So, we all know the popular debate that has engulfed us all recently, about whether Quaid-e-Azam envisaged pakistan to be a secular state or not. There are a thousand arguments on both side.
But i never heard anyone say anything about what were Dr. Iqbal’s views on this. Does anyone know of what he had to say on this?
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
Does his poetry 'Saare Jahan se acha Hindustan hamara' say something?
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
^ wasn't that before he coined the idea of a separate nation state??
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
^ wasn't that before he coined the idea of a separate nation state??
Exactly. Thats what I have read from the critics of Allama. They say that Allama, being a local, didn't cover much about the land and his poetry mainly cover the concepts of Umma. But again he wrote 'Utho meri duniya ke ghareebo ko jaga do' its 'meri duniya ke Musalmano'.
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
^ my question is related to his polictical views. He was, afterall, leader of muslim league, and instrumental in convincing quade azam to come back and fight for the cause. He must have made statements, besides the poetry in his capacity as a politician, that would reflect on what he envisaged pakistan to be in terms of system of govt; separation of church and state.
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
^ my question is related to his polictical views. He was, afterall, leader of muslim league, and instrumental in convincing quade azam to come back and fight for the cause. He must have made statements, besides the poetry in his capacity as a politician, that would reflect on what he envisaged pakistan to be in terms of system of govt; separation of church and state.
PM his views are mostly come through poetry and letters. His poetic concepts say that he was not in favour of separation of church and state
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
^Interesting, so he didn't make many statements as a politician? in Mulsim league conventions or anything? or his are not that well documented?
so, in short, he did not want a 'secular' country?
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
i blieve iqbal was looking for a muslim state but many people say creating a new country was not so popular until early 40's sooo
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
Allama wanted a muslim nation, the line like, Hindi hain hum watan hai hindustan hamara changed to muslim hain hum watan hain saara jahan hamara:)
I doubt if Allama was secular in last part of his active political life.
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
^Interesting, so he didn't make many statements as a politician? in Mulsim league conventions or anything? or his are not that well documented?
so, in short, he did not want a 'secular' country?
A little search revealed this statement by Iqbal:
“The republican form of government is not only thoroughly consistent with the spirit of Islam, but has also become a necessity in view of the new forces that were set free in the world of Islam.”
One aspect that should be discussed here before going into further details is 'What is the concept of Muslim State' and 'How it is different from a secular state'?
I think there is a misconception that in a Muslim state, non-Muslims can't exercise their religion freely. History tells us that all major Muslim states accommodated their Non-Muslim subjects be it Spain or India (leaving some rulers, whose mistakes created misconceptions in general masses).
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
Allama wanted a muslim nation, the line like, Hindi hain hum watan hai hindustan hamara changed to muslim hain hum watan hain saara jahan hamara:)
I doubt if Allama was secular in last part of his active political life.
The demand of separate state by Muslims was lately introduced and popularised on the basis of religion, but in essence it was due to economic fears of Muslims.
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
i blieve iqbal was looking for a muslim state but many people say creating a new country was not so popular until early 40's sooo
Exactly. It was first concept of loose Federation and there was no concept of migration at all.
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
A little search revealed this statement by Iqbal:
“The republican form of government is not only thoroughly consistent with the spirit of Islam, but has also become a necessity in view of the new forces that were set free in the world of Islam.”
One aspect that should be discussed here before going into further details is 'What is the concept of Muslim State' and 'How it is different from a secular state'?
I think there is a misconception that in a Muslim state, non-Muslims can't exercise their religion freely. History tells us that all major Muslim states accommodated their Non-Muslim subjects be it Spain or India (leaving some rulers, whose mistakes created misconceptions in general masses).
I don't intend the discussion to digress towards what actually is a secular vs muslim/islamic state. That opens up a whole new can of worms. Lets just say, what i mean by secular here is what the contemporary understanding of the term is , in other words, what the neo-liberals of pakistan mean it to be.
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
Allama wanted a muslim nation, the line like, Hindi hain hum watan hai hindustan hamara changed to muslim hain hum watan hain saara jahan hamara:)
I doubt if Allama was secular in last part of his active political life.
What about the separation of Indian Punjab to safeguard the interests of Sikhs? The same fear led to the separation of East and West Pakistan, the fear of economic subjugation within muslims (like other religion followers) was quite strong.
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
I don't intend the discussion to digress towards what actually is a secular vs muslim/islamic state. That opens up a whole new can of worms. Lets just say, what i mean by secular here is what the contemporary understanding of the term is , in other words, what the neo-liberals of pakistan mean it to be.
I do not think that he wanted a secular nation, he seems more of a pan Islamist in his views (but not of extremist views). I think he wanted a progressive Islamic country where the minorities should also be able to lead their lives with freedom.
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
The demand of separate state by Muslims was lately introduced and popularised on the basis of religion, but in essence it was due to economic fears of Muslims.
I doubt if muslims were econimically better ever leaving the elite, the trader class of Baniya was always richer than average muslim, it is simple to understand, the class which ruled for thousand years in which ever way they wished was not ready to accept hindu dominion over them:)
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
What about the separation of Indian Punjab to safeguard the interests of Sikhs? The same fear led to the separation of East and West Pakistan, the fear of economic subjugation within muslims (like other religion followers) was quite strong.
which sepration you are referring to partition of Punjab or Khalistan movement:D
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
^ Separation of Punjab, into Punjab, Haryana and Himachal which was 100 % based on religious basis.
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal's views
I doubt if muslims were econimically better ever leaving the elite, the trader class of Baniya was always richer than average muslim, it is simple to understand, the class which ruled for thousand years in which ever way they wished was not ready to accept hindu dominion over them:)
Exactly. But that was the fear rather than facts which were exploited :D
Re: The concept of Pakistan - Secular or Not - Allama Iqbal’s views
You mean administrative divisions? 
BTW, what was behind Khalistan Movement? Was that economic reasons by any chance?