The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Muslim..]

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

That said, I will give you some examples of how each question may be answered, though these are just one of many way to answer them.

  • yeah, it may cause disunity of some people who take their 'god' to be better than others. And it may prevent disunity amongst other people who each can accept what comforts them most and don't feel the necessity to convince others that their god is greatest

  • covered above

  • may be everything is one god; may be many gods are part of big one god; may be everything is not god or may be there is no god and therefore it is all imaginary and imagery. each person's mind is going to tell them their truth which will change with time.

  • and what's wrong with capsulation, encapsulation and binding etc? if you consider god to be omnipotent, doesn't that include god is capable of being encapsulated too? if you consider god to be omnipresent. doesn't it mean he is in everything and therefore everything? and therefore 'knowledge' being a thing too, omniscience being a omnipresence? or 'all knowing' is omnipotent?

  • anybody who 'needs' something is normally humble before somebody who can give it. So if you say 'humans need to realize ...." there is your answer re humility right there.

mind you, each of these are just a way to answer each question and there are many ways.

To accept any philosophical assertion as truth, a person's individual maturity is a major factor.

~~~ Missing someone ~~~
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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

Don't consider that my posts are retaliatory in nature.

Inspite of having "ONE" god, haven't muslims divided themselves for one reason or the other???....

[quote]
Would the Gods not be compared with each other in contest to say who is greater?
[/quote]

Yes.

[quote]
If there is only One God then how can everything BE god?
[/quote]

That is just one of the philosophies of "hinduism". It is your "I" consciousness which makes u think that you are seperate from "THAT".

If i explain it rudimentarily(sort of), our human or animal bodies is made of same physical components. There must be something "inside" in all of us, which makes us to move around or think, be it animals or humans. I mean, That same "something" is spread "within" all of us. I hope you understood. That something is often referred to as "THAT" or may be even GOD.

[quote]
Can it be that omnipotence, omniscience has been confused for omnipresent?
[/quote]

We all are able to move around or think, because "THAT" is omnipresent. The moment it withdraws itself from all of us, we all must die(As per the philosophy of one particular school in "hinduism")....

Disclaimer: i haven't seen what all I wrote though i find it interesting.

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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

Peace StirCrasy

I don't consider God to be omnipresent ... I consider God to be omniexclusive to coin myself a word.

However, omniscience and omnipotence is often misunderstood or assimilated with omnipresent. If one wants to believe metaphysical by philosophical constructs of the power vs limitation paradox then people will need to reject the objective for the subjective, which is not Islamic. For us objective evidence takes higher priority of subjective evidence.

Therefore we cannot agree with the statement "God can become man, if not then we limit the power of God" because by trying too hard to fulfil the requirement of 'power' we end up breaking down the rational aspects. i.e. that man is unGodlike.

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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

^ I am sorry Psyah but I have no idea what you are saying except you don't agree with something. At least I haven't said anything you or anyone else "must" agree with, so I wish you well in your searches.

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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli


How is this any different than Islam? How can one possibly understand Islam without going beyond holy books and study Muhammad + his companions + early imams + mujtahids + later imams + culture + history + Arabic, etc...

I think people who believe a religion is totally objective and scientific have a hard time grasping a more complex religion like Hinduism. It's not as simplistic as "I am ONE angry and jealous God that revealed everything in ONE language to ONE prophet without any room for interpretation."

BTW, the title should be changed. It's disrespectful to have "the God concept of Hinduism" alongside something so heinous.

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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

Apologies StirCrasy

I understand your perspective but through restrictions which I am comfortable to apply to my common sense dictate that objective reasoning takes priority over subjective reasoning. That is why I can believe in God being All Powerful but cannot believe that due to God being all powerful it means God 'can' become man, because that would create a paradox with the objective sense that man is not godlike therefore is not God. By God becoming not God purely because we argue that we limit the power of God if we don't allow it, then we cause errors in the predicate of the argument, i.e. we need to define God before we can determine the function. If the function redefines the defined term then effectively the object i.e. God was not God in the first place.

To worship therefore a tree or an animal goes against common sense because common sense dictates that these things cannot help us and do not deserve our worship, but using the pantheistic argument that God resides in all or all are part of God, then this conflicts with the objetive common sense and one should take priority over the other.

Islam gives priority to the common sense objective view and fills the gap with reflexive theological constructs, these are restricted to the framework of Islam as prescribed by the Quran and Sunnah. There are in other words defined criteria for our beliefs in order to sustain a standard and benchmark of understanding.

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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

There is nothing objective in saying God is all powerful because there is no way to objectively prove it.

Similarly it is nit objective to assert God is all powerful but in the same sentence qualify it as 'except I cannot agree that God can become man'.

The potential paradox you are fearing is therefore due to constraints of your current limitations in understanding objectivity and reasoning.

Perhaps foreseeing such self-imposed limits to reasoning amongst people, the Hinduism allows for different levels of knowledge, intellect and abilities amongst people and encourages self realization over worship.

Worshipping a tree or an animal is totally within reason for those who believe God is in everything. In fact it is common sense for nearly a billion people, so 'objectively' speaking it is not all that uncommon. As mentioned earlier, what is needed in such worship is the understanding that you are worshipping God through that object.

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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

actually there isn’t anything bad said about any other religion and in fact he tries to show a lot of the similarities between the various religions. I could only find one or two links telling something about the book but they really don’t do the book justice because there isn’t that much from the book in them.

Anyway, check this one link out:
http://www.hindunet.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1821&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

God is everywhere. God is not "in" a place or time.

It is wrong to think that those who hold that belief think he "becomes" a man or tree - it's not as if he stops being the entity he is to transform into something different. God is in all of us. He is throughout nature. He is throughout the universe.

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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

How to define God(if at all it exists)??..is it some one who looks like a human, or some like Krishna or jesus or any physical entity??...

Shouldn't god be "infinity" or infinite energy??..if that infinite energy gets confined to something finite form(any form be it human or animal), shouldn't rest of the universe die off or be inactive??..I guess all this 'avatara', god sitting in heaven, god in animal form or taking forms, are unreal and are just stories.

Tic-tac-toe
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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

Peace StirCrasy

The fact that there are paradoxes in those above constructs means that I cannot fathom the truth in those statements. I need to therefore decide one over the other. For me Islam prescribes to me that Allah (SWT) is All Powerful but it does not prescribe for me that man is God rather declares that nothing is or can be like God, therefore I choose the former as my basis by dismissing the idea that man is God and confirming the idea that man is unlike God.

I then go to test that idea by looking for a man that is godlike. God tells us He is never born ... then anything born is not God, and so on. We need to objectify our reasoning by a self-consistent source. That is the Islamic perogative.

God being All Powerful comes from a different distillation process regarding the Nature and Qualities of God. We need to understand that these perplex us but the objectiveness in our understanding is that what is said must be:

  • Referenced by authentic scripture
  • Consistent with itself
  • Makes sense within the constructs of its own argument
  • Compatible with our working norms

Paradoxes are not self-consistent they are self-destructive. Two opposite things cannot be true at the same time. God and Not God cannot be true in the same 'Object' or we end up betraying our fitrah which is our guide to understanding. If it is possible for two opposite things to be true at the same time then we need to be shown evidence of that being the case, not asked more rhetorical questions. We need something to compare the claim with in the framework that we do understand ... such as the universe.

That is what I mean by objective ... really I mean we test the claim by 'objectifying' the claim to a construct that we do understand.

If I were to say the red ball is green I would be called

  • mad
  • liar

It is therefore not a higher form of understanding of God by entertaining such thoughts of multiplicity ... it is a form that leads to either diffuse inane concepts such as ... "I am god I do what I say" or no one will believe me because it is a "lie" that has been uttered. The reason why we must extrapolate is because the argument may seem sound enough in the mind ... it is quite powerful the mind is ... but does it really work?

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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

You cannot fathom something so you decide on a path based on an external prescription. That is fine as a matter of faith but hardly objective.

Secondly, don't you think it is possible that what may not be fathomable for you at a point in time may become fathomable in due course, if only you will continue seeking knowledge and thinking trough rather than concluding it to be a paradox and being forced to adopt something?

As thought progresses we will encounter numerous such not so readily resolvable contradictions. The word maya describes the theatre perfectly and Dharmic thinking provides the analytical techniques to pierce through such maya.

That is why we refer to the Kurukshetra within. That war goes on in each of our minds constantly. Sri Krishna providing a logical argument called Srimad Bhagwat Gita rather than simply making Arjuna fight is an example of what I am talking about.

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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

Seminole, you got me wrong. A false approch to discuss on this.
The very basics of a religion starts with some facts well known to one. Like historic events, tradition, culture and the time where this all took place and those involved in those events.
I had my argument on how one can confirm on that the belief is still Hinduism, since a lot has been changed and is changing til now. If I say I am a Muslim and I follow Islam I do state this on two profound reasons:

  1. I have Quran, God's revelation (which iremain unchanged)

  2. the Hadith, transmittion on the authority of our Prophet (s.a.w) of his deeds, sayings etc. (again very authentic, especially Bukhari's sources)

But how can I say a source from an author (a human being) to be as trustworthy and thus can make me convince of the "do" and "do nots" of a religion? I would rather take the gita, vedas as sources to acknowledge as being more authentic then a book written by some author including his own views and opinions.

So my very purpose of discussion is, I believe hinduism to be monotheism but was changed over the years by Its followers (not arguing of wrong or right!), therefore hinduism in any case Is not the religion any more once It used to be. But Is it then hinduism?!

Dreading my rukhsati day....
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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

Peace StirCrasy

I understand the terms you use already. I do not believe logical contradictions can be resolved, doesn't matter how long you ponder over them. They can be ignored and favoured for the esoteric explanations, but they cannot be resolved.

It is our premise that we only resort to esoteric explanations if they do not defy our normal operations and if there is an example that can be given in normal day to day life that approaches it by comparison. We are not allowed to form arguments to our belief system based on Mutashabihah or analogous terminology, these words are only there so we can get an idea of what things might be like not how they are.

You say Dharmic thinking provides tools to pierce through the maya, but that infers that the maya is at loggerheads with the conclusions of the Dharmic thinking. There is no premise in this for us. The only reason why you require Maya to be pierced is because you basis (or your biases) oblige you to reconcile the irreconcilable.

It's like me saying this ...

I am trapped in a room with no windows no doors and there is a table in the corner how do I get out?

What I do is I strike the table with my hand to make it sore, I take the saw and cut the table in half, I put the two halves together making a whole and get the hole and put it on the wall to climb out.

This is a play on similar sounding words, it solves the problem i.e. pierces through the maya, but this type of (Dharmic) thinking is only 'real' in the mind or ear in this case.

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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

how? Maya is the problem to solve. Thinking is the solution process and Dharma is the knowledgebase of cause and effect. Where is the question of loggerhead here?

Anyway, think it through and hope you find your answers!

Timepass
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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism [split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

Peace again

So Maya is the paradoxial constructs and Dharma is a method to reconcile the paradox, my initial conclusion in my previous post still stands.

uncles and aunties..
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Re: The God Concept of Hinduism split: 11 Hindu Extremists jailed for raping a Musli

As mentioned earlier, your conclusions will always stand for you. But they will change as you change. And that will happen over time ofcourse.

Also just a small correction - Dharma is not a method in this example; the "thinking" process is the method. Dharma provides some of the knowledge base.