The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

Did those people not laugh when they heard someone taking charge of the full government when a case was about to go against him?

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

well yes they dnt make sense cos they were never ment to and the courts just wanted to do one thing, halt the economic boom.

also being replaced for a project is a normal thing around the world, people were replaced for the mangla dam and those people were not even given compensation and left homeless, where were the courts then?

in UK we had a resturant and gov. took it away from us cos a developer wanted to take the whole area down to make a shopping mall, we could do nothing.
its not about villagers losing their homes, you think about pakistan and its economic succes it will gain from these projects, its about time we all follow musharraf and use the ideology 'PAKISTAN COMES FIRST', its what all developing countrys are using to boost there economy, its happening everywhere even in the developed world.
it happens 10 times a day in china.
people take there compensation and walk away, the courts need to start thinking of pakistan first.

as for gov, halting buildings near their buildings, then no, it happens everywhere.
mall road is the heart of lahore, the busines hub of lahore, if the city wants to develop a big business hub then this is the area where high rise buildings would be made, otherwise you can forget lahore being a busines center.

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

firstly like i said the cases were all false, they were fabricated, for mangroves look on google earth, its a complete different island emaar has choosen.
secondly, this is not an oil drilling project these are real estate projects, you are comparing apples with bananas.

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

So what I understand is that Chief Justice woke up one day and said that I am going to stop Emaar from Building a multi-story building or whatever. Who brought the case against Emaar? and what was the case all about? Was there a rival party, who bribed Chief Justice to stopped Emaar, so that they can build it themselves. I don't know this story, so please enlighten us!

If you think that Oil-drilling is not a good example, How about building new residential developments in Chespeake bay in USA. You have to go through a lot of approvals and oversight, if you want to start a new developement. In Pakistan, we don't have any of such regulations and if Supreme Court take any action on it, Why be surprised!

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

If courts really wanted to halt economic boom howcome we had "Unprecedented Economic Growth" of 7% so far? You are only looking at select cases. Also, tell me how come the govt just realised that CJ was so bad? Anything to do with upcoming decision on Mushy? Also, you still haven't told us about which courts are really involved and who were the "rival" parties filing the case against these projects???

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also being replaced for a project is a normal thing around the world, people were replaced for the mangla dam and those people were not even given compensation and left homeless, where were the courts then?
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I sincerely hope you understand difference between Mangla Dam and a commercial/business development.

[quote]
in UK we had a resturant and gov. took it away from us cos a developer wanted to take the whole area down to make a shopping mall, we could do nothing.
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Two wrongs doesn't make things right. It only shows bigger money wins, no values/laws.

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

Like UK, Does Pakistan have any annexation laws of taking land from an individual user and give to a corporation for building big projects, which theoraticaly would be better for the greater good of the society. If not, then there ought to be one, if you want to grab some land from somebody. Otherwise, Supreme Court would surely step in.

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

Real Estate Project would be even worse compared to Oil Drilling Project considering that US is fighting all over the world for oil resources.

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

hmmm central asian oil bhi nikalna hai thru dwadar..
runs

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

Some people are confused about the relationship between Executives and Judiciary. Obviously, many have different understanding about this relationship, but from my understanding Judiciary is a tool of executives (government) and should not start behaving as if they are boss. When such happens, country can go into spin and anarchy can cause emergency what happened in Pakistan.

I think that Judiciary was acting as enemy of state and was using constitution and the power they were given to harm the country and stop executives of the country to run the country effectively. I do not know the causes but it seems that ego of some judges became cause of this stupid behaviour of judges, and they deserved to get sack.

Running of a country is duty of executives. They are responsible of all wrongs and rights in the country. If justice is not given, if education is low, if laws are not properly enforced, if economy goes bad, if corruption increases, if inflation increases, if joblessness increases, if terrorism increases, if international relationship deteriorates, etc, than all blames goes to executives. On the other hand, similarly credit for all good in the country goes to executives.

Thus executives rule the country. Sole purpose of all institutions in the country, including Judiciary is to help executives to run the country in most appropriate and effective way. I believe that as long as executives are running the country with commitments and giving good governance, to hinder executives by any institution is treachery.

Relationship between executives and judiciary should be very close and full of trust. If relationship between Judiciary and executives shatters or mistrust starts, than judiciary has to go. Similarly, if Judiciary starts hindering executives from running the country effectively, than also judiciary has to go. [Normally, judiciary everywhere in the world does not do anything to shatter that relationship, or hinder executives from governance effectively, whoever is ruling the country]

It does not mean that individual in executive in their personal life for personal gain abuse power and judiciary supports that, but if executive uses power in any way (that may sometime could be unconstitutional) to rule the country effectively, judiciary has to help executive.

Example: Suppose executive considers A is terrorist and acts against A by interning A or even eliminating A, than judiciary should not become obstacle for executive by bringing constitutional right of A into question and making that an excuse to give A relief, as that would hinder executive to stop A from terrorism in the country. [Note: Here a particular executive is not acting against A for personal reasons, but if judiciary thinks that there is reason to believe that a particular person in executive is victimizing A because of personal reason than judiciary can act against that executive].

I personally believe that most people that Pakistan government was holding (had interned) on terrorist grounds were not due to any personal reason but government genuinely believed that these people are involved in terrorism or were linked to terrorists. Law enforcement agencies were acting together with government against these people (shows that it was not due to any personal enmity), and it was not some individuals in law enforcement agencies or government that were acting against such people for personal reasons (victimizing the person interned).

For instance, there was no personal enmity of anyone in government or law enforcement agency against Rashid of Lal-Mashid but it was his ‘breaking the law and creating unrest in Islamabad and spreading discomforting situation in Pakistan’ that caused government (and law enforcement agency) to act against him. In such case, judiciary cannot start looking at constitution to see what relief they can give to Rashid. But if judiciary starts giving relief to peoples like Rashid, it means judiciary is adversely affecting and interfering the running of the country, that to me is absolutely wrong and against the interest of the country.

Similarly, people that were interned by government whom Supreme Court got released by CJ actions, were not personal enemy of any person from law enforcement agency or government and thus their internment was to do with genuine believe by the government that these were terrorist or liked to terrorism. In such cases, Judiciary should not have interfered, but since they did, they did wrong and against the country.

Note: If any person interned was due to personal enmity than Judiciary could have acted (in such case, law enforcement agency together with government could not have got involved anyhow).

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

Judiciary is not a “tool” of executives… oh yes, I forgot we are discussing dictatorships, sorry.

:rotfl: some concept of cross check n balances you have… oops, I forgot again we are discussing dictatorships.

You mean the way Saddam had his courts?

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

No, it is not about dictatorships its about any government. I used executives for those that run the government.

Just imagine, if there is country where people do not get justice, than who do you blame? Judiciary or rulers? If you blame Judiciary than Judiciary is not tool of rulers, but if you would blame rulers (and that is what happens) then judiciary is tool of rulers.

Same way if one finds good and prompt justice in a country, than one give credit to rulers and not Judiciary.

Reason is obvious. Judiciary is tool of rulers. Rulers use judiciary to provide justice to the people and that is why rulers get blame for bad judiciary and credit for good judiciary.

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

No, its not that simple. Blame for lack of justice goes towards law enforcement and judiciary if justice is not available largely. When a government is blamed for lack of justice it means they are being blamed for either interfering in the law enforcement or interfering in judiciary or not providing enough for either LEAs or judiciar or other several combinations. Judiciary should be an independent institution rather than a tool for executives to use them per their desires/wants.

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

Excellent post. :k:

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

well yes it looks exactly like that thief justice had just woken up and decided its time tarnish pakistan, yet some people have made him a hero just cos they dnt like musharraf:halo:

the story on emaar is quite old and all i can remember is that a party had filled a petition saying emaar will destroy the mangroves on bundal island when the mangroves were not even on bundal island but the island behind it, and the court just got an excuse to block the project.
well i gave a link to ssc and you should go there and read on the project.

an oil drilling project is tens of thousand miles out of the city while real estate projects are in the city and used by the public unlike oil drilling projects so comparing them is silly,
and again Chespeake bay is another bad comparison for karachi, karachi is pakistans new york its the business capital, so compare it with usa’s business capital, why againt a little village, in new york even mr trump is making a development in the coast on a island, so why ot in karachi, we just dnt look at pakistan and the benefits these projects bring to it do we, then we ask why are we in such a position.

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Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

we had this boom since 2004, the judges got a grudge against the gov. after the sacking of the thief justice.
so they have no connection at all.
on the projects i have answer the questions in the post above, as for courts it was the supreme court and the high courts.

they are both projects in which people residants are removed and compensated, but wernt in mangla dam, that is what i am pointing it, where were the courts then???

no one is saying people should be forcly removed but when the projects have such high benefits for the country like emaars projects were bringing then there is no question they should be made at any costs.

so its the wrongs that bring prosperity and economic growth.

and what does that have to do with pakistan?
please enlighten me.

like i said in my previous post
an oil drilling project is tens of thousand miles out of the city while real estate projects are in the city and used by the public unlike oil drilling projects so comparing them is silly,

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

That is a pretty bogus proof. Please bring something more concrete.

Please read the whole story about Bundal Island as reported in Dawn. Please go to the following link: http://www.dawn.com/2006/10/28/fea.htm

Looks like this problem existed even before there is tussle between Musharaf and Chief Justice. Secondly even the Sind government have some reservations about this project. And in the article above from dawn, don’t forget to look at the map of bundal island for mangroves forest.

Its not about Chesapeake bay or New York, its about checks and balances. If you let the commerical development continue without any restrictions or rules and regulations, the developers would usurp the whole country. If Supreme Court is halting a project to see the project’s impact on local environment, people or economy, Do you think that they are doing a bad thing.

Secondly Chesapeake bay is not a remote village. Its a short drive away from Metrapolis of Washington DC/Baltimore with population of more than 8 million.

Re: The Chief Justice and the well overdue emergency

[QUOTE]
like i said in my previous post
an oil drilling project is tens of thousand miles out of the city while real estate projects are in the city and used by the public unlike oil drilling projects so comparing them is silly,
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I think in this day and age, any oil-drilling project would be more important then any real-estate development. Don't you think that cheaper oil would be beneficial for 'PUBLIC', which according to you doesn't have any intrerest in oil-drilling and doesn't use oil like a real estate project.