Building shrines over graves is completely forbidden in Islam because it is paganistic and polythiestic in nature, Islam teaches monotheism.
Allah Almighty teaches us in the Holy Quran that He alone is the Deity worthy of worship, the Mosques are the Temples of Allah Almighty alone, not the shrines of His Prophets (A).
Here are some narrations attributed to our beloved Prophet Muhammed (S) in regard to making graves into shrines and taking them as places of worship:
“Beware of those who preceded you and used to take the graves of their prophets and righteous men as places of worship, but you must not take graves as Mosques; I forbid you to do that.” (Sahih Muslim)
“May Allah’s curse be on the Jews for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets.” (Sahih Bukhari)
“May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets.” (Sahih Bukhari)
“If any religious man dies amongst those people they would build a place of worship at his grave and make these pictures in it. They will be the worst creature in the sight of Allah on the Day of Resurrection.” (Sahih Bukhari)
“Do not sit on the graves and do not pray facing towards them.” (Sahih Bukhari)
“Messenger of Allah (S) has forbidden plastering graves, to make them a place to sit, or to build over them constructions.” (Muslim)
“I Heard the Messenger of Allah (S) that he ordered us to level graves.” (Muslim)
“The graves elevated with beautiful constructions should be destroyed.” (Muslim)
“Do not let any picture without erasing it, nor a grave without levelling it.” (Muslim)
“The Messenger of Allah (S) forbade plastering graves, writing over them, and building over them.” [Muslim]
“All the earth is a Mosque except for graveyards and bathrooms.” (Tirmidhi)
In accordance with the orders of our beloved Prophet Muhammed (S) himself the green dome and the structure over his grave and the graves of his two companions next to him should be demolished, the gravesite should be seperated from the Mosque complex so that it clearly lies outside the Mosque structure and the graves should be simple ones surrounded by a small wall like the other graveyards in Mecca and Medina (with a footpath running at the foot of the graves for those who want to visit them to offer Salaam) because the Prophet (S) banned mixing Mosques and graves and building structures over graves.
The Saudi authorities and 'Ullamaah have a duty to comply with these Ahadeeth.
May the Peace & the Blessings of Allah be upon the Prophet, his Aal and his Companions.
the dome is over the mosque....
the prophet (saw) and his two companions were burried outside the mosque; in the house of Ayehsa (ra)....
but during later expansions of the mosque the house became a part of the mosque along with many other houses in close vicinity of the mosque....
now what do u suggest?? shall we move the mosque elsewhere or shall we dig out the graves of these people and move them elsewhere????
The Green Dome is to the corner of the Mosque over the area where the Holy Prophet (S) lies (and the first two Caliphs Abu Bakar (R) and Omar (R) are buried).
I agree with you that they were originally buried in the house of Ammi 'Aayesha (R) and that doesn't count as building over graves because the house was already there before the graves and I think the reason the Prophet (S) was buried there was because of a Hadith saying that Messengers (or Prophets?) are buried where they pass away.
But later the actualy house of our Mother, The Lady 'Aaeysha was demolished (?) and the area built over by extending the Mosque over it.
The actual house wouldn't have been a problem since the Sahaabah (R) didn't budge it but the extension of the Mosque over the area during the times of a later Caliph needs to be fixed.
The grave area is to the side, they can easily exclude it from the Mosque and turn it into a graveyard.
This is the most destructive and tribal attitude towards our history. These guys should be called "sledge hammer group" or in Pakistan we had hathora group who smashed people's skulls to get maza.
Don't these people know that the primary purpose of these tombs, pictures, statues and other structures is to show us our history. Connect us to our past. If some dimwit wants to go and worship them, then it is between him and God.
This hathora group wants to destroy these beutiful buildings, just to protect them from abuse. Wah wah. Just destroy all of your knives because some dimwit somewhere in the world killed someone using a knife.
Where would we be without Pyramids? We would have never known how people lived and died 1000s of years ago.
Where would we be without Taj Mahal? We would have never known about the love of Shah Jahan and his wife.
Where will be all that beauty and art. Would you go destroy pyramids? and taj mahal too?
It is so horrible to even hear that we have on this board someone who champions the cuase of destroying Mohammad pbuh's tomb.
Our heart cries to see the utter destruction of the grave yard called Jannatul Baqih. If you care to look through the gates, you will see as if 1000 planes came over the area and dropped 100,000 bombs. Every building, every aspect is now in the form of tiny shards.
May Allah punish them who destroyed the history.
InshaAllah one day when the extremists will be kicked out of Madina, we'll go back and rebuild the beautiful structures.
Hathora group and hand choppers have nothing useful to do in their life. They will continue their path of death and destruction all in the name of Quran Hadees.
Man! Some people want to parrot the words from ahadees without ever understanding the context and meanings.
It is evident that the claim that “Islam condems building edifices over graves for whatever reasons” is failse since Islam has condoned the edifices over the graves of the Prophet (saws), his Companions (ra), and the pious `ulama since the early centuries. Was Islam so weak back then as to be unable to stop the edifices being built, as it is weak today and incapable of stopping the destructive hand of those at work in the Hijaz, destroying those very grave sites? What is condemned is to build such structures for worldly considerations such as pride, luxury, or imitation of non-Muslims.
The topic of tombs is present in the Qur’an. The verse from Surat al-Kahf is in fact adduced by some to illustrate the permissibility of tombs. Those who say “Islam condemns” when in fact the reverse is true, silence themselves through lack of proof. Their (lack of) authority should definitely be exposed as uninformed and unethical.
The reply to the claim of a close relationship ‘between graves exaltation and rearing the causes that lead to associating other gods -no matter how minor and in whatever form - with Allah Almighty’ is that this is gibberish by and for unthinking minds. "And speak not, concerning that which your own tongues qualify (as clean or unclean), the falsehood: “This is lawful, and this is forbidden,” so that ye invent a lie against Allah. Lo! those who invent a lie against Allah will not succeed."
As for the “genuine religious leaders” who oppose the Ulu* of the Umma in every day and age, this is the wont of the people of *bida in every day and age. They all claimed they were genuine although they were and are misguided. Wa min Allah al-Tawfiq.
Now for the proofs and fatawa of the ulama on the issue of tombs: The first Sahabi buried in the cemetery of al-Madina, al-Baqi, was Uthman ibn Mazun (ra), the milk-brother of the Prophet (saws). The latter placed a large boulder on top of his grave to mark it, saying: "By this I shall know where the grave of my brother Uthman is and add to him my relatives." Abu Dawud and others narrated it. A stronger proof than any non-*mutawatir* text is the universal practice of the Umma from the earliest centuries in building up tombs over the graves of those celebrated for their piety so that they would find them easily during their visitation, as ordered by the Prophet (saws): "Visit the graves." Hence Fatima (ra) had also marked the grave of her uncle Hamza (ra) with a rock, as she used to visit it every Jumua.
Imam al-Shawkani admitted that the Salaf built up the graves high. Concerning the hadith of `Ali ordering the destruction of tombs in the Sahihayn, Sunan, and Musnad with various wordings:
Ibn al-Jawzi in al-Tahqiq said: “This [hadith] is understood to refer to the elevated graves they used to build with high and beautiful structures.” Al-Zayla`i mentioned it in Nasb al-Raya.
Imam al-Nawawi in his *Sharh Sahih Muslim *said: “The Sunna is that the grave not be raised up a lot above the earth’s surface], nor rounded, but that it be raised up approximately a hand-span (shibr) and flattened, and this is the madhhab of al-Shafii and those [of the other schools] who agreed with him, while al-Qadi Iyad related that most of the `ulama prefer it to be rounded [in the shape of a mound], and this is the madhhab of Malik.”
Al-Shawkani in *Nayl al-Awtar *added to this that it is haram to build them up high and he claimed that the fact that the Salaf and Khalaf built them up high is no proof that it is not haram, and al-Azim Abadi approved him whole-heartedly in Awn al-Mabud. But the Amir al-Sanani in Subul al-Salam said: “The Jumhur - vast majority - hold that the prohibition of building up and plastering graves is one of preference (tanzih) *.”
Indeed, there is nothing wrong in signalling the graves of the awliya, as stipulated by Shaykh `Abd al-Ghani al-Nabulusi and others. See the article by Ustadha Umm Sahl under the subtitle: “Domes over the Grave of the Awliya.”](http://65.39.144.73/ISLAM/misc/nabulsi.htm)
Dawud ibn Salih said: "[The governor of Madina] Marwan [ibn al-Hakam] one day saw a man placing his face on top of the grave of the Prophet. He said: “Do you know what you are doing?” When he came near him, he realized it was Abu Ayyub al-Ansari. The latter said: “Yes; I came to the Prophet, not to a stone.” Narrated by Ahmad (5:422) and al-Hakim in his Mustadrak (4:515 “sahih”) cf. al-Subki in *Shifa’ al-siqam *(p. 126) and Ibn Taymiyya in al-Muntaqa (2:261f.).
The use of the word “stone” in the previous hadith, if authentic, indicates that the Prophet’s (saws) grave was built up with stone already in the time of Abu Ayyub al-Ansari (ra).
The Ulema cited two reasons for the permissibility of building up the grave or plastering it with gypsum: to protect it from collapse generally speaking, and to keep it in the public view if it is the grave of a Shaykh, a Scholar, or someone from the family of the Prophet (saws) as mentioned in Ibn `Abidin’s Hashiya (1:601).
Shaykh Ismail Haqqi said in his Qur'anic commentary *Ruh al-Bayan* under the verse "*The mosques of Allah may only be built and maintained by those who believe in Allah and the Day of Judgement, perform the prayers and give zakat, and are afraid of none other than Allah and they are those who are guided"* (9:18): [INDENT]Shaykh Abd al-Ghani al-Nabulusi said in Kashf al-Nur an Ashab al-Qubur *("The Unveiling of Light from the Occupants of the Graves") the sum of which is that a good innovation that agrees with the objectives of the Sacred Law is called a sunna. Thus, building domes over the graves of Scholars, friends of Allah (awliya') and the righteous and placing covers, turbans and cloth over them is permissible if the objective therein is to create reverence in the eyes of ordinary people so that they will not disdain the occupant of that grave. If the above were not the case, or if it were not in conformity with the Sunna, then ponder the statement of our Mother A’isha in Abu Dawud’s Sunan: “When the Negus died, we were told * that a light would be seen perpetually at his grave.”
[size=4]May Allah enlighten our understandings, our hearts, and our graves with His kindness and forgiveness. Amin.
[/INDENT][/size]*
It is absurd that you people think disobeying the Holy Prophet (S) is actually loving him.
I have posted clear Ahadeeth from Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim which are texts accepted as the most authentic sources after the Holy Qur'aan by all who calim to be Sunni (including Barelvi and Sufi Hazraat).
It is illogical to claim to believe in something and then deny it in practice.
All I got in return was people's personal opinions and the far fetched gibberish (of some Sufi attracted by the glitter of the East), none of that is the source of Islam, the source of Islam is the Qur'aan and Sunnah.
No where did I suggest that the grave of the Holy Prophet (S) should be destroyed or desecrated (naoozobillah), rather I said that the building over it should be removed and the grave-area seperated from the Mosque and made into a nice neat tidy graveyard in accordance with Shari'ah.
Ignorant people with tainted hearts are attracted to Shirk and visit tomb-shrines to pray, true Muslim's only find solace and joy in the worship of Allah and visiting His Darbaar's (Masaajid).
.......I have posted clear Ahadeeth from Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim......
.....
Reading some Arabic words is not enough, understanding them in their proper context is essential to understanding the true intent of our Messenger pbuh.
You feel that in the time starting with Messenger pbuh all the way to the extremists' fitna, no one understood these ahadees like you do now.
Thus your understanding exceeds all the Imams, and sahaba. As they were OK with the tombs and you are not.
......
.......
No where did I suggest that the grave of the Holy Prophet (S) should be destroyed or desecrated (naoozobillah),
rather I said that the building over it should be removed ..
Your #1 and #2 are the same. Just the words are being played around.
........
A)...Ignorant people with tainted hearts are
B) .... attracted to Shirk and visit tomb-shrines to pray,
...
A) --- It is audacious for a mortal to judge someone's heart. Only Allah knows what is in the hearts.
B).... Again it is not the duty for an individual to figure out the contents of the heart of a person who visits a tomb.
For your A and B, You should seek forgiveness from Allah that you as a human being tried to replace Him for the duty of judging people.
I urge you to practice what makes you happy, but never ever try to be a self-appointed Qazi in the matters of hearts.
We as ordinary human beings can judge only in the matters of Haqooq al Ibad and even that with great care and with plenty of witnesses.
It is absurd that you people think disobeying the Holy Prophet (S) is actually loving him.
I have posted clear Ahadeeth from Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim which are texts accepted as the most authentic sources after the Holy Qur'aan by all who calim to be Sunni (including Barelvi and Sufi Hazraat).
It is illogical to claim to believe in something and then deny it in practice.
All I got in return was people's personal opinions and the far fetched gibberish (of some Sufi attracted by the glitter of the East), none of that is the source of Islam, the source of Islam is the Qur'aan and Sunnah.
No where did I suggest that the grave of the Holy Prophet (S) should be destroyed or desecrated (naoozobillah), rather I said that the building over it should be removed and the grave-area seperated from the Mosque and made into a nice neat tidy graveyard in accordance with Shari'ah.
Ignorant people with tainted hearts are attracted to Shirk and visit tomb-shrines to pray, true Muslim's only find solace and joy in the worship of Allah and visiting His Darbaar's (Masaajid).
it's off topic but i would like to know, What do you think of the Saudi Government?
respected sister, it is strange of you to quote an authority like GF Haddad in this issue when his heretical views are crystal clear to everyone, at least to Ahlus Sunnah. Let’s see what he has to say:
There’s not a single ayah in the Qur’aan supporting this and in the ayah of Surah al-Kahf Allah Ta’ala narrates what happened: "(Remember) when they (the people of the city) disputed among themselves about their case, they said: “Construct a building over them, their Lord knows best about them,” (then) those who won their point said (most probably the disbelievers): “We verily shall build a place of worship over them.” Surah al-Kahf, 18:21 - interpretation of the meaning]. How can one deduce from this ayah the permissibility of bulding domes over graves?
how does these narrations, given that they’re saheeh, prove that it is permissible to build domes over graves? How does leaving a rock as purpose of recognizing the grave equals to building a dome? I would like to see an evidence for your claim that the Salaf built domes over graves. As an 'alim, you should be aware of the abandon statements from the 'ulama of Ahlus Sunnah forbidding this act. Even so, according to your criteria, this act is imperssible as it was the practice of Jews and Christians as the Messenger of Allah (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) said:'A’isha reported: Umm Habiba and Umm Salama made a mention before the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) of a church which they had seen in Abyssinia and which had pictures in it. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: **When a pious person amongst them (among the religious groups) dies they build a place of worship on his grave, and then decorate it with such pictures. They would be the worst of creatures on the Day of judgment in the sight of Allah. **[Saheeh Muslim: Book 004, Number 1076]
you do realize that the action of Imaam 'Ali (radiallahu anho) is against your belief and Imaam ibn al-Jawzi (rahimahullah) confirmed it. His action proves that the “Salaf” who built those tombs over graves were not authoritative Salaf. Either, they were ignorant of the ruling or were not among the pious Salaf. By definition, the people in the first three generation are called Salaf. However, you’ve to show that they were pious and authoritative Salaf, not some heretics, as being Salaf doesn’t quilfy you to be pious and authoritative Salaf.
WalaykumSalaam Respected Brother!
Please study Shaykh Haddad’s books before judging him. He’s a traditional muslim and doesn’t belong to any new firqa.
Here’s the correct translation of the ayah:
And so, some [people] said: “Erect a building in their memory;” God knows best what happened to them." Said they whose opinion prevailed in the end: “Indeed, we must surely raise a house of worship in their memory!”
Now probably you can understand Shaykh Haddad’s point, inshaAllah.
So you have no problem with marking the graves, good.
Where did Imam Shafi’ and other three Imam said “building a tomb or shrine over a grave is haram” ?
The links you gave are useless because I believe in traditional Islam not in a group that started few hundred years ago.
Why don't ahle hadith start their job of giving fatwas against the "royal" family of Saudi?
Why do they call themselves kings and princes when Prophet[SAW] never called himself a king but only a slave of Allah?
well, allhamdulillah, I’m well aware of Shaykh Haddad’s views and beliefs. He maybe a traditionalist Muslim in your book but he is not among Ahlus Sunnah even if he is following a Sunni madhab in fiqh. btw, i’m not making takfeer of him as I’m in no position to do so. He supports praying to dead directly, he is a Jahmiyyah and pseudo Ash’ari. I can go on but this should suffice.
ok, can you please explain how does this meaning of the ayah is different than what I posted, mind you we’re talking about the overall meaning and context? Or is it because Dr. Mohsin is a “heretical salafi, who tempers the books” as Shaykh Haddad would say? Anyway, Allah Ta’ala is narrating an event in the ayah and telling what other people said. When did the ayah say, Allah Ta’ala told them to do so? Maybe you or Shaykh can post the understanding of the Salaf or muhadeetheen regarding this ayah?
please sister, do not quote me out of context, I said:
“how does these narrations, given that they’re saheeh, prove that it is permissible to build domes over graves? How does leaving a rock as purpose of recognizing the grave equals to building a dome?”
note the emphasized part, I would only buy it if they’re saheeh. That’s why I said even so how would these narrations prove your case. And anyone can understand from the daahir (apparent) of these narrations that they don’t say that you can build toms over graves. Unless you can show it to me!
Can you please explain why do the evidences posted by Shaykh Haddad go against his view i.e. Imaam 'Ali (radiallahu anho) ordering to destroy the buildings over graves?
Imaam Nawawi (rahimahullah) stated the position of his madhab and that’s the view of Imaam Shafee’ee (rahimahullah) and let’s read it again:
“To build a structure over the the grave if its owned, then its makrooh and if its common maqbara [shrine] then it’s haram. It has been clearly mentioned by Imam Shafee’ee [rahimahullah] and others and Imam Shafee’ee [rahimahullah] said in his Kitaab al-Umm that I saw the Imams in Makkah ordering the removal of the buildings over the graves and this is supported by the hadeeth.” [Sharh Saheeh Muslim vol 1 page 312]
and here’s an explicit statment from the Imaam Shafee’ee (rahimahullah):
“I prefer that the soil used for a grave be no more than that dug for that grave. I like to see a grave raised above the ground the length of a hand or so. I prefer not to erect a structure over a grave or to whitewash it, for indeed this resembles decoration and vanity, and death is not the time for either of these things. I have never seen the graves of the Muhajirin or Ansar plastered. I have seen the Muslim authorities destroying structures in graveyards, and I have not seen any jurists object to this.”[Kitabul Umm]
and even Haafidh ibn Hajr Haytami (rahimahullah), who would be called “Shaykh ul-Islaam” by Shaykh Haddad, says: “We should not hesitate to destroy mosques and domes built over graves. These are worse than the mosque of adDirar, because these things are erected in disobedience to the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him. The Prophet, peace be upon him, has forbidden this and has ordered the destruction of raised graves. Every lamp or lantern placed over a grave must be removed. It is not correct to stop at a grave or make a vow at it”. [Fiqh-us-Sunnah]
Are my links useless because they debunk the incorrect 'aqeedah of Shaykh Haddad? allhamdulillah, indeed the traditional Islaam didn’t start few hundred years ago and neither the Ahuls Sunnah or the Ahl al-hadeeth. However, it is true that deviant beliefs started to emerge and people adopted them. Sister, rest of your questions are completely irrelevant to the topic in our hand. If you want to discuss this topic, open a new thread or pm me, Jazak Allah khayr.
I asked you to post the statement of Imam Shafi' and other three imam saying " building or tomb over qaboor is haram". I didn't ask for imam nawawi or any other imam's opinion.
Shaykh Haddad's maslak is relevent to this thread but the maslak of Saudi Kings is irrelevent, right.
What I got so far is that the person who started the thread just wants to have tomb part separated from masjid. For my humble understanding, a tomb must not be confused with masjid and a masjid should not be confused with a tomb. The hadiths from books are presented in first post and they seem pretty clear on it. Now if this seems to be a problem then no one but KSA authorities have to do it or to be informed.:) Personal opinions hardy achieve anything.
I do not know if people really think the actual tomb part is really a place of worship or its a masjid, so why worry. Its just happened to be in the vicinity after expansion and people visit it while worshipping in masjid area. (correct me if i am wrong).
Authourities stop people doing uncontrolled emotional acts there anyway.
P.S. Examples such as Taj mahal, pyramids do not have any relevance since they are only tombs.
...Examples such as Taj mahal, pyramids do not have any relevance since they are only tombs.
All the tombs in Jannat ul Baqih were just tombs too. No one tried to offer namaz there, because Masji nabvi is next door.
Still the new fitna destroyed all those wonderful buildings.
In fact the disease from Saudi Arabia has spread elsewhere too. And people are using the same ahadees to destroy tombs and historical monuments in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
^ I agree with your point 100 percent. But extremism goes in all directions. People start worshiping in tombs and think babagi buried there is the savior. That in my opinion is another 'fitnah'.
I could go on the detail but I think its suffice to say that tombs must not be considered a place of worship or vice versa and that is what I think was presented in first post.
......People start worshiping in tombs and think babagi buried there is the savior.
Oh bhai. You cannot judge people's hearts as to the fact if they are worshipping Allah or Babaji. That's Allah's job, not ours. Even if we try to, we cannot find out who is being worshiped and who is really in someone's heart. So let them do what they are doing as long as they don't come and force you to do something you don't want to do.
....... That in my opinion is another 'fitnah'.
.
bro, that may be true. Just remember that 'fitna" you talk about is not "zahir", but it is in the 'batin'. And only Allah can judge someone's batin. As I said earlier, worshiping is very very personal and private matter, so it should not be legislated. And Islam never ever legislate the worshipping. Even among 4 imams, method of worshiping varies however slightly. People say Mohammad pbuh worshiped different ways. Sometimes he said loud Ameen, sometimes he didn't. sometimes he put his hands up and sometimes down.
That clearly shows that Islam never wanted to set the worship in stone at least from zahir. Batin off course is a different story.
You are free to make a choice. You can avoid going to the tomb altogether. However that doesn't allow you or me to decide that others should not go to baba ji's mazar.
Allah knows what is inside is true. And definitely the act is a private matter. But what happens on these tombs is not something which can be called private worshiping.
You mentioned about 4 imams. And I do not know if anyone of them would approve what happens on these babagi mazaar.
Dead bodies are not to be worshiped which these guys do openly.
Besides the discussion is not how one should worship or what. The discussion was about the separation of tomb from masjid weather it be physical separation or conceptual. A simple concept. Which I tend to agree with.
Remind you I am not at all condoning intolerance. Intolerance is another fitnah in my book.
