well that just wouldn’t create any newsworthy headlines though would it? 
You know what creates news worthy headlines....terrorists bombing discos and killing vacationers. It's all their fault.
How many organisations in USA purport to speak on behalf of muslims in USA? CAIR is one of them. Here is there web site: http://www.cair-net.org/
I can list atleast 4 others. I have gone to all of their sites. It is not what you or I say as private citizens that makes the news, but it would be nice to see some leading Muslims getting in front of TV and condemning this type of violence unequivocally. The leading guy in Indonesia said that it was USA consipiracy!! See how many people have condemned Falwell on Camera and without equivocation!! If we cannot see the difference then there is very little that can be said.
We need to think carefully as a community what is that we want?
The Al-Qaida fanatics are the creation of the Western fanatics. They both will eventually kill each other, leaving normal people to live in peace.
SALAM. MY FIRST POST ON GUPSHUP
ALL I CAN SAY ABOUT THIS BALI, INCIDENT IS THAT, IT IS FROM ALLAH A WARNNING TO THESE STUPID A AMERICANS CANADIAN BRITS AUSES KIWIS AND OTHER STUPID A GORAS...TO NOT TO F AROUND WITH MUSLIM COUNTRIES,,, YOU PEOPLE ARE SO DISCUSTING,,AND SO UNNDER KNOWLEDGED THAT I CANT BELIEVE,,, AHHHH DOES ANY WON REMMEBRR THE CREATION OF THE NEW COUNTRY CALLED EAST TIMOR????? AUSES CAME WITH THEIR F16,S N NAVY SHIPS N COBRA HELICOPS....TO HELP THE CHRISTANS TO SLAUGTER MORE THAN 50000 MUSLIMS AND BURN DOWN 1000 MOSQUES.... HISTORY REPETS ITS SELF...HUH WHAT AN IRONY...THIS IS A WAKE UP CALL FOR ALL THERE GORAS AND US MUMSLIMS ASWELL...!!
MOAZ: 2 points
1) When you type in caps it is as if you are shouting.
2) YOU ARE AN IDIOT
From washington post: the site was carefully selected so if locals were going to get killed it would be hindus and not muslims!!! What a reputation we have. Moaz beleive me the Goras are getting your message loud and clear. The question is whether we have thought through whether we want them to get this message loud and clear. 1000 mosques? 50000 muslims? Where do you get all these numbers?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22839-2002Oct14.html
**Whoever did it was targeting westerners, he said. The vast majority of those killed and injured were from countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Germany, Britain, France and Belgium. Moreover, Bali is a Hindu enclave in a Muslim country.
“If the bomb went off in Jakarta, you’d take out a lot of Muslims,” he said. “But if you do it in Bali, you only take out Hindus, to the extent that you take out locals. It is distant and remote from the heartland of Indonesia, Java.”**
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
MOAZ: 2 points
1) When you type in caps it is as if you are shouting.
2) YOU ARE AN IDIOT
[/QUOTE]
YES I WAS UR A DUMB ASS NOW WHAT???
CAIR = Council of american Islamic Relations. I dont see Indonesia anywhere in the name.
The second question is, did the media go and ask some community leaders, or do they expect them to come to the media all the time?
It would be very nice to see some leaders in front of the camera denouncing these remarks, just like it would have been nice to have the pope on camera denouncing falwell, or members of the Hindu assocs in USA on Tv denouncing gujrat violence and the smoking guns that emerged in Modi and co’s hands after that.
Where is media responsibility here. lets get a blanced view, lets go talk to some people..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
You know what creates news worthy headlines....terrorists bombing discos and killing vacationers. It's all their fault.
[/QUOTE]
burning and killing thousands in gujrat makes news too. I have not seen any US based Hindu group on TV strongly denouncing the violence as well as remarks by Modi or the agenda of groups like VHP.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
burning and killing thousands in gujrat makes news too. I have not seen any US based Hindu group on TV strongly denouncing the violence as well as remarks by Modi or the agenda of groups like VHP.
[/QUOTE]
TRUE THAT... i just forgot it for a sec..thanks for backing me up!
US based hindu groups don't have to. Indian based hindu groups, media and civic leaders have decried the senseless deaths. And you know what as an Indian I am ashamed. If there was an issue with US or India based hindu groups fomenting violence they would be on the gov't watch list. But all we have is Lakshar e' Toibas and JUM's of the world. That is the reality. If there were hindu terrorists I would hope India and US go and take them out.
Burying heads and hope the problem go away is not the answer. There might be a small fundamentalist minority that is behind such violence. From Philipines to India to China to Russia to US and now Indonesia innocents have died. And when the only country that has the scale and the might to take care of this scourge, the moderates make excuses and draw parallels with things where there ae no parallels to be drawn. ANd worse prohibit it from doing the only thing that they should be doing themsleves.
All I have seen from day one is the blame game and NIMBY.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
US based hindu groups don't have to.
[/QUOTE]
Why not?
Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
US based hindu groups don't have to. Indian based hindu groups, media and civic leaders have decried the senseless deaths. *
so why does CAIR which is a US based group need to get involved in australian or indonesian issues? Indonesian and aussie groups can. That is what i meant that i dont feel any obligation to denounce every run of the mill idiot who opens his mouth from bangkok to burundi.
*Burying heads and hope the problem go away is not the answer. There might be a small fundamentalist minority that is behind such violence. From Philipines to India to China to Russia to US and now Indonesia innocents have died. *
Burrying heads is not the answer, but looking at muslims the world over and saying oooh oohh so and so said something on such and such station, why dont you denounce it. I mean its like going to some guy in hong kong and asking him to denounce the latest crap that came out of Pat Robertson's mouth. Woulld one even know that some jackass said something on some lame Radio Station 3 continents away?
*And when the only country that has the scale and the might to take care of this scourge, the moderates make excuses and draw parallels with things where there ae no parallels to be drawn. ANd worse prohibit it from doing the only thing that they should be doing themsleves. *
Thereare no excuses, there are correct ways of handling things. I had family and freinds serving at desert storm. Its not "ALL" muslims who are opposed to an action, but there are real concerns if an action is taken, what is the impact on the region itself. I dunno but I suppose overnight the leadership in Russia, France, Canada etc has become "moderate" muslim because they dont seem to be completely onboard either.
**
All I have seen from day one is the blame game and NIMBY. **
from all sides involved.
Wow how ironic is that when the OPRESSOR'S are on the recieving end. The Western colonists nations have opressed,tortured,killed,raped resources of the 3rd world for over 200 yrs and contine to do so, YET when their own people are killed they start jumping up and down as if it's the end of the world. If they had an foriegn policy based on ethics rather than SELF INTREST AND BENEFIT AND GREED , then more than half thE world would'nt hate these nations who implement Capitalism to steal from the masses to feed a few.
Pir Sahib, what you are saying is correct. I don't dispute any of it.
The original point was that the extremists make a statement by bombing and killing and then saying that they represent Islam. Your denouncing it or my denouncing it as individuals doesn't count diddly squat. The question that I asked you was where is the organisation that should stand up that represents the moderate view of Islam? If you think CAIR is not the right one, is there a right one? Should there be one? Or, we should argue that everyone should know automatically that these bombers do not represent Islam.
How many xstians do you hear apologising each time you hear these evanagelists calling our beloved prophet(pbuh) a paedophile and a terrorist!
why you so keen to appease these oppressors they will never be happy with you anyway whatever you do.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
How many xstians do you hear apologising each time you hear these evanagelists calling our beloved prophet(pbuh) a paedophile and a terrorist!
why you so keen to appease these oppressors they will never be happy with you anyway whatever you do.
[/QUOTE]
ak: I am an American. I feel that I have to make my country a good place to live. As far as christians and Falwell, as I pointed out notice how pressure was put upon Falwell to apologise. I disagree with you and your dividing the world into this stark black and white camps that hate each other. The issue is that the people you support do not speak for all muslims. I think that killing like this is against Islam and is harming muslims the world over. I want the world to know that the suicide bombers, the killers, the hate spreaders do not represent Islam.
OldLahori
Should muslims denounce such barbaric acts by idiots who belong to our faith and thats about all that we have in common, and even then our beliefs may be vastly different. Sure lets condemn them.
But looking at people three continents away may not be the answer. There have to be local groups who should say something. But at the same time media should go to them and ask for their perspectives as well. It has to be a 2 way street.
The masjid I go for prayers had visitors after 9/11 who talked to the people and the Imam, they even reported what they saw and felt. The reporter talked to me and I gave him my perspective. The newspaper folks tried to find a common person's perspective, as well as listen to the sermon and see what was being said at mosques. All civilized, all about being a good human etc.
Now, in this case, as in several other cases. I see a lack of responsible behaviour on the part of the media. Why have they not approached an organization which can put things into perspective?
the responsibility is on both sides, the people who have created these islamic associations and all need to do more and not just have conventions every so often and ask for donations for this or that program. However, there are groups that are social service minded and do nto meddle in politics, expecting them to come out full force may not be the right thing. However groups that have made political statements in the past whether it is against a policy or events or whatever, need to step up to the plate and speak their minds here as well.
But short of standing at a street corner with a banner, writing letters to editor or calling in talk shows, they cant do much unless they buy a whole page of newspaper ad and state their position, which actually may be the best way to go. Money talks. Otherwise youa re at th emercy of media to figure out whether or not your statements are newsworthy.
Old lahori u are an american you tell me that in every post its ok i told you many times i am not associated with immigration so you have nothing to fear.
I disagree with you on every point because you do not represent the muslim view that is why you always quote the blurry phrase of moderate muslim what is that similar to "diet coke" islam light or something.
Killing is part of jihad for your information and people die in a war. Islam is peace yes thats right but if people like the united states your brothers i take it bomb the crap out of you its every oppressed individuals right to defend themself.
And finanlly nobody has been brought to justice for this bombing so why you so keen for muslims to take the blame. Enough of this apologetic attitude we have done nothing wrong we are the victims of americas terrorism!