Dear Enterprise2,
Thankyou for your concise analysis and opinioin. I wish to share you with you my complete disillusionment with all political agendas that exist in the subcontinent. I do not endorse the ideas or philosophies of the Mohajir Quami Movement. I find my self in complete agreement with you regarding the the people of Sind. A joint effort is the only viable option.
Mr Farid,
The urdu speaking people are a complex mixture of ego and traditions. I find your views fair and factual. The information you have provided speaks for itself.
I do not endorse further disection, simply due to the possibility of violence.
Mr Enterprise and Mr Farid kindly allow me to read and consider carefully what you have written. A full reply should follow shortly.
Thankyou .
Sincerely,
Resistance
Dang... I scrolled down all the way and no one is talking about "The Empire Strikes Back" guess it is not a discussion about how complex the plot of the movie may have been had the storyline in the book followed in a better way.
What’s so funny about fraudia's message, I do not understand a bit what he is talking about. At least there is one Enterprise (perhaps U.S.S) which can understand such meaningless messages. It reminds me "Lekhay Moosa, Parhey Easa".
Please do not be serious just joking--long before Empire Strikes Back was Fantomus Strikes Back (A popular movie series 'Fantomus' starring a bald actor Jean Marrios of mid 60's.
Farid Bhaeeeee,
Salams to you. I get this this wiered feeling that that you've not been paying attention to Fraudiaes other posts. I was referring to all of them and thanking him by siezing this opportunity where no reply was already posted.
Take care Farid JI
One of the main reasons for this confusion that exists on the subcontinent is the idea that Pakistan is Islamic. For Pakistan to be Islamic it would need to follow Shariah Law not Pakistani Law. Pakistan would need to be an Islamic state. Pakistan is a country which has a mixture of secular and non-secular ideas or laws. The secular ideas come from a source which says that there is no God and we as Humans are free to do whatever we want without fear of any sort of a supernatural existence which demands that we submit our will to it. Non-secular ideas come from Islam which tells us to submit our will to Allah (S.W.T.). You can't pick and choose between these two types of ideas. You have to follow one or the other. Also Pakistan needs to adopt an ideology and the perfect ideology for it is Islam not Capitalism or Communism. If pakistan adopted Communism it would need to get rid of all traces of religion and so this seems unlikely. If it adopted Capitalism then it would need to get rid of all traces of Islam from its Law etc, this is because if Pakistan became Capitalist then it would treat Islam as just a spiritual religion, which it isn't, and not an ideology which it is. It would be just like the way the west treat Christianity i.e. it has no place in politics.
Pakistan must'nt be a confused nation following a mixture of ideologies. It needs to adopt one ideology - Islam.
Mr Mudassar,
I apreciate your informative input. I do wonder though if it is possible to create a theocratic state with in a modern industrial society. If some of us hold Iran to be an example, I would urge them to raise their standards.
Political analysts have strong reservations about theocracies. They believe that in such a state the Goverment starts to play the role of a designated God.
Why wouldn't it be possible to create an industrialised theocratic state?
Concerning political analysts, did they study the Islamic state? or did they just use Christianity as an example. If they used Christianity as an example then they would be correct since the Church did abuse its authority. In an Islamic state there is a way of taking the authority away from the Khaleef and putting someone else in his place. Also it depends on what they class a successful country. All Secular states say that success has a lot to do with economics and this is what makes a country with a high level of education a second or third world country. In England there are many examples of children who have been through the 11 years of education yet they are unable to read or write but England or the U.K. is classed a first world, modern country.
To be an Arab you must be able to speak Quraa'nic Arabic. It has nothing to do with nationality. There are many people now who think they are Arabs just because they were born somewhere in the Middle East but in reality they are not. The Turks, who actually helped disassemble the Islamic state, on purpose or innocently, couldn't speak Arabic and even now there are some turks who want to translate the namaaz into Turkish but they have realised that the Arabic language is very important to Islam.
Can you also elaborate further how this form of government will come in to existence. Is there any party who has guts to implement what you are suggesting.
A couple of times opportunity was given to Jamat-e-Islami to work in that direction. Unfortunately each time the party was a total failure even implanting simple Islamic Laws. The party is now divided in to factions. The popularity of Islamic parties are at lowest ebb.
When you say Islam is the only answer, than which Islam are you talking about. Islam is now solidly divided in to at least two big factions, Sunni and Shia sects. You know that in Pakistan, people are killing each other just because they belong to different sects and moulvis of each sect have declared Kafirs to one another. Before doing any thing else, how will you resolve this conflict which is spreading day by day?
I don't think Pakistan is Islamic since it does not implement Islamic law. Also Jamat-e-Islami don't treat Islam as an Ideology, they treat Islam as just a spiritual religion. At this moment most groups want to compromise Islamic and secular laws. Some of them wouldn't know how to set up an Islamic state and they wouldn't know how an Islamic state would affect their lives. To live in an Islamic state you have to be in an Islamic state of mind. When you see people committing crime or Haraam acts it is your job as a Muslim to condemn it even though the act is allowed by the state that you live in, e.g.,usury, alcohol, fornication. As Muslims we do not belong to any state other than the Islamic state and since there is no Islamic state it is our job to set one up. To be patriotic is considered foolishness since the state that you might feel so in love with and which doesn't implement Islamic law will not give you ilm, it will not make Jannah easier for you and it will not help you as vicegerent of Allah to spread Islam.
We have all been told all our lives that Islam is correct, which is true, but we haven't been taught Islam.
Maulvis wil be maulvis, hehe. In an Islamic state the maulvi's status is the same as any other citizen of the state and a typical citizen of the state will be able to teach you more than what a maulvi can teach you because that citizen sees living Islam the maulvi has only a vague idea of it. If you say that a maulvi's job is to lead the prayer then that is false because any male Muslim can do it. If you say that they teach us Islam and teach us Arabic then that is also false since most of them only know and only teach us the sounds that you are some supposed to make when reading a particular Arabic letter and they get that wrong as well. I don't know Pakistanis are complaining about Maulvis because they made them. Maulvis come from poor or problem backgrounds or are handicapped or unintelligent and these are the same people that are supposed to teach us Islam. Since these people can't become doctors or have a profession they become maulvis. People have this image that to be a good Muslim you must stay in the Mosque 24/7 yet the great scholars of the past had jobs because every man has a duty to work to earn money for his family. Imam Abu Hanifah was a trader. In Islam since you are performing an action with the intention of performing that action because Allah (S.W.T.) has allowed it i.e. Halaal, then it is considered worship.
People have stood up against secularism except that they get slandered by so called 'Modernist Muslims' and except for the ones that got away, the rest are rotting away in prisons where they are tortured. Some of them are in Saudi prisons. In Saudi they have Imam Huthayfee, Imam of Masjid-e-Nabi locked up because he read a jumma khutba which was not written up by the state and in that khutbah he condemmed the capitalist nations.
I know of a group called Hizb-ut-Tahrir who know what they are talking about and have described the Islamic state in detail.
Hizb Ut Tahirir has only been talking about it, for decades now.. the group has failed to realize that even today as of this minute if the whole Muslim world united in a khilafa, there are many issues we are facng that we would have to deal with..corruption, failing infrastructures, bad health and educational systems, ineffective governments only supported by weak pillars of corruption, unawareness and apathy, enforced by force..
groups like these fail to cooperate with other groups to achieve a common goal, and then they expect to have all muslims cooperate and get rid of their national boundaries and governments and form one government. There are so many areas that need attention now. Sitting in halqaas and caliming we will do this and we will do that.,.. or down with the west, down with world bank, down with UN is easy enough.
These guys can sure talk the talk,.. when will they walk the walk. been decades that they have been claiming.. brothers InshaAllah you will see soon. :)
Only thing I see is same thing I saw yesterday, and last year, and the eyar before that..
we are quick to label everyone else as non muslim..we are going to unite as a khilafah now? really? Is teh khilafah going to be divided in provinces of shia, sunni, deobandi, wahabi, etc etc
In the UK hizb-ut-tahrir split into two groups, we now have an offshoot called Al-Muhajiroon. They also have a site, try www.muhajiroon.org.uk. They're on the Ummah net server.
Their membership consists of mainly angry young men who are frustrated with the state of the Ummah. They draw the bulk of their membership from the University campuses in the UK. Their approach on the whole is hostile and I've found them to be deliberately provocative.
On the way to work I drive past a sign on the motorway covered with their posters. They have a tendancy to fly post over traffic lights (yes over the lights themselves) and traffic signs in the UK.
I don't know a lot about Hizb-ut-Tahrir but I do know that there are more than one groups that have split up from H.T. who have taken some ideas from H.T. and some of their own ideas and made a group out of it. The guy who started Al-Muhajiroun is a Shia and he couldn't let go of some of his ideas. All groups in no way work against each other and they all have the same cause its just that they use different techniques.
The idea that all that the groups do is talk is actually quite funny since that is all that they are allowed to do:
Al-Qur'aan, TMQ by Yusuf Ali
3:104 Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong. They are the ones to attain felicity.
From this verse you can clearly see that inviting to the good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong are all verbal actions.
Some members of H.T. went to Libya to talk to Gaddaffi to prove to him the importance of the Sunnah because Gaddaffi tells his people to follow the Qur'aan and reject the Sunnah. Gaddaffi got them executed and according to a certain Hadith, which I will produce later, the best of martyrs is Hamza and the best of martyrs in the sight of Allah are those who approach a leader and tell him to reject what he has been following and adopt Islam and get killed for doing this.