The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

system · March 16, 2005, 3:48am

Do they mention, refer, teach any of these in schools of Pakistan either as literature, history or philosophy or social studies? After all these things happened ages before partition and so these belong as much to pakistanis as it does to Indians.

PyariCgudia · March 16, 2005, 4:15am

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

You're Madhanee, aren't you?

system · March 16, 2005, 4:19am

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

yaar why are you getting into this. Pakistani history starts at around the muslim invasions. Before that no one lived in what is now Pakistan. Never mind Pakistanis are actually Guptas. aka Banyas…

armughal · March 16, 2005, 5:00am

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

they might be taught in the fiction classes.... who knows....

suroor_ca02 · March 16, 2005, 5:16am

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

yes, they are frequently mentioned in world religion studies.

system · March 16, 2005, 4:33pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

^ thank you. one straight answer amongt a hundred smartalecs

system · March 16, 2005, 4:34pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

should bold be interesting?

Faisal · March 16, 2005, 6:07pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

The answer to the simple question is probably no, atleast as far as high school is concerned. They may cover those in some advanced courses in post-graduate level for world religions or something. I don’t know about that.

However, I have a question. Are they myths or reality? They = ramayan etc.

system · March 16, 2005, 6:11pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

^ who knows? I am happy whenever I read, hear or think of them. That makes it quite real.

Faisal · March 16, 2005, 6:16pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

I am glad you are happy. A lot of cultures have myths that originated hundreds and thousands of years ago. Like if you see some of those Japanese movies, where people are flying on trees and walking on water, while fighting.. I presume these are all coming from story-telling that evolved into what we now call as epics.

What kind of tales does Ramayan has?

system · March 16, 2005, 6:21pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

^ "All scripture are myths. It is upto the believer to make it real. " Prophet Chaltahai (pbuh) Circa 1999. :k:

nikhil25 · March 16, 2005, 6:54pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

the Mahabharata and Ramayana are classified as Hindu mythology, however each have roots. to what degree the epics reflect historical events is unknown, but the basic foundations (settings and characters) of both are historically documented.

the Mahabhrata is believed to be based on wars that took place in current-day Haryana (east Punjab), and of course the famous battle of Kurukshetra would’ve been in modern-day Kurukshetra (100 mile north of New Delhi).

most historians agree that a great war took place, but are not in agreement about the date (ranging from 100BC to 3000BC. there are plausible theories, but obviously nobody knows the exact circumstances.

i found al-Biruni’s analysis of the Mahabharata to be the most interesting.

here’s a sample of an Aryan-invasion based theory (an anti-Hindu view)…although the Aryans vs. Non-aryans piece is the controversial part of this theory (pure speculation), most of the other “facts” are well-documented

All accounts refer to the Mahabharata Wars, and especially the Battle of Kurukshetra as the most horrible of ancient times. The Pandavas raised 7 armies as opposed to the Kauravas’ 11. On the 14th day of the battle Arjun annihilated 5 of the 11 armies ( `akshoumin’ ) amassed by the Kauravas. Attacking the Pandavas, Drona destroyed 1 army, Karna 2, and Bhishma 1.

Al-Beruni has estimated that the total of 18 akshouhinis add up to 8,267,094 humans al-B.i.408 ]. A description of one of these invasions follows below :

" Saineya, destroying thy host, converted the beautiful earth into a mass of mud with the flesh and blood of thousands of Kambojas, Sakas Scythians ], Shabaras, Kiratas Mongoloid Keraits ] and Varvaras. The ground was covered with the shorn and hairless but long-bearded heads of the Dasyus Chadic Dajus ], and their helmets, as if with birds bereft of their plumes. "
– MBh.Dron.4747 ] Muir I.483 ]

It is now generally accepted that the Mahabharatan Wars actually took place & and are not myths :

It is mentioned as an itihaas' (history) and not a kavya’ or `katha’ (fairy-tale).

Dynastic details are mentioned. These would be probably omitted in fiction.

Dwarka, Krishna’s capital, has been discovered off the Gujarat sea-coast in a very important archaeological discovery by S.R.Rao.

Megasthenes’ Greek account, where he mentions that Chandragupta Maurya was the 138th king in descent from Krishna indicates that the general belief in India at that time was that the Mahabharata Wars actually took place.

Abul Fazl and other historians of the Delhi Empire treated these Mahabharatan persons as historical

if you notice, there is an insinuation that the wars of the Mahabharata were Aryan invasion wars. similarly, there has been much speculation that Rama was an Aryan warrior fighting against Dravidians (Ravana and co). of course, this is extremely insulting to Hindus, but it is a commonly offered theory. in all likelihood, there was a King Dasharatha of Ayodhya with 2 prince sons called Ram and Laxman. there is no way of knowing whether or not their reported endeavors and activities actually took place. my guess is that the fantastical elements (army of monkeys, Ravana having 10 heads, etc.) are added pieces to a likely real basic plot.

of course it goes without saying, the value of these epics is wholly unrelated to the historical validity of the storied events. we will never know the actual degree of validity ranging from 0% to 100%.

Faisal · March 16, 2005, 7:17pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

Its easy to understand that many tales, when repeated often, get additional mirch masala to make it even more appealing to the listeners. Its not limited to hinduism, either. Some Islamic stories, as well as those in Far East have the same kinda surreal elements to them. I think after a few hundreds of years, it becomes increasingly difficult to separate fact from fiction, and story tellers take advantage of this.

In any case, presumably there were some wars that took place. Someone lost and someone won. How is all this historic stuff related to hindu religion anyway and the concept of one God - Bhagwaan? Is Rama considered a prophet of God by hindus?

Agent_Smith · March 16, 2005, 7:46pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

Did giant size monkeys and elephant with 4 trunks and 16 legs take any part in that war?

ab-e-hayat · March 16, 2005, 8:07pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

Rama is not a prophet according to Hinduism. He is seen as an incarnation of God Himself in a mortal form.

nikhil25 · March 16, 2005, 9:38pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

Rama is considered an incarnation God, not a prophet.

btw, in my first post i referred mostly to the historical validity of the Mahabharata rather than the Ramayana.

i forgot about something that was in the news a while back…a few years ago NASA captured images of what it named Adam’s Bridge, and is called the Ramayan Bridge in India and Sri Lanka…which is a very thin passage from India to SL through the Palk Strait. i’m not sure if you are familiar with the epic or not, but the climax comes when Rama and his army cross a chain of shoals (sand elevation) to Sri Lanka and fight/defeat an enemy king called Ravan of Lanka (also freeing Rama’s wife Sita).

supposedly the bridge’s unique curvature and composition by age suggest that it is man-made, and left unnoticed due to submergence under water…who knows, but it certainly corresponds to, and perhaps corroborates, this part of the Ramayana. i thought it was an interesting thing to think about.

Crescent · March 16, 2005, 9:40pm

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im done

system · March 16, 2005, 10:14pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

^ good. don't let your supply of gasX run out again

system · March 16, 2005, 10:22pm

Re: The Greatest epics - Ramayan and Mahabharath

??? who the hell is madhanee and what’s the nature of your relationship?

No, I am not mad honey or scientist or hatter