O dear Bubble Buster... now you are turning me on. I am enjoying your language beyond any other worldly pleasures. Ah!
X2 – Ya habibi hiya hiya!!
Ghazi:
Ignore the excess baggage of humman life. You know about whom I am talking about? They can only BS, but can't debate. They are the products of ignorance.
Bubble Buster
"You mess with the BEST
You LOSE like the REST!"
Ahmadi bhaya you kill me with laugh... smoooooochiee
I asked BB who was flaunting his “supposed knowledge on Islam” for discussion on valid subject matter that much of the orginal Quran was burned, while other parts were rewritten; instead I get:
“because it is your prejudicial statement…..."
SO WHERE IS YOUR PROOF”
“Stop copying lies from Christian missionary sites”
My favourite "MY GUESS IS THAT (A) YOU ARE A SHIA (B) AHMADI (C) OTHER. However, what is your faith?"
By the way, I am muslim. I also requested BB that when replying to pls confine answers to the questions posed. Instead, I got seven separate posts which does NOT address the basic qerries. So, I’ll try and put those questions again along with the refernces from well-known Islamic scholars.
1)BB: Do you reject that during the Prophet’s (pbuh) life time, the Quran was never compiled into one volume, instead the Koran was written down on paper, on skin, on the branches of palm trees, on thin stone, on shoulders and side bones of animals and, mostly retained in memories of Prophets close friends (Sahaba)?
Not only were the Koranic writings disorganized, but there were seven different versions of them. Prophet Muhammad said in the Hadith: The Koran has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it that which is easier for you (Sahih-al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, page 510).
2)BB: Do you reject that the collection of the Koran into a single volume was something Prophet Muhammad did not do or authorize?
It was Caliph Omer who, after much discussion, persuaded Abu-Bakr to order the collection of the Koran. Hazrat Abu-Bakr ordered Zaid Ibn Sabit to do the job( reference:Al-Mush Al-Shareef, page 59,60).
Zaid Ibn Sabit agreed to collect the various pieces of the Koran. However, when Islam became the religion of many countries, every country used the version of the Koran which was known among them: the Syrians read AbiKaab’s version, the people of Kofa read Abdallah Ibn Massoud’s version, others read Abu Moussa Alashaby’s version and so on.
3)BB: Do you reject that when Caliph Usman took the caliphate, he was confronted by such confusion and sedition concerning the reading of the Koran in the different Islamic countries that he ordered it to be rewritten?
Usman ordered Zaid Ibn Sabit and three other men form Quraysh, Abdullah Ibn Al-Zubeer,Saeed Ibn El-Uss, and Abdelrahman Ibn Al-Harith Ibn Hesham, to rewrite the Koran.
It was Caliph Usman’s order to the scribes: " If you disagree with Zaid Ibn Sabit in anything of the Koran,write it in the language of Quraysh, because the Koran was revealed in the language of Quraysh." They did. (Al-Mushaf Al-Shareef, Pages 66,70).
4)BB: Do you reject that after Caliph Usman completed 'his Koran' he forced all the Islamic countries to have one Koran - and banned all other codices?
He finished the matter by BURNING all other codices of the Koran. When Hazrat Usman banned whichever he banned from the Koran, and burned whichever he burned of it, he banned passages Allah has revealed and burned parts of the Koran which were given to the Muslims by the messenger of Allah.
He appointed a small group of the Sahaba (close friends of Prophet) to rewrite the Koran and left out those who heard the prophet and memorized what he said. This is why Ibn Massoud was angry, because he was one of the best men who memorized the Koran. He said that he took from the mouth of the prophet seventy suras of the Koran while Zaid Ibn Sabit was yet a young lad.
5)BB: Do you reject that when Ibn Massoud objected to the burning of the other codices of the Koran, Uthman took him out of the mosque with violence, and struck him to the ground, and broke one of his ribs? (REFERENCE: The Great Sedition, pages 160,161,181,182 written by Dr. Taha Hussein , a well known author, college professor, and minister of education in Egypt.
.
CONCLUSION: It is very clear that much of the original Koran was burned, while other parts were rewritten.
How can we reconcile these historical facts with the following words of the Koran?
Nay, this is a Glorious Koran [inscribed] in a Tablet preserved (Sarat Al-Buru 85:21,22).
That this is indeed a Koran most honorable in a book well guarded ( Sarat Al-Waqiah 56:77,78).
If the Koran was inscribed in “a tablet preserved,” and in “a book well-guarded,” why was it necessary for Caliph Usman to rewrite the Koran?
How could he burn the other codices? Why were there other codices in the first place?
These are very serious questions regarding a book said to be God’s word.
Again, Bubble kindly not waste time blaming all who question as anti-Islam or, quoting from texts which have no relevance to the subject matter.
The Final Sermon of the Prophet(PBUH):
[Please note UPPERCASE LETTERS are Highlighted points.]
This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of Dhul Hijjah 10 A.H. in the "Uranah valley of Mount Arafat"(in Mecca).
After praising, and thanking Allah, He(PBUH) said:"
"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this Year, I shal ever be amongst you again. `Therefor listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.'
O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so REGARD THE LIFE AND PROPERTY OF EVERY MUSLIM AS A SACRED TRUST. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. HURT NO ONE SO THAT NO ONE MAY HURT YOU. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. Allah has forbidden you to take usury(interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your Capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest that all the interest due to Abbas Ibn 'Abd'l Muttalib(the deceased Prophet's(pbuh) Uncle) shall henceforth be waived.
BEWARE OF SATAN, FOR THE SAFETY OF YOUR RELIGION. HE HAS LOST ALL HOPE THE HE WILL EVER BE ABLE TO LEAD YOU ASTRAY IN BIG THINGS, SO BEWARE OF FOLLOWING HIM IN SMALL THINGS.
O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right, then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. DO TREAT YOUR WOMEN WELL AND BE KIND TO THEM FOR THEY ARE YOUR PARTNERS AND COMMITTED HELPERS. And it is your right that they do not make freinds with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.
O PEOPLE, LISTEN TO ME IN EARNEST, WORSHIP ALLAH, SAY YOUR FIVE DAILY PRAYERS(SALAH), FAST DURING THE MONTH OF RAMADAN, AND GIVE YOUR WEALTH IN ZAKAT. PERFORM HAJJ IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO.
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white--except by piety and good action. LEARN THAT EVERY MUSLIM IS A BROTHER TO EVERY MUSLIM AND THAT THE MUSLIMS CONSTITUTE ONE BROTHERHOOD. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. DO NOT, THEREFORE, DO INJUSTICE TO YOURSELVES.
REMEMBER, ONE DAY YOU WILL APPEAR BEFORE ALLAH AND ANSWER YOU DEEDS. SO BEWARE, DO NOT STRAY FROM THE PATH OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AFTER I AM GONE.
PEOPLE, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. REASON WELL, THERFORE, O PEOPLE, AND UNDERSTAND WORDS WHICH I CONVEY TO YOU.** I LEAVE BEHIND ME TWO THINGS, THE QURAN AND MY EXAMPLE, THE SUNNAH(HADITH--came later),** AND IF YOU FOLLOW THESE YOU WILL NEVER GO ASTRAY.
ALL THOSE WHO LISTEN TO ME SHALL PASS ON MY WORDS TO OTHERS AND THOSE TO OTHERS AGAIN; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people"
NOTE: IN HIS LAST SERMON PROPHET MUHAMMMED (SAW) DID MENTION NOBLE QURAN (nothing else)...One unit not the bones, skin, paper, leaves, fabirc ....
By the way where are those seven posts. I don't see them? Why you conveniently side stepped what BB responded to your rhetoric. I don't believe that you are a Muslim at all. May be Shia.
1)BB: Do you reject that during the Prophet’s (pbuh) life time, the Quran was never compiled into one volume, instead the Koran was written down on paper, on skin, on the branches of palm trees, on thin stone, on shoulders and side bones of animals and, mostly retained in memories of Prophets close friends (Sahaba)?
** The revelation period is 23 years. Noble Quran was preserved in the lifetime of Prophet Muhammed(SAW) after revelation was complete. Preservation secured in multiple forms and manners including what you mentioned.**
Not only were the Koranic writings disorganized, but there were seven different versions of them. Prophet Muhammad said in the Hadith: The Koran has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it that which is easier for you (Sahih-al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, page 510).
** Noble Quran is devine, Ahadeeth are not divine. Keep this in mind.**
2)BB: Do you reject that the collection of the Koran into a single volume was something Prophet Muhammad did not do or authorize?
** There is evidence that it was done in the life time of Prophet Muhammed. There is no proof of what you are talking about?**
It was Caliph Omer who, after much discussion, persuaded Abu-Bakr to order the collection of the Koran. Hazrat Abu-Bakr ordered Zaid Ibn Sabit to do the job( reference:Al-Mush Al-Shareef, page 59,60).
** It does not prove anything. You are purposely mixing apples and oranges here.**
Zaid Ibn Sabit agreed to collect the various pieces of the Koran. However, when Islam became the religion of many countries, every country used the version of the Koran which was known among them: the Syrians read AbiKaab’s version, the people of Kofa read Abdallah Ibn Massoud’s version, others read Abu Moussa Alashaby’s version and so on.
** Again you are mixing apples and oranges and twisting facts to fit in your agenda.**
3)BB: Do you reject that when Caliph Usman took the caliphate, he was confronted by such confusion and sedition concerning the reading of the Koran in the different Islamic countries that he ordered it to be rewritten?
** Non-sense and it is not true account.**
Usman ordered Zaid Ibn Sabit and three other men form Quraysh, Abdullah Ibn Al-Zubeer,Saeed Ibn El-Uss, and Abdelrahman Ibn Al-Harith Ibn Hesham, to rewrite the Koran.
** You are very selective to poison the issue by using the word re-write. Before press was invented, everything was re-written over and over again. Depends on its demand.**
It was Caliph Usman’s order to the scribes: " If you disagree with Zaid Ibn Sabit in anything of the Koran,write it in the language of Quraysh, because the Koran was revealed in the language of Quraysh." They did. (Al-Mushaf Al-Shareef, Pages 66,70).
** Not true again same deceptive tactics are used by you.**
4)BB: Do you reject that after Caliph Usman completed 'his Koran' he forced all the Islamic countries to have one Koran - and banned all other codices?
** Damn lie and twisted account of events.**
He finished the matter by BURNING all other codices of the Koran. When Hazrat Usman banned whichever he banned from the Koran, and burned whichever he burned of it, he banned passages Allah has revealed and burned parts of the Koran which were given to the Muslims by the messenger of Allah.
** Again, you are using deception, lies and misrepresenting the facts.**
He appointed a small group of the Sahaba (close friends of Prophet) to rewrite the Koran and left out those who heard the prophet and memorized what he said. This is why Ibn Massoud was angry, because he was one of the best men who memorized the Koran. He said that he took from the mouth of the prophet seventy suras of the Koran while Zaid Ibn Sabit was yet a young lad.
{b] Already answered above. You Shia bastard is implying that Quran was changed. A lie.**
5)BB: Do you reject that when Ibn Massoud objected to the burning of the other codices of the Koran, Uthman took him out of the mosque with violence, and struck him to the ground, and broke one of his ribs? (REFERENCE: The Great Sedition, pages 160,161,181,182 written by Dr. Taha Hussein , a well known author, college professor, and minister of education in Egypt.
** Bullshit.**
.
CONCLUSION: It is very clear that much of the original Koran was burned, while other parts were rewritten.
** SO WHY A REWRITTEN AND CHANGED QURAN ACCORDING TO YOUR LIOES AND DECEPTION IS A PERFECT BOOK? CARE TO EXPLAIN THAT?
How can we reconcile these historical facts with the following words of the Koran?
** WHAT WE CRAP IS ALL ABOUT? SINCE WHEN YOU ARE ONE OF US?**
Nay, this is a Glorious Koran [inscribed] in a Tablet preserved (Sarat Al-Buru 85:21,22).
That this is indeed a Koran most honorable in a book well guarded ( Sarat Al-Waqiah 56:77,78).
If the Koran was inscribed in “a tablet preserved,” and in “a book well-guarded,” why was it necessary for Caliph Usman to rewrite the Koran?
{b} Listen birbbrain, you all don’t like first three Caliphs, you have proved that again. So what you are telling us? What is your point?**
How could he burn the other codices? Why were there other codices in the first place?
** These are complexed and delicate issues. You brain is not equipped to handle them. Find some other hobby.**
These are very serious questions regarding a book said to be God’s word.
** Not to me and i.5 billion Muslims. Talk to CNN they might interview you.**
Again, Bubble kindly not waste time blaming all who question as anti-Islam or, quoting from texts which have no relevance to the subject matter.
** Let me tell you why? Because a Muslim know that you are lying and will never question like that. If you are Muslim tell me the forms of Kufr? WE have posted here.A Muslim does explore facts without compromising his/her IMAAN.**
Ghazi
Facts Are The Authority!
[This message has been edited by Ghazi (edited April 05, 2000).]
Dear faceup (Muslim impersonator)
If your rhetoric is correct then why Prophet Muhammed (SAW) used exact these words in his last sermon?
“I LEAVE BEHIND ME TWO THINGS, THE QURAN AND MY EXAMPLE, THE SUNNAH.”
He used the word QURAN a single unit, which is clear evidence that Quran was compiled as ONE in his life. The revelation process took 23 years. There is no doubt about how Noble Quran was preserved. But rest of your post is non-sense. I don’t believe that you are a Muslim. Even if you were you have gone astray. The style and objection link you to be a Shia.
TELL ME WHY IN HIS LAST SERMON PROPHET MUHAMMED (SAW) USED THE WORD QURAN? WHAT PROOF YOU HAVE THAT NOBLE QURAN WAS NOT COMPILED IN HIS LIFE.
Irrefragable
Islaam Is The *ONLY Solution! *****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers]. Noble Quran 3:85*
Irrefragable,
You misunderstand the word "COMPILE". The word means to accumulate or collect together in one book.
The Quran was delivered, as you indicate, over 23 years and was COMPLETE but it was scattered all over the place.
The actual compilation or collection was done after the passing away of the Prophet and lots of wrong happened to the quran when it was put together or collected in one volume.
Having cleared that up, could you and Bubble please go back to my post of April 4, 09:13PM and respond to the 5 questions and points raised in the conclusion statement.
Again, thanks for the compliments like:
"muslim impersonator"
". I don’t believe that you are a Muslim. Even if you were you have gone astray."
"The style and objection link you to be a Shia."
You will certainly go to Paradise!
faceup:
I have already responded to you on April 04, 2000 at 10:29 AM,(Iwould also like you to respond to my posts of same date at 11:29 AM and 11:47 AM) look above. However, it is astonishing that you misrepresented the truth by stating seven posts, (there are no seven posts addressed to you by me) as usual like you are doing about Quran. So you owe an answer, not the other way around. Having said that you must prove you claims rather passing judgement.
Bubble Buster
"You mess with the BEST
You LOSE like the REST!"
[This message has been edited by Bubble Buster (edited April 05, 2000).]
Ghazi, is this Last Sermon of the Prophet, a part of Kuran or is written separately? If it is separate of Kuran, what is the oldest copy(written form) of it available?
Thanks
Najoomi
[quote]
Originally posted by Najoomi:
**Ghazi, is this Last Sermon of the Prophet, a part of Kuran or is written separately? If it is separate of Kuran, what is the oldest copy(written form) of it available?
Thanks
Najoomi**
[/quote]
Hi Najomi:
No the last sermon of Prophet Muhammed (SAW) is not a part of Quran. It is a part of Islamic religious records like Ahadeeth. So it was written/recorded seperatley. The oldest copy is available since the day it was delivered. However, later it was organised with other record like Ahadeeth. What is posted here is an English translation of it.
Bubble Buster
"You mess with the BEST
You LOSE like the REST!"
Dear faceup,
Welcome to the jungle :)
faceup:
Despite of the Kufr you have been spewing you claim to be Muslim. My questions are:
1) What do you think IMAAN is?
2) What are the arakaan of Imaan?
3) What is Kufr?
4) What do you know about types of Kufr?
5) How a book written centuries after Quran can take precedent over a divine scripture?
6) If the Quran was changed and rewritten can you prove errors and contradictions in Quran?
7) Do you agree that a human cannot write a perfect book?
8) How you explain the scientific and astronomical facts in Noble Quran an alleged re-written book according to you that are discovered by modern science now? Whose work is that? Which Caliph has that knowledge over 14 centuries ago?
9) If actual Quran does not exist according to you, why so why are you still Muslim?
10) What is your Imaan?
11) How you have modified your Imaan?
12) How do you know that your Imaan is correct in the absence of actual Quran?
13) You still want to use false accusations and claim to be Muslim?
14) How can you claim to be a Muslim when according to you Quran does not exist?
15) How you can be one of us having a totally different belief?
Ghazi
Facts Are The Authority!