Re: The difference between India and China
Do you read news? or just attend party meetings? Dude, wake up and smell the coffee, Modi has been accused by people (esp Muslims) all around not just some nick on an internet forum. Now whether he is being/will be taken to court and can it be proved in court is a different story altogether.
Re: The difference between India and China
One thing I will tell you... Indians like to boast alot. Every other news article says something like: "Shining India" or "The Next Super-power". In reality, the only time India will be able to shine is when those 250+ million people are brought out of poverty.
Anyone here a member of SkyScraperCity.com forums... you will see Indians there comparing Bombay to Hong Kong. Yes Yes.. the same Bombay which sunk under water during the monsoon season.
Re: The difference between India and China
India and China: a comparison
January 18, 2005
** The gap between the performance of the world's two largest nations, China and India, keeps growing. Two instances from entirely different fields should give us an idea. **
The world's first commercial maglev (magnetic levitation) train is operating between the Pudong International Airport and downtown Shanghai.
It takes just seven minutes to cross the 30-kilometre distance -- which is about the same distance between Mumbai's international airport and Nariman Point, which takes anywhere from 75 minutes to a couple of hours, to cover.
In a different field, China won 63 medals in the last Olympics; India just one. The growing gap in economic performance, too, evidences few signs of narrowing.
Historically, there are a number of similarities between the two: ancient civilisations, the world's leading and richest at one time; going down the league table in the second-half of the second millennium; and starting their progress to modernity in the middle of the last century.
In the 1950s and 1960s there was considerable media debate on which system, authoritarian communism in China or parliamentary democracy in India, will deliver better.
There was not much difference in the economic performance roughly until 1980, when the per capita incomes were also similar. Over the last quarter century, both instituted economic reforms and growth accelerated.
China embraced globalisation and trade enthusiastically, welcoming foreign direct investment with no inhibitions, and gradually gaining control of world markets for low-tech labour-intensive manufactures.
While reforms in India are supposed to have been initiated in 1991, the doctrinaire socialist policy had begun to be diluted in the second innings of Indira Gandhi.
The process of liberalisation continued under her son Rajiv Gandhi, and more dramatically after 1991. The growth rate doubled from the previous Hindu rate, but still lagged that of China.
The result has been that starting with more or less the same per capita incomes 25 years back, Chinese incomes today are double that of India's -- a result not only of faster GDP growth, but also of a lower population increase, thanks to the one-child policy.
Both face growing economic inequality.
Today, apart from higher incomes and lower poverty, the areas in which China is far ahead of us are literacy, FDI, labour rationalisation in the public sector and infrastructure investments.
Many international observers are astounded at the sheer speed with which infrastructure projects get implemented. As the Financial Times commented (January 21, 2004) "if thousands of villagers have to be moved to make way for roads or power stations, so be it: investment in infrastructure underpins China's success."
While the Deng revolution completely discarded Mao's economic model, the Chinese haven't forgotten one of the Great Helmsman's thoughts: respect your enemy (that is, any problem) strategically, and despise him tactically.
The blitzkrieg-like implementation of projects is an illustration of the latter tenet.
Contrast the way the giant Three Gorges Dam has come up in China, with the fate of the Sardar Sarovar Project in Gujarat.
Agitation, endless court cases, environmentalists, and other manifestations of a democratic, rule-of-law society have not only delayed implementation perhaps by a decade, but also added enormously to the costs.
And the direct cost escalation is perhaps only a small part of the total cost to the economy.
One can only imagine the output lost because of the delays in the starting of the project.
Take another instance where China is ahead of us, namely, labour-intensive manufacture.
Our labour laws, which protect existing employment, but at the cost of creating new jobs, have created a bias in favour of capital-intensive investments.
An Ambani prefers a refinery, in which the only comparative advantage comes out of the duty structure, to manufacturing, say, toys in billions and exporting them to the world.
China does not seem to be treating PSUs as holy cows either -- millions of jobs in state-owned enterprises have been lost in preparation for world competition.
But new ones keep getting created in larger numbers. In contrast, we not only condone over-manning, but also keep thousands employed in factories that haven't produced anything for decades.
No wonder resources are short for the much-needed investments. Organised private industry, afraid of labour laws, has produced few new ones in recent years.
There is a positive side to our system as well: we avoided the millions of starvation deaths that were a corollary to Mao's "Great Leap Forward" in augmenting steel output, and the social chaos of his Cultural Revolution.
Only an authoritarian system would permit such excesses. But the fact remains that fast growth in Asia has invariably come under authoritarian governments.
The correlation is strong, but as political correctness will argue, correlation is not necessarily cause and effect. Again, is quarter of a century too short a period to compare the efficacy of enlightened, reformist, authoritarian regimes and political democracies?
** To be sure, there is one field where we have a good, if frightening, chance of beating China -- population. In most other areas, it is more comfortable to stop making comparisons. **
Re: The difference between India and China
Anyone here a member of SkyScraperCity.com forums... you will see Indians there comparing Bombay to Hong Kong. Yes Yes.. the same Bombay which sunk under water during the monsoon season.
LOL. Ya Bombay did sink under water.
comparing bombay to hong kong, i suppose then they would want to compare bollywood to hollywood:D
Re: The difference between India and China
wow!! you guys are amazing....yeah yeah India is far far behind China...but that doesnt mean India will not pay PR agencies or on its own not get articles in media about whatever little good that happens...thats the way you create some positive buzz to attract investment (all mktg works that way, riht..you may not have the best of product - it may even be faulty but you sell it like it works perfectly).
I mean what are you guys telling Indians about the reality in India..they face it and and suffer coz of it everyday...but it still is a vibrant democarcy and at least one can be optimistic that Modi could one day be found guilty unlike China where there is just no scope of anything of the sorts...
Comparing Mumbai to HK is certainly silly...but not coz it "sunk" in those monsoons...those were the worst of monsoons and HK wold not have done much better...but its a silly comparison on lots of other counts.
And if you did read that article posted by Abdali, what you may realise is that you will love the China model as long as YOU do not suffer coz of any of the excesses that the state commits for the sake of all the progress...if YOU personally were being forced out of a place unfairly without adequate compensation etc...you may prefer that you at least have a say in the matters like the Narmada dam issue in India...But of course, if YOU are sitting outside your country living a cozy life or even the rich ones in your own country, that YOU would only be concerned about all the infrastructure projects and evey other development indicators zooming like they have been doing in China's case...YOU in that case will of course only regret all the slow progress
Guess India will have to live the slow life, face all the protests, the left and labour unions, swadeshi movements etc and see what best can be done to move ahead (China is a role model indeed but not a comprehensive one...Pakistan of course is a role model as well albeit in a different sense...)
Re: The difference between India and China
what about the Reinhard Heydrich(the German Nazi who proposed the idea of final solution towards the Jews in Wannase, Germany in January 1942) of India, Mr. Modi, why is that guy still the chief minister of Gujrat?
He is the man who orchastrated, organized, gave support to the murder of thousands of muslims in gujrat and yet no prosecution has been placed towards him.
Its irrelevant that he had been re-elected. He is responsible for the deaths of thousands.
What a glowing sign of indian democracy. Sounds more like an Apartheid Democracy only for Hindus.
Hmm from "The difference between India and China" to "Apartheid Democracy only for Hindus". One understands the feeble position the land of the pure is in. Afterall, why would a "most surprising country" need to compare it's rival with another country instead of itself. Dismal performance and hand out growth aside, there is little to cheer in Islamabad.
As the Shireen Mazari, the op/ed mouth piece for the Musharaff regeim, once said, anything Pakistanis say about Indian growth or India's role in the world is nothing more than sour grapes.
Re: The difference between India and China
Yes Modi has been accused, and I also think he might be guilty of inaction, but you cannot punish anyone on the basis of accusation. There are millions who accuse Bush for killing muslims all over the world, do you think he will be sent to jail for that. I accuse Musharraf for the Pakistans Kargil misadventure, so are you going to hang him.
Re: The difference between India and China
Agreed.....And thats true for any country (Although the 250+ million might change to say 80 mil)
Re: The difference between India and China
comparing bombay to hong kong, i suppose then they would want to compare bollywood to hollywood:D
So did New Orleans :( . But the matter of fact is that Bombay was on its feet much quicker than New Orleans and there were much less inhuman incidents.
Re: The difference between India and China
:)
Welcome to GS..
You are new here, everything said by any of the 1 billion+ Indians is worth generalizing and redicule on this forum... So brace your self up for rollercoaster ride....... :D
You should stay here since mods are more or less impartial within given framework that its a Pakistani site. Its one of the best organized site for discussions.
Coming back to thread... say something about China and India and how China is benchmarks for Indians. I was just out for dinner with a Brit friend and he agreed with fundamental economic gaps in chiense growth. Though one point he made was pertinent... at this moment its good to invest in and kicking everybody's a$$.......
Re: The difference between India and China
What does New Orleans have to do with Hong Kong? Don't bring non-relevant issues into the equation.
Re: The difference between India and China
Perhaps you have forogtten that New Orleans is below Sea-level...
So once the levees were breached, there was no where for the water to go...
So that is a flawed comparison...
But as for Bombay...
A city known for its massive and powerful rain storms...
How could the authorities be so inept as not to prepare for killer thunderstorms and torrential downpour...
Bombay was drowned by Rain...
That says a lot of Indian Planning doesn't it... :)
Re: The difference between India and China
I have been to China and once one drives past the glitter of Shanghai,one comes upon slums as ugly as any.And, a vast majority of chinese pedal to work, even more so than in India.Everything has to be taken in perspective.If one takes a drive on 'Marine Drive' in Mumbai one would think it to be New York.Gleaming skyscrapers glistening in the night.Yet in the same town are also present vast slums.Same in China too.There is very little exposure to the real China.But , i wish all the chinese people well as they strive to become a superpower.Why not?.
Re: The difference between India and China
Indian's should stop obsessing about China, who is way ahead of it. India has so much to learn from the China.
Re: The difference between India and China
Definitely...india has lot to learn from china and we are learning from them eg-Special economic zones. Since we are learning from them, it simply cannot mean that we are obsessed about china.
Re: The difference between India and China
Yes, and our trade is growing also big time........
Hopefully we will get entangled so strongly in trade that we will be forced to be friends......... and learn from each other...
Chinese premimu visited Bangalore 2 years back to understand Indian S/W Industry model. Similiarly Indian leaders visit to China to understand its model of growth... ..
Re: The difference between India and China
India is not in the same league as China.
Re: The difference between India and China
Yes, agreed… kab tak chillata rahega… jab sab maan gaye .. to ab kisko manva raha hai… SILLY