Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Kaleem, since you know so much about this, please educate us on where this punishment has been ordained by God.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
wow Kaleem is Jewish!!
You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. You shall stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt out of the land of slavery.
—Deuteronomy(13:9-10)
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Kaleem, since you know so much about this, please educate us on where this punishment has been ordained by God.
Kaleem: Could you please give the quranic reference for this punishment? Actual ayat and chapter Please.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
I honestly dont think stoning to death can be justified in todays world... Islam may have called for that in 7th century arabia, amongst a tribal people, but Islam has to change with times.
WRONG! Islam has very strick guidelines when carrying out this punishment...it only applies to those who commit zina and zina is only proven when there are four witnesses who have actually seen penetration...how likely is that to happen???? The only time this happened in the Prophet's time was when when a couple confessed and insisted the Prophet to punish them...Prophet upon hearing them told them to go away, but the couple kept insisting, and that's how they were punished...
So, this is not some sort of a liberally used punishment....its discouraged and even when somebody confesses, they are told to forget about it....
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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
i bet not a single well educated muslim with a proper functioning brain will agree with u.
What do you consider educated???
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Take it easy woman...those people who commited this henious act weren't muslims...unless you go by the degenerate definition of a muslims, which includes all christians, jews, and pagans in the fold...these people were and are pagans and their cohorts are all over Pakistan as well...
First of all, the whole 'stoning to death' thing is for a couple where a married woman commits an adultery with a man (obviously not her husband). However, there should be witnesses, and not just witness, who have seen them committing the act. Just because a girl fell in love with a guy doesn't establishe the grounds to punish her at all.
Generally speaking, it is just a stricter form of punishment to prevent the ummah from living like sex animals... the stricter the punishment, the lower would be chances for the crime to happen (provided the final verdict and punishment is ordered by government and not by their families out of rage or whatever)
It sure is not as harsh as sentencing criminals in the prisons full of gays/lesbian inmates, let them be a sex toy for those inmates and eventually have them suffer with STDs like AIDS, Hepatitis, Herpes and whatnots for lifelong.
AND it is WAY LESS HARSHER than 'punishing' a wife by burning her alive with her husband's chitta, as the wife has committed no crime, then why suffer????
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
What these people did is wrong even according to Islamic law. Unmarried people are not to be stoned to death. They are flogged. Only married people are stoned when they commit adultery. And that too must be proven that adultery was committed.
And secondly, this is not something that Islam brought new. Rajm is also in the torah. Same punishment.
Running away with your non-mahram is not committing adultery. And punishments are not carried out to humiliate people as in this case it is clearly evident.
For muslims should not be doing things like these because they are fully aware of the consequences of it being a muslim. If you are not willing to live witihin the laws of Allah SWT then you should not call yourself a muslim. And yes this is not in the Quran but only in the ahadith.
Those muslims here who are saying this needs to be change are muslims who are not really muslim at heart because if they were they would know that in Islam this is a great sin and that we must abstain from it. Its better to be punished in this world for it then the next.
Non-muslims should not have any say in this because they are not bound to the same beliefs as us.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Those muslims here who are saying this needs to be change are muslims who are not really muslim at heart because if they were they would know that in Islam this is a great sin and that we must abstain from it. Its better to be punished in this world for it then the next.
So by being brutally stoned to death they will not be punished in the next life?
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Non-muslims should not have any say in this because they are not bound to the same beliefs as us.
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As long as you are prepared and content to be judged, condemned and ridiculed by the rest of the world for what is considered by everyone else as barbaric. And as long as you agree Muslims have no say in the beliefs of other cultures but that would leave a lot of mullahs with nothing left to preach.
I say to any Muslim who feels this interpretation is either wrong or dated - bravo! You have my utmost respect. To the others I say nothing because my respect means zilch to you anyway. For something so heinous to be said as 'Allah's will' is perplexing especially as it is derived from hadith and tradition and NOT something God has ordained.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
What these people did is wrong even according to Islamic law. Unmarried people are not to be stoned to death. They are flogged. Only married people are stoned when they commit adultery. And that too must be proven that adultery was committed.
And secondly, this is not something that Islam brought new. Rajm is also in the torah. Same punishment.
Running away with your non-mahram is not committing adultery. And punishments are not carried out to humiliate people as in this case it is clearly evident.
For muslims should not be doing things like these because they are fully aware of the consequences of it being a muslim. If you are not willing to live witihin the laws of Allah SWT then you should not call yourself a muslim. And yes this is not in the Quran but only in the ahadith.
Those muslims here who are saying this needs to be change are muslims who are not really muslim at heart because if they were they would know that in Islam this is a great sin and that we must abstain from it. Its better to be punished in this world for it then the next.
Non-muslims should not have any say in this because they are not bound to the same beliefs as us.
Actually I want to refute my own post. I think I did not wanna say what I said.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Actually, this is what I was going to say. According to the Quran it is only flogging but according to the ahadith it is stoning.
The practice of being stoned was very much prevalent in the time of Prophet Muhammad SAW and before. And this is also a biblical norm unless your ready to state that it was not Gods word in the bible.
I went back to read the verses about adultery again (was a bit rusty here). The verses clearly state the punishment for adultery or fornication is flogging not stoning.
Now I know that in the ahadith it clearly states about stoning as well but then that would be against the Quranic injunction, so my vote is for what is in the Quran in this case.
What is in the ahadith is probably also true but probably pre-dates the revelation of the verse about flogging in the Quran. This is the only way I can reconcile between the two unless someone can provide me evidence otherwise.
The verse states both adultery or fornication, mind you, they are both illegal sexual intercourse however both have a different context. Adultery involves married people whereas fornication involves unmarried people. So the verse applies to both.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Here is the verse btw:
24:2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Dear guppies I would recommend ignoring RockingVibes posts. You can't teach people respect by arguing with them.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
So by being brutally stoned to death they will not be punished in the next life?
And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. (An-Nisa 4:16)
And repentance is not for those who go on doing evil deeds, until when death comes to one of them, he says: Surely now I repent; nor (for) those who die while they are unbelievers. (An'Nissa 4:18)
Oa a side note, after doing a little research myself, I would also like to go with USResident post where he/she said that stoning to death for adultery is not mentioned in Quran anywhere, it is 100 flogs, which again should be carried out if there were four solid witnesses who saw the adultery happening.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
As far as I am concerned, the reason why we live this life in the first place is to learn between what is right and what is wrong. This life is a test given to us by god and it is up to us as to how we decide to live this life. It is upto god and god only can decide what is a sinful act and what is not a sinful act. I am sure that god looks at each life as an "individual case" in the hereafter. We all do not live the same lives and we all have different beliefs, but we are fellow human beings have no right to judge who is doing right and who is doing wrong. If someone commits a sinful act in this life, only god is responsible for punishing them and not fellow human beings. We are all made by the same creator and we all are in this life for the same purpose. How we live it is upto us and whether we are punished for our decisions we make in life or not, again is upto god. People seem to forget that there is a life after death and that is when the real "life" is - this earth, as far as I am concerned is hell. There is nothing but torture, pain and jealousy on this earth. Continuing this journey of life is hard - very hard. It was painful coming into it when we were born (we dont remember the pain) and its painful for our souls to live inside a tight vehicle called our "body" (we have gotten used to the pain by now and dont feel it so much anymore). Also this earth is very dense. I am not denying there is another Hell for sinners after they die - of course there is, but it is very much linked to the plane of this earth. There is fire on this earth and fire in hell. Let people just live their lives and let god decide who should be punished and who shouldnt. We need to STOP playing god. Dont we fear our own lives in the hereafter??
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
The problem that we have with the Qur'aan, is that people have their own different interpretations of it.... So how do we know which is the most accurate interpretation? I personally think that reading the Qur'aan and understanding what it says ISNT as easy as that!! I think you need to read more then between the lines of it, to get the general understanding of it. Remember that Qur'aanic scholars and those who spend their life studying it are also subject to error. We are all human and hense not perfect. If we were perfect then why would we be on this earth in the first place? Oh yeah, and the only being that is perfect is god himself.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
u can watch the video of the girl killed by stoning.
Shame on people who did this and shame on those who agree that it is right way of giving punishment.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
this is really sad that alot of educated people here on this forum still cant distinguish between a barbaric Fked up arab culture and teachings of islam....
here is a tip for all those ignorant morons who claim to know islam very well....stoning to death is not islamic teachings.... Its been there for ages in the arabian and surrounding peninsula.....do some reading...read about jesus and the women who was going to get stoned by the mob.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. (An-Nisa 4:16)
And repentance is not for those who go on doing evil deeds, until when death comes to one of them, he says: Surely now I repent; nor (for) those who die while they are unbelievers. (An'Nissa 4:18)
You are giving Quranic references for punishments that are not in the Quran. How could someone repent while being stoned to death? In between throws they are going to have time to become closer to God? Maybe that's why this type of cruel execution is not sanctioned in the Quran, it doesn't give the sinner the time to repent.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Disgusting incident.....and equally disgusting are some Islamically "enlightened" peoples views who are supporting this.
Definately I will argue with that kind of "God" who has ordered people to gather at one place and throw stone on an imaginary Satan every year, over and over again.
Such acts make that satan look victim and innocent, those Stone Throwing "enlightened" nuts look more like Satan.