The growing national consensus

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: The growing national consensus

^ Gallup poll talks about how many people view the Taliban as negative in 'some' areas. Now only a dodo (we have one at Dawn I bet) would equate that as Govt popularity/actions. Ever wondered how you can view the taliban as being a negative, and yet oppose a war?

According to the survey conducted in December, before the current military operation, nearly half of Pakistanis (47 per cent ) believed the Taliban's presence in some areas of the country has a negative influence; 14 per cent said it has a positive influence and 39 per cent had no opinion.***

As far as you wine, you had trouble reading that newsweek article where you supposedly implied how Time ranked Kiani as more influential than the president and commander in chief of the US. There is no hope for you, seriously.

p.s. the gallup survey is almost 5-6 months old, not that I care but you were whining about my 1 month old survey IRI survey...

Andaz Apna Apna
42

Same way IRI is two month old ... ;)

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Re: The growing national consensus

^ But you were the one who had his panties in a twist with that month old IRI survey not me, and in response you've posted a 6 month old survey, which has nothing to do with the popularity of the Govt and its operation

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Re: The growing national consensus

I think it is obvious that there still is great love for taliban terrorism in pakistan. A slow shift away from this has started and that is encouraging if it can be sustained. If not, the end for pakistan as we know it will be a matter of time only.

Stories behind the names of areas in Karachi
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I thought you said Nawaz Sharif, Chaudhry Iftikhar were Taliban, and they have the major support, i.e. 75% of the public support right now, as opposed to last october's 60%?

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Lets talk about you :). For you the only credible people opposing the operation then are Imran Khan?

First off, ‘you guys’ does not include me. Secondly thats 4 parties with very little political mandate. Aside from PML(Q) theres no real representative of the people in there.

haha… when is it exactly that everyone will join in? major parties have declared support for the operation, i remind you. Any about face for them now would be more embarassing for them than for zardari.

which numbers are going down? Perhaps you should post some dont-hurt-the-Taleban songs yourself, from where Im sitting your numbers dont look good :slight_smile:

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Thus proving my point about taliban influence in pakistan and why the army is unwilling to fight this out correctly. How many days since the operation and none of the main towns are secure? Nawaz, at least due to revulsion by people of taliban brutality is towing the taliban is bad line for public consumption.

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Re: The growing national consensus

More good news. (why do they all have their hands in the same position?)

APC endorses Swat operation

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/cf833a004e2562749e4dfe584cb2001d/g2+copy.jpg?MOD=AJPERES

ISLAMABAD: The government and the military on Monday got the much-needed backing from the country’s political class and, barring a few minor exceptions, leaders of political parties from across the broad spectrum supported the efforts to eliminate the menace of religious extremism and terrorism, but cautioned against collateral damage or alienation of the general public.

Perhaps the biggest, and much-needed, support came from Mian Nawaz Sharif and his Pakistan Muslim League (PML-N) which proved to be the moot point in the shaping of opinion during the All Parties Conference called by Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani.
In fact, the support from the main opposition party in a way compelled some of the opposition groups, particularly the Jamaat-i-Islami, Imran Khan’s Tehrik-i-Insaaf and Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam either to take a back seat or to dilute their criticism of the ongoing security operation against the Taliban in Swat and adjoining areas.
If there was any doubt about the PML-N’s position at the conference, Mr Sharif’s closest lieutenant Raja Zafarul Haq came out to declare that the party had fully backed the military operation in the Malakand region.
Later talking to DawnNews, Mr Haq said that if similar conditions prevailed in the Waziristan region, his party would not hesitate to support a military operation there as well.
Premier Gilani had convened the APC to discuss the ongoing military operation and evolve a joint strategy. And despite some reservations expressed by a few of the relatively smaller parties and groups, the APC succeeded in adopting a joint declaration which, in essence, supported government’s efforts to restore peace and constitutional rule in the troubled region of Malakand and beyond.
The APC attended by leaders of 43 major political and religious parties discussed in details the situation arising out of the activities of militants and extremists in parts of the NWFP that forced the government to undertake military action.
It was one of those rare events in the country’s politics where almost every politician and party that matter were present at the Prime Minister’s House, not only to express their views on one of the gravest situations faced by the country since the fall of Dhaka, but also to try and evolve a consensus on meeting the challenge.
So right from the prime minister and other senior members of the PPP-led government to Nawaz Sharif, and Jamaat leaders to those from the two JUIs, and Mehmood Khan Achakzai and Aftab Ahmed Sherpao to Asfandyar Wali Khan and Imran Khan and Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain to those from the MQM were all present to deliberate on the matter.

A few of them, though arch rivals and real adversaries in politics, not only shook hands and exchanged pleasantries but in the end also agreed to a joint declaration.
Inside sources told Dawn that a majority of the leaders had endorsed the government’s decision to launch the military operation after exhausting all other options, including the so-called Nizam-i-Adl regulation. According to them, JI, JUI-S, PTI and JUI-F leaders expressed their reservations over the military action.

Talking to reporters after the conference, JI leader Liaquat Baloch said his party had impressed upon the government that the use of military might should have been avoided.
Perhaps Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed described the decision more aptly when he said: ‘Majority of the participants supported the military action and no one opposed it.’
Prime Minister Gilani informed the leaders that the military operation was proceeding successfully and the army would remain in the region till peace was restored and displaced people were able to return to their homes.
He, however, said the military operation was not a permanent solution, adding: ‘Unless political forces step in to resolve the situation, there is no guarantee to a sustainable solution (of the problem of terrorism and extremism).’
He said the army action had become necessary after the militants refused to acknowledge the writ of the state, treated innocent people with brutality and made their lives miserable.
‘It was, therefore, decided to call in the army in the best national interest and for the safety of our own people,’ he said, adding that rehabilitation of IDPs was as important as the military action.
He said: ‘The government will leave no stone unturned for their rehabilitation and for reconstruction of damaged property. We are determined to defeat every conspiracy being hatched in the name of Islam.’
**NUCLEAR ASSETS **
The prime minister rejected a perception that Pakistan’s nuclear assets would fall into the hands of militants and said that nuclear assets were safe and anyone daring to compromise these would be dealt with severely.
A 16-point resolution unanimously adopted at the APC resolved to strive to unite the nation in the face of insurgency in Swat and Malakand, struggle collectively for security and welfare of the IDPs and to jointly combat terrorism, extremism and sectarianism.
The following is the text of the resolution:

  1. Recalled, the consensus resolution passed by a joint sitting of parliament on October 22, 2008;

  2. Reiterated, its support of the resolution passed on October 2, 2008, and the subsequent recommendations made by the parliamentary committee on national security as required by the resolution and impressed upon the need for speedy implementation;

  3. Reaffirmed, its commitment to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and sovereignty of the state of Pakistan;

  4. Emphasised, the need to establish and maintain the writ of the state and ensure supremacy of the rule of law;

  5. Condemned, all violent challenges to the Constitution and the state of Pakistan;

  6. Expressed, grief for the martyrdom of security personnel and innocent civilians;

  7. Maintaining, that the safety and security of civilians is paramount and it should be ensured that minimum harm is caused to the non-combatant civilian population;

  8. Re-emphasised, the need to ensure the safety, wellbeing and rehabilitation in their respective areas of the internally displaced persons;

  9. Called upon, the Pakistani people to respond as one nation to mitigate the suffering of our brothers and sisters, the Internally Displaced Persons;

  10. Emphasised, that Pakistan is a vibrant dynamic democracy;
    11 Reaffirmed, that Pakistan’s nuclear assets were under an effective command and control authority;
    12 Asserted, that the strategic decisions regarding military issues, including troops’ deployment, are the sole prerogative of the state of Pakistan;

  11. Appreciated, the tremendous sacrifices given by the Pakistani people economically, politically and in terms of human life while fighting terrorism, more than any other country or people;

  12. Condemned, the violation of Pakistan’s optical economic and territorial sovereignty, including drone attacks; and

  13. Conveyed, that Pakistan is a sovereign state and any aid, economic or military which carries cardinalities will be counter-productive.

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Thats great to hear :k:

Telling everyone their hands are tied? :smiley:

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Re: The growing national consensus

i dont know , the shift in the opinion is always hanging around the head. many think, one operation and peace accomplished but when you see the after math of million refugees, violence and chaos it doesnt take long for that poll to swing.

Andaz Apna Apna
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That's why we need to be as strong willed as sri lankans in battling these takfiris. They fought against the most advanced guerrilla group in the world and won.

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Re: The growing national consensus

^

  1. They won after 30 years. We cannot afford that.
  2. Srilanka is an Island, and still it went on for 30 years. Pakistan has a looooong border with Afghanistan.
  3. Major world powers didn't have a lot to do in that war, and it still went on for 30 years.
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APC endorses Swat operation

A good sign that atleast all Paki politician agreed on right or wrong on this crucial issue.

Secondly had NS been president of Pakistan, situation would have exactly the same as it is now. Zardari or NS, it is the same as dictated by military top brass. Rest is just eye wash such as IRI ratings etc., In present circumtances it has absolutely provided a faulty and biased ratings what Spock has posted.

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | APC endorses Swat operation

**In fact, the support from the main opposition party in a way compelled some of the opposition groups, particularly the Jamaat-i-Islami, Imran Khan’s Tehrik-i-Insaaf and Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam either to take a back seat or to dilute their criticism of the ongoing security operation against the Taliban in Swat and adjoining areas. **

If there was any doubt about the PML-N’s position at the conference, Mr Sharif’s closest lieutenant Raja Zafarul Haq came out to declare that the party had fully backed the military operation in the Malakand region.

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A country smaller then our any big city can firmly stand 30 years why we can't for 300 years? I didnt' see any reason against it, just require a will.

[QUOTE]
2. Srilanka is an Island, and still it went on for 30 years. Pakistan has a looooong border with Afghanistan.
[/QUOTE]

Sri Lanka doesn't have resources which Pakistan is capable off.

[QUOTE]
3. Major world powers didn't have a lot to do in that war, and it still went on for 30 years.
[/QUOTE]

It was fight of ideology, and you are wrong, India was fully behind it from the start, they want Sri lanka as they proxy state, but with the help of Pakistani & Chinese Sri Lankans able to defeat this cancer !

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Re: The growing national consensus

^ I have no doubts about the capabilities of Pakistan forces. I am just saying that we might be facing a long hard battle. Traffic into and out of an Island is easier to monitor. Huge Taliban presence in Afghanistan is a big issue. Hard to control movements across the border. Lets hope for the best.

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Agreed, this is a long battle, but Taliban's will not vanished until we defeat them on ideological front, same way we did to Qadiyani's :)

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under fire

Deir Aye, Durusst aye. I hope after the APC the opposition against Army operation will be greatly reduced.

Agencies under fire
Source: Agencies under fire

By Rauf Klasra
ISLAMABAD: Top politicians questioned the poor performance of the intelligence agencies during the all parties conference (APC) for failing to pinpoint and take out the main leaders and targets of the Taliban in the troubled areas of Malakand and Swat.

**Imran Khan, Maulana Fazlur Rehman and a few others also faced criticism for their opposition to the Army action against the Taliban. **According to sources, role of the intelligence agencies came under question when Nawaz Sharif, Sahibzada Fazal Karim, Munir Orakzai and Maulana Fazlur Rehman wondered what our agencies were doing in the current situation as they had failed to find out the main targets to eliminate them.

MNA Munir Orakzai was not reluctant to name the secret agencies. He told the participants that he had raised this issue with the Army chief during the briefing by the military command last week. But, as he tried to share his views with the participants, Parliamentary Affairs Minister Dr Babar Awan stopped him on the grounds that he was not supposed to disclose information given in closed-door briefing by the military command.

Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry was also criticised by some of the participants. Haji Hanif Tayyab, Ejaz Sarwat Qadri of the Sunni Tehrik and Maulana Fazlur Rehman spoke against him in the meeting. Tayyab and Qadri said their parties had been working for the restoration of chief justice but he never took suo motu notice over the Nishtar park killings.

However, Imran Khan, Liaquat Baloch, Maulana Samiul Haq and Munir Orakzai faced a lot of criticism for their opposition to the operation in Swat. Imran Khan was very candid when he admitted that he was confused over the current situation and should be given clear replies to his questions. Imran, Maulana Fazl and others observed that the operation was launched in a hurry.

Asfandyar Wali and NWFP Chief Minister Hoti replied to questions put up by Imran which greatly helped him make up his mind to sign the joint declaration. Maulana Fazl was told that on the one hand he was seen warning about the takeover of Islamabad by the Taliban after capturing Tarbela and then he walked out of the assembly against the operation.

Nawaz Sharif was of the view that we should not do politics at this critical stage. He said let the present government complete its five years and once the new election would come, then every party could play politics according to its wishes.

PkMAP chief Mehmud Khan Achakzai, however, delivered a different speech in the meeting. The Baloch leader said he was not in a hurry to die nor he was fed up with Pakistan. Looking at his watch he told the participants of the conference that he was 100 per cent sure that Pakistan would exist and no harm would come to it.

At the end of the conference, Prime Minister Gilani told the participants that his government would not compromise on the nuclear issue as it was the gift to the nation by PPP founder late Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.

Dr Babar Awan and Raza Rabbani had prepared the draft of the resolution which was later fine-tuned by Chaudhry Nisar Ali, Mushahid Hussain, Khurshid Shah, Raja Pervez Ashraf and Liaquat Baloch. Finally, signatures of the participants were obtained on the joint declaration so that no one backed out from the commitments given in the meeting.

The participants of the meeting even clashed during the debate on the current situation. At one stage, a furious Ghafoor Haideri after exchanging hot words with MNA Sahibzada Fazal Karim tried to walk out. But intervention by Gilani and Dr Babar Awan saved the situation.

Sahibzada Fazal Karim and Ghafoor Haideri exchanged hot words when it was pointed out that no group would be allowed to hold others at gunpoint and impose one brand of Islam.

Babar Ghauri and Ghafoor Haideri desperately wanted to rebut some of the criticism directed at their leaders during the meeting but Babar Awan informed them about the decision that only top leadership could clarify the situation.

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I have already opened thread on this subject under the heading ".*APC endorses Swat operation". * Mods can either merge these or close mine.

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no but i think we have more at risk here. things might swing for waziristan and already a separatist movement is running there. last time we employed army in this manner we lost a wing. not that i wish that . i hope fazalullah and his cronies are captured quickly and dealt with swiftly but military actions can get out of control when we have no feasible way of monitoring those fleeing these areas(anyone can be a refugee even the troublemongers. huge afghan population in pakistan, how are we going to get rid of this if every afghan refugee is a potential taliban?

and what is takfiris?