warily - NYTimes.com
Very interesting article.
Re: The ISI and CIA
Read it.
It makes total sense on the Pak. side. When the US cuts and runs, who will be there to pick up the pieces?
In this next round, we need to pick off Iran vis-a-vis Afghanistan. Except for the most hardcore, sold out Dari speakers...we can get massive leverage using the Iranian - Tajik/Hazara links in Gran Afghanistan.
Re: The ISI and CIA
One should read NYT with a grain of salt.
It is a leftie bhonpoo for years on end. They will do everything to rub as much salt on Pakistan/ISI as possible even if they have to invent few things here and there.
The problem with many American lefties is that they hate CIA, because CIA has fought against the left and practically destroyed it all over the world.
And NYT groups ISI just like CIA, meaning anti-left.
However NYT doesn't want to accept the fact that ISI is not separate from Pak army, like CIA is separate from Pentagon.
Whereas there are many rivalries and turf battles between CIA and Pentagon,
there is no such turf battle going on between ISI and Pak army at institutional level (individual rivalries are always there and you can't control them).
When Gen. Kyani says help the CIA, then ISI follows and thus any distrust that NYT talks about is in the Leftie dreams.
And blaming ISI for hiding or being shadowy is just a drama bazi. It is a professional organization run by the same officers who run Pak army.
CIA fully realizes that everyone is jockeying for their own interest. That's why they have kept India on their side to keep Northern alliance under control.
And yes the same CIA will rely on ISI to keep Talibots under control. And Pashtuns being dominant in Afghanistan means ISI will always have bigger say that RAW.
Pakistani civilians and news media though end up getting nervous and worry about conspiracies. There may be some, but they are few and far in between.
We forget that Talibots dumped ISI for the longest time, thinking that they now can go to the ARab Islamists and get more money.
But in this business you do not cut the middle man. There is a reason that man is in the middle.
And Talibots were stupid to dump ISI.
As a return favor, both CIA and ISI will pick apart the bad Talibots and keep the good ones.
It is the way things are done in Afghanistan.
Too bad this gad awful country doesn't have strong devotion to Kabul. Otherwise they would be able to avoid a lot of troubles.
Since the center aka Kabul is not strong, CIA and ISI and RAW and Arabs and Iranians will continue making deals with the individual tribals.
That means more money in the pockets of individual Afghanistanis but bad for Afghanistan.
However Pakistanis must learn that the only pro-Pakistan (due to long history) player on the international level is CIA. Because RAW, and Iranians, and Russians will never support us due to long history of antagonism.
In this game mutual interests matter and not the religion.
Just like an American company wants to hire Indian techies because they get the job done.
Americans want to work and rely on and support Par army because it is the main force in the context of Afghanistan.
And unfortunately NYT article is off base about Pak army.
Read it.
It makes total sense on the Pak. side. When the US cuts and runs, who will be there to pick up the pieces?
In this next round, we need to pick off Iran vis-a-vis Afghanistan. Except for the most hardcore, sold out Dari speakers...we can get massive leverage using the Iranian - Tajik/Hazara links in Gran Afghanistan.
Don't think US is going to cut and run this time.
They just have too much invested in Afghanistan and as well keeping peace between Pakistan and Indian in South Asia to build India's economy to challenge China which means keeping Pakistan happy.
And Pakistan's Military have realized this and thats why you see the major crackdowns on Taliban Terrorists operating in Pakistan.
Re: The ISI and CIA
As always posh spice by what idiotic notion do you think the ISI even considers left or right or up and down when it considers Pakistan nations interest?
The Americans are cutting and running. That is why by 2011, they are going to withdraw.
Re: The ISI and CIA
holy smoke... I-9. I lived there for a couple of summers.
Re: The ISI and CIA
you guys may forgetting another motivation.
The recent funding came with a number of supervisory check points which make it difficult for Pak army (and ISI) officials to "benefit" from. With their prime wealth building channel thus constricted, they have reacted and are trying to show the US that they need their cut.
Re: The ISI and CIA
Reread the legislation.
Re: The ISI and CIA
I wanted to join the ISI but not anymore. I feel sorry for them as they are forced to submit all the fair / unfair US commands hence, in certain cases, they have to do their jobs even if it goes against the national interest. If they do not, face the consequence...................... Just like musharaf became a tool for them after they threatened to destroy the whole of Pakistan. They showed him a small sample of how they can / will do it............................. google pakistan earthquack of 2005 haarp.
So it is impossible for one patriotic Pakistani to remain with ISI without getting engaged with anti pakistan actions. It becomes a matter of do or die. Musharraf did not want the earth to lose traces of Pakistan so he was forced to bow to the unfair commands too which he thought was his wise decision to save pakistan & less expensive. He was the one who re-started the gawadar ports project (among more others) which met the most resistance not only from the known enemies of pakistan (india) but also the enemies under the 'friends / brothers' disguise (UAE). So huge campaigns were started against him to over throw him. I am sure some pakistanis know how dhuuubhaaii government had reacted to the gawadar project. These enemies did not want Pakistan & its' people to prosper. The only want to see it destoryed.
But only if pakistani public could understand that.
Don't think US is going to cut and run this time.
They just have too much invested in Afghanistan and as well keeping peace between Pakistan and Indian in South Asia to build India's economy to challenge China which means keeping Pakistan happy.
And Pakistan's Military have realized this and thats why you see the major crackdowns on Taliban Terrorists operating in Pakistan.
Incorrect. The US will withdraw/ this is not conjecture but stated policy.
You have come up with fun conspiracy theories. Peace between Pakistan and India is not Afghanistan dependent but rather based on Kashmir. Are you aware of the magnitude of trade between China and the US? Also the fact that Chinese are so heavily invested in the US? Any overt action to "prop" up India to directly take on China may end up with the rug being pulled out under the US.
The Taliban crackdowns will continue, however they should be limited to anti-State elements (TTP etc) and not those based in Afghanistan. Once the US is gone, the Talibs will be back in power.
Read it.
When the US cuts and runs.
There is a famous saying about amreekans "vamoose"
(:
Incorrect. The US will withdraw/ this is not conjecture but stated policy.
You have come up with fun conspiracy theories. Peace between Pakistan and India is not Afghanistan dependent but rather based on Kashmir. Are you aware of the magnitude of trade between China and the US? Also the fact that Chinese are so heavily invested in the US? Any overt action to "prop" up India to directly take on China may end up with the rug being pulled out under the US.
The Taliban crackdowns will continue, however they should be limited to anti-State elements (TTP etc) and not those based in Afghanistan. Once the US is gone, the Talibs will be back in power.
really/ how? China is holding US bonds. China needs the US market for its cash flow. If China ever crosses a line in global policy, the USA can stop buying stuff from China and also renege on the bonds. In 36 hours Chinese economy will be in utter shambles.
For example - China was making open official threats last month warning Obama against meeting Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama happily visited the Whitehouse, had a grand meeting and made happy statements after that.
Next - China warned against supplying arms to Taiwan. USA just shipped the armaments without batting an eyelid.
Even in th elong term China needs the USA - where else are they going to steal technology from?
Re: The ISI and CIA
US owes China close to a trillion dollars last I heard. They have the largest financial reserves in the world. I don't think China is any position of weakness.
really/ how? China is holding US bonds. China needs the US market for its cash flow. If China ever crosses a line in global policy, the USA can stop buying stuff from China and also renege on the bonds. In 36 hours Chinese economy will be in utter shambles.
For example - China was making open official threats last month warning Obama against meeting Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama happily visited the Whitehouse, had a grand meeting and made happy statements after that.
Next - China warned against supplying arms to Taiwan. USA just shipped the armaments without batting an eyelid.
Even in th elong term China needs the USA - where else are they going to steal technology from?
Good points.
Chinese may threaten or make noise. But history proves that they are very docile when it comes to their LONG term interests and their cooperation with the West.
Simply put Chinese (and Indians) know how to respect the West and keep their jobs and businesses.
Middle Easterner people (minus some high officials in few governments) on the other hand, are the biggest idiots in terms of watching for their long term interests and cooperating with the West.
Ordinary Americans enjoy great hospitality in both India and China regardless of the government level sparring.
Middle Eastern idiotics on the other hand are ready to kill ordinary Western visitors.
And unfortunately Pakistani have learned the worst habits from their Middle Eastern god-figures.
US owes China close to a trillion dollars last I heard. They have the largest financial reserves in the world. I don't think China is any position of weakness.
it is not a position of weakness at all. Rather, it is a very strong position when compared to that of most other countries.....BUT it is a position relative to the US.
Let me put it this way:
Would you prefer sitting on a $1T worth of oil or $1T worth of US bonds? If China does ANYTHING to weaken the US, do you think China can afford to take a 50% hit on those bonds?
Secondly and even more important than the $1T debt, is what will China do with its manufacture and labor if it cannot export to the US?
US still happens to be the Gold standard as for as China is concerned.
That is why the ONLY way for China to regain this unintended consequence of riches, is to slowly and gradually reduce their US bond holdings. If they do it too fast, they will suffer the worst. They have started doing that very slowly (last month they became the 2nd largest US bond holders, relinquishing the 1st spot to Japan).
China missed a strategic boat 2 to 5 years ago by not opening up their currency. That would have offered an alternative for a lot of countries in the event dollar and euro misfire. They did not do that and as a result what you're seeing is the seesaw between the USD and Euro. Now it is Euros turn to slide, so guess what - USD will start going up.
China is caught in the (forex) trade winds!
really/ how? China is holding US bonds. China needs the US market for its cash flow. If China ever crosses a line in global policy, the USA can stop buying stuff from China and also renege on the bonds. In 36 hours Chinese economy will be in utter shambles.
For example - China was making open official threats last month warning Obama against meeting Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama happily visited the Whitehouse, had a grand meeting and made happy statements after that.
Next - China warned against supplying arms to Taiwan. USA just shipped the armaments without batting an eyelid.
Even in th elong term China needs the USA - where else are they going to steal technology from?
I don't think you're reading my messages correctly. It's a symbiotic relationship which means that the US is as tied into China's success as vice versa.
I think your mixing politics with economics. Even if the US-China relations become strained politically, I see both countries suffering economically, so any "prop ups" of India or Country X will hurt the US.
Re: The ISI and CIA
if you believe politics and economics are very intermixed I cannot really explain my point.
Besides, yes there is massive symbiosis between the US and China and both will suffer if other takes drastic action. However my view is that the US will only 'suffer a lot' whereas China will be devastated.
if you believe politics and economics are very intermixed I cannot really explain my point.
Besides, yes there is massive symbiosis between the US and China and both will suffer if other takes drastic action. However my view is that the US will only 'suffer a lot' whereas China will be devastated.
Agreed. So it's a lose-lose situation, yea?
My point was actually in response to Merc2K's conspiracy theories.
One should read NYT with a grain of salt.
It is a leftie bhonpoo for years on end. They will do everything to rub as much salt on Pakistan/ISI as possible even if they have to invent few things here and there.
And unfortunately NYT article is off base about Pak army.
Were nt you stating in another thread how the US media does not portray Pakistan negatively and just shows it how it is there?
Re: The ISI and CIA
Posh spice changes his tune to feed his crazy reality. Most likely drug induced.