The Future of Sindh by Mumtaz Ali Bhutto

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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This was a good speech and despite that I do not agree with Saeen Mumtaz Ali Bhutto on every issue, he presented Sindh’s dilemma in a concise yet accurate way.

http://www.thesindh.com/sncEvents/hrDay2k4/sp2.asp

IS THERE A FUTURE FOR SINDH?

There comes a time in a nation’s history when the people become the masters of their own destiny. That time has now come for Sindh and her future lies in the hands of Sindhis. But, arguably, Sindh’s greatest tragedy is that even in these perilous times characterised by all kinds of threats, dangers and a plethora of chronic as well as acute problems, this soil can count on very few loyal and sincere sons to raise a voice for it. Everyone, from the common had and labourer to the political leaders and rulers, has his personal and political interests closer to heart than the national interests of his motherland and its future.

The people are the fount of all power. Any state and its vast mosaic of institutions are only a reflection of the nature of the people. If something is wrong in the body politic, if the leaders are stepping out of line, if the system is being perverted, then the people have to set it right either through the ballot box or by revolution. If conditions half as perilous as those that prevail here were to arise in any civilised society, the people would rise in a hurricane of discontent and governments would topple and heads would roll. This happened in Georgia recently where the people came out into the streets and forcibly changed their government. But the Sindhi people seem to have a very high threshold of pain and tolerance. They complain about all the evils under the sun but never do anything about it. In an effort to shrug all responsibility from their shoulders, the people often claim that only when the Sindhi leaders unite on a single. platform can anything be achieved. But history does not support this assertion. To the contrary, history shows that it is only when the people unite on a single platform that meaningful change occurs. The unification of leaders or parties has never achieved any significant or durable results. Revolutions in France, Russia, China and America took place when the masses united. In Pakistan also, the late Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was able to topple not one but two successive military dictators because he had the strength of the masses with him. He did not call for alliances between all parties or leaders but instead took on the might of the armed forces alone with his own party.

The people of Sindh will have to unite in a struggle to defend the rights and vital interests of Sindh. Time is running out. The motherland is calling out to her sons. Will anyone answer her call? The future of Sindh depends upon the answer to this question.

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Re: The Future of Sindh by Mumtaz Ali Bhutto

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
The people of Sindh will have to unite in a struggle to defend the rights and vital interests of Sindh. Time is running out. The motherland is calling out to her sons. Will anyone answer her call?
[/QUOTE]

I think Sindhi leaders should move forward with plans to unite Sinh with India. Sindh has no future as part of Pakistan.

Come to think of it none of the provinces have a future as part of Pakistan.

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^ If you are going through a rough patch in life would you give up your kids to a more resourceful person who is doing better than you?

giving-up and running away from problems and issues is not an option.

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Re: The Future of Sindh by Mumtaz Ali Bhutto

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
The motherland [Sindh] is calling out to her sons. Will anyone answer her call?

[/QUOTE]

Sindhi Motherland has been calling for a long time. Unfortunately Bhatoo family, the Jaoti family, and the Pagara family are all sleeping in their hujras, while accumulating great wealth and land at the cost of Sindhi people.

We all need to ask these lazy a$$ leaders as to how much land they have donated in the name of girls schools, women colleges, or hospitals?

Is there a Bhatto Technical University well known around the world? French revolution? What is this Bhatoo thinking? His A$$ will be hung on the trees if there is a French style revolution in Sindh. These corrupt ba$tards have been living in Sindh for the last 100 years and not one big name school, or not one big name hospital has been established.

Don't give me crap about some low life clinics. I am asking for cancer hospitals, cardiology expertise. These fat a$$ intellectuals go to Karachi or Europe for their medical treatment and then come back and give us these foolish lectures.

Robber barons of Sindh are now trying to be the "protectors" of the motherland. Heck yeah! Give them more power so they could add a few more thousands of acres in their holdings.

It is time to demand better public facilities from these fat A$$ nationalists. How many of PONAM are big fat land lords. We need to see if they are willing to part with just 2% of their land for the use of Sindhi people. We want libraries, schools, hospitals, and interstate highways.

O Mr. Bhatoo, are you willing to step up to the plate? Or you going to be just like another fat a$$ sitting in London.

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Re: Re: The Future of Sindh by Mumtaz Ali Bhutto

Joining with Indian will not solve our problems, but may increase them. The solution now lies in self determination if the Pakistani establishment continues to not only ignore us but subvert our interests.

antiobl, http://www.szabist.edu.pk/
The problem of waderas is very real in Sindh, but Sindhis can find the way to solve these problems when we are free from the clutches of generals and the establishment.

The disconnect and alienation between Sindhis and Pakistani establishment is so deep and severe that I now see very little hope of reconciliation. While the mothers, daughters, fathers and brothers of Sindh are crying for water, the Pakistani generals, politicians, bureaucrats are crying for F-16s.

Just look at this message board and its response to the pressing issue of Sindh. 3 total responses, while topics involving Iraq and America never seem to end.

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This news report likely did not even register on the radars of Pakistani establishment, but has given Sindhis new hope that we still have leaders who are honest and principled. NFC has always been a sham.

http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/08/top5.htm

Sindh NFC member Lodhi resigns: Centre’s attitude criticized

By Sabihuddin Ghausi

KARACHI, Dec 7: Abdul Karim Lodhi, who represented Sindh as a private and non-statutory member on the National Finance Commission (NFC) for about four years , announced his resignation from the commission on Tuesday after declaring that “the NFC has been unfortunately reduced to no more than a handmaiden of the central government”.

“It is not the independent entity that the Constitution decreed it to be,” Mr Lodhi said about the NFC at a press conference. He read out a five-page statement which was virtually a ‘charge-sheet’ against the centre’s attitude towards the provinces.

Mr Lodhi, a retired bureaucrat who also served as Sindh’s chief secretary, was unaware that Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz had held a dinner for the finance ministers of the four provinces on Monday evening for an informal discussion on NFC issues.

“The NFC meetings so far have been an assemblage of two sets of adversaries,” he said, recalling his four-year association with the commission. According to him, “one is the giver” - a reference to the federal finance minister who is the chairman of the NFC and the sole representative of the centre - “and though the other side is as weighty as eight (four finance ministers and four private members of the provinces), they are supplicant dwarfed, not so much by the weight of the finance minister, as his imposing large back-up force of at least 12 substantial stalwarts and the half-a-century-old culture of this being a beggar’s moot”.

Mr Lodih’s contention was that under Article 160 of the Constitution, the NFC had been asked to recommend distribution of proceeds of the divisible pool between the federation and the provinces, making of grants in aid by the federal government to the provincial governments and exercise by the federal and the provincial governments of the borrowing power conferred by the constitution.

In actual practice, he said, the NFC did not deliberate upon the distribution of taxes between the federation and the provinces. The finance ministry informs the NFC of a certain amount being the share of the provinces. “From thereon, the provinces commence their begging of the finance ministry to increase their shares,” he added.

“The constitutional duty to stipulate as to what shall be the share of the federal government and that of the provinces is completely denied to the commission,” he said.

“This mode of working, witnessed by me for last four years, and known to have existed over the past four decades at least, diminishes the NFC into no more than a tool in the hands of the finance ministry.”

Mr Lodhi was of the view that the issue of grants in aid by the federal government to the provinces was not a prerogative of the finance ministry, but something to be discussed and recommended by the NFC. Similarly, it is for the NFC to recommend the limits of borrowing of the federation and the provinces.

In another context, Mr Lodhi recalled the last meeting of the NFC in which the federal government pleaded to retain more taxes with itself because of a manifold increase in expenditure on the civil administration.

“For several years Sindh has been urging the centre to reduce and ultimately wind up those ministries whose subjects are outside the federal list,” he pointed out.

He also mentioned a few instances in which Sindh was denied the resource share after it had been pledged by Islamabad, and made it clear that in no country of the world was population the only criterion for the distribution of resources.

“The provinces do not find themselves to be members of a federal relationship. Even their petty chore is orchestrated by Islamabad,” he remarked, saying that he was resigning before any meeting of the NFC had been called to facilitate timely appointment of a member from Sindh in his place.

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Re: Re: Re: The Future of Sindh by Mumtaz Ali Bhutto

Thanks for the link. Still this institute is serving major urban areas of Pakistan.

We all need to demand from Mumtaz and Jatoi to give 1% of land for building schools, hospitals etc. in rural Sindh.

How? by raising commie leftie slogans?

60 years have gone by and Sindhi nationalists have not been able to find a solution. Anything less than anarchy will be highly welcome.

Sindh river is drying up because Bharat stopped water in three major tributaries: Satluj, Ravi, Bias. Half of Chenab is gone too. Now Jehlum is under threat as well.

Sindhi nationalist can’t live in vacuum by blaming water issue only on Islamabad.

Ignore them as they have ignored the real issues of Pakistan. They are simply Arrabob toap lickers pretending to be half a$$ Miskeens and Rafeeks.

The issues of Sindh have to be solved among Sindhi land owners (no derogatory term like Wadera) and the Sindhi educated elite. Unfortunately the educated are going left and land owners can’t follow them. They will lose everything by going left. So the solution has to be found which is more along the center.

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The Bhuttos, Jatois, Mahars and others of Sindh have already done a lot considering the constraints that have been placed on them by the ruling establishment. Their land allotments are nothing compared to the land that the army generals and officers hold, from golf courses, military farms, cantonments, housing schemes, and plots. If the trend continues, soon majority of Sindhis land will either be held by outsiders or those who answer to the outsiders. You need to direct your questions on land to Islamabad, not Jacobabad.

You are correct that the time for sloganeering is over. Now is the time for action and I hope the Sindhi masses have the courage to take decisive, non-violent action. And please don’t drag India into this, when Punjab is using our water to turn its deserts into fertile land while turning our fertile land into desert. Punjab’s quarrel with India is Punjab’s concern and I wish good luck to Punjab in dealing with the problem, but Sindh’s water problems is directly the result of Punjab’s actions. If Punjab considers us as fellow Pakistanis, fellow Muslims, fellow humans, then it has to honestly address the issue instead of using force, coercion, and dirty games to stop Sindh from raising its voice.

The report on the NFC debacle is just one example of the injustice to Sindh and the taking of our resources and getting nothing back. Sindhis are patient and docile people by nature, but even that has limits.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
The Bhuttos, Jatois, Mahars and others of Sindh have already done a lot considering the constraints ......
[/QUOTE]

Like what? As I said how many high schools, middle schools, and primary schools were established by these big name Sindhis.

What constraints do the Jatois have on establishing new schools? You think army generals will stop them from building a school on a land owned by Jatoi family?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
..... Punjab’s quarrel with India is Punjab’s concern and I wish good luck to Punjab in dealing with the problem, but Sindh’s water problems is directly the result of Punjab’s actions. .....
[/QUOTE]

Punjab's problem is the problem for Sindh. Why it is so difficult to understand. Nationalism is great but losing faith in simple logic is the worst form of nationalism. You think statements like this will help Sindhi cause or hurt them?

Sindhis lost Karachi and Hyderabad to the Urdu speaking for one reason only. Lack of education and lack of drive to get ahead. The world has changed drastically in the last sixty years. People who don't have access to education will slowly lose out to the other groups. Call it a cruel Darwinian rule, but unfortunately it is true.

Sindhis need teachers and schools. If you don't have them, then the best case scenario is for Sindh to become an oil rich gulf state utterly dependent on others for their daily life.

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Mr. antiobl, why are you dumping all the responsibility of providing education to Sindh on the shoulders of Sindhi political leaders whoa re already harassed and made scapegoats of all things wrong by the establishment? They have done whatever is in their power and it is not much these days. They go in and out of government at the behest of Islamabad and if they do not follow Islamabad’s wishes they can lose whatever power they have. It is no secret where Arbab gets his instructions from

A better question would to ask of the military that run Pakistan and how much money they have spent on education and health services. By last count, not much, since most of the money goes to debt repayment, defence budget and salaries of government employees. Majority of this revenue is collected from Sindh and spent on an obviously non Sindhi army. Pakistan army is not really a national army when to this day, not a single Sindhi has risen to the rank of general. How can one expect this army to uphold the interests of Sindh, when it does not even uphold the genuine interests of the Punjabi populace?

Sindh lost Karachi and half of Hyderabad because the Indian Muslim immigrants were told that "Pakistan agay hai" when they arrived in Punjab. And these immigrants never bothered to learn the culture and language of Sindh as is common in most situations where immigration occurs.

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Sadiqaan, I really appreciate your comments and your sentiments about Sindh and Pakistan. Here is my response.

1. Sindh Revenue vs. Pakistan revenue

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
.... since most of the money goes to debt repayment, defence budget and salaries of government employees. Majority of this revenue is collected from Sindh and spent on an obviously non Sindhi army. .....
[/QUOTE]

This is an oft repeated statement used by both MQM and anti-MQM groups. Pakistan's total revenues hover around $10 to $11 billion per year (check out the budgets from the last 5 years or so).

**Care to explain what percentage of $10 billion of Pakistani revenue comes from Sindh? Is it from Sales tax, or income tax, or excise tax etc.? **Sindh's population is around 30-40 million or so. Ever wonder what is the per capita revenue contribution from this population vs. 120 million from rest of the Pakistan?

2. Sindhi responsibility towards improving education in Sindh

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
Mr. antiobl, why are you dumping all the responsibility of providing education to Sindh on the shoulders of Sindhi political leaders .....
[/QUOTE]

Because they are the representatives of Sindh, who claim to have been voted to office by the Sindhis.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
.....They have done whatever is in their power and it is not much these days. ....
[/QUOTE]

Any published report that shows Mumtaz Bhutto has reduced the number of "Ghost schools" in Sindh?

Or how many educated Sindhi volunteers are spending a portion of their time in Sindhi schools that are short of teachers? How many college educated elite are willing to got to interior Sindh and teach English, Math, Science instead of thumping commie leftie slogans in the streets?

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My dear antiobl, I also appreciate your comments, since you are the only one talking about this topic.

I am not a technical minded person, so I will leave it to you to understand these graphs and tables, but I think they speak for themselves.

http://www.sindhlink.net/wsc/articles/wscsindh-summary.pdf

There is a lot more articles and opinions here that you may appreciate.

http://www.sindhlink.net/wsc/articles.htm

And on your last point of education, the funds and finances of Sindh are controlled by Islamabad. If it were up to Sindhis, we would dismantle unneeded nuclear weapons, make peace with India over Kashmir, downsize army and devote more resources to education and health, which is what is needed. As of now we cannot do this, since the power centers of Pakistan are controlled by hawkish elements of the Army. If more Sindhis were allowed in the army, we might have a chance to accomplish these things, since the power lies with the army.

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I have managed to upload this picture.

[thumb=H]sindh24146_7674683.JPG[/thumb]

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Salam a lakum,

Look all you Sindhi's, your problem is with Pakistan as it's dysfunctional and Pakistan, due to the population of Punjab, has not been treating Sindh fairly.

Fix Pakistan, otherwise the Sindhis will be worse off with India than they're with Pakistan, i.e. Gujarat. Even if Sindh was with India, Pakistan can still take away all that water.

You're welcome to contribute your grievences to www.imaginepakistan.com, keeping in mind that you're willing to work for a functional Pakistan, and none of this we're with India nonsense.

Wa salam

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EkSamosa, your offer is appreciated and I too hope we can fix Pakistan. But please tell me where have I ever said of working with India? If Sindh is treated fairly, there is no problem with Pakistan. I would go as far as to say that Sindh is the most pro Pakistan province. Remember that Shaheed Bhutto, a popular Sindhi and Pakistani leader was a staunch Pakistani patriot. This did not happen by accident.

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what *ing bull*.

jez.

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You're right, I apologize... I have a great amount of respect for the Sindhi people. There was some guy up there who kind of got me ticked off, again sorry.

wa salam

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
EkSamosa, your offer is appreciated and I too hope we can fix Pakistan. But please tell me where have I ever said of working with India? If Sindh is treated fairly, there is no problem with Pakistan. I would go as far as to say that Sindh is the most pro Pakistan province. Rememebr that Shaheed Bhutto, a popular Sindhi and Pakistani leader was a staunch Pakistani patriot. This did not happen by accident.
[/QUOTE]

This is a promising start. The NFC and water sharing issues are critical for Sindh, with good reason. I have long argued for a more equitable distribution of the NFC. The water issue is more complex, ideally water from the Indus should not be going into the Arabian sea, however it would require a significant commitment to undertake a series of projects to preserve the water supply.

I know there has been some discussion of Sindhis in the military. The representation is very low, however have you considered the sucess of the recruitment drives in the Sindhi speaking portions of the province? You cannot conscript Sindhis by force. The Urdu speaking areas of the province yield a greater amount of recruits.

Sindh has occupied the democratically elected (arguably) Prime Ministership for the most years. It's leaders have represented Pakistan all the way from the creation of Pakistan (Quaid) to the Dismemberment of it (ZAB) to the Return to Democracy (BB). If I believe your premise that the Sindhi leaders care for the province, then why haven't there been questions raised with the Bhutto family? The reality is that they played the eastern provinces for suckers. Sindhi nationalists in Sindh, staunch Pakistanis in Punjab.

Also, there is some undercurrent of hatred for Urdu speakers settled in Sindh. The idea that they were pushed out of Punjab is bogus, they simply went for the most developed urban area of Pakistan namely Karachi. Many like the President Musharraf's family did settle in areas outside of Sindh, while many others relocated to Karachi for economic, educational opportunities.

Furthermore, shall we examine the state of urban Sindh pre-partition? Karachi the Paris of South Asia was largely populated by Sindhi Hindus, Parsis, Guj. Memons, Anglos etc with very little Sindhi Muslim representation in the areas of power..After '47, we saw the unfortunate migration of Karachiites only to be replaced by the Urdu speakers. Sindhi Muslims weren't exactly clamoring to get into Karachi.

Btw, you know what some Indians say about your Sindhi Hindu Brothers? "If you see a snake and Sindhi on the road, kill the Sindhi first"

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
I have managed to upload this picture.

[thumb=H]sindh24146_7674683.JPG[/thumb]
[/QUOTE]

Dear Sadiqaan, The charts have serious issues as detailed below.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadiqaan: *
My dear antiobl, I also appreciate your comments, since you are the only one talking about this topic.
[/QUOTE]

You are very welcome. Just ignore this crap doled out by so-called Mullahtic idiotics on this board.

Now let's come back to your data and the links. I went through the report and I checked your plots. However there is a bit of problem. Please note that I have to convert Rs. to $$ (ratio 1:60) to help use relatively smaller numbers.

1. Problem with basis of Revenues As I said earlier, your figures do not give break down of revenues. Is it income tax, excise tax, export tax, or others? Karachi being the location of all the corporate head offices means the city will be get most of the tax receipts. However that doesn't give it the right to keep all the monies. Otherwise provinces will start levying inter-province tax that will be bad for the economy. Be careful to look at just numbers without looking at the basis. WSC will not propose NY city keeping all the tax money just for being a port city and place for corporate HQs.

MQM can use WSC logic and keep all the taxes collected from Karachi thus denying Sindh the money. So please keep in mind these numbers are from inter-province trade and not inter-country trade. Had Punjab and other provinces levied taxes for things going to Sindh, total revenues will be different. This is for comparison sake. I am in no way advocating inter-province taxation in the days of WTO and free market economy.

2. Problem with total Revenues Revenues listed are but a smaller portion of the overall budget. Average total revenues per year for WSC charts is $5 billion. However Pakistan's national budget is $14 billion with revenues around $9 to $12 billion. Thus the WSC analysis is based less than half of the revenues and even smaller portion of the national budget. Why?

3. Problem with Pie chart for Punjab Revenues Over 5 years Punjab contributed $6.0918 billion while it received $5.77 billion. So it didn't steal from Sindh as suggested by the pie chart.

Over the same 5 years Sindh contributed $16.55 billion and received $2.32 billion. Apart from Sindh every province got less or equal to their contribution. So the 14 billion from Sindh to be roughly 3 billion per year simply went to state bank instead of going to other big bad provinces. The report also fails to normalize these numbers over population of provinces. This lack of normalization further skews WSC analysis.

3. Problem with WSC rhetoric While WSC wants to present the numbers in an intellectual way, it loses its cool while blaming military. Pakistani military is nowhere spending 70% of Pak budget as suggested by the report (page-2). I wish you could help them correct the numbers. The actual numbers are at the most %25 ($3 billion for army in $14.1 billion Fed budget)

Bottom line is that WSC report will not even pass the challenge of a PhD dissertation committee. So my friend, you must become technical minded before people give you incorrect analysis.

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Here is the same WSC numbers for provinces' award chart normalized for the population.

[thumb=H]Sindh-budget%20analysis24276_3179234.JPG[/thumb]