Wasalam Ibn Sadique. Habibi, the iheritors of the guidance after the Prophet are his Ahlul Bayt (as). What do you think of the following authentic muttawatir hadiths found in Shia and Sunni books alike: "I m leaving among you something which is very important and should be followed, you will not go astray if you get hold of it after I am gone, one part of it being more important than the other: Allah's Book, which is a rope stretched from Heaven to Earth, and my close relatives, who belong to my household. These two will not separate from one another till they come down to the reservoir, so consider how you act regarding them after my departure." (Sahi Tirmidhi, Sahi Sahih Muslim etc)
Salaams brother *Surdar Asif *
We are drifting away from the questions I had raised. I want to stick to those points only. Otherwise we two will get sucked into unending debate :)
Following is my query:
1) How does the Hidden Imam Guide/help the Shia?
2) Who was the Imam preceding Prophet (saw) and the one before him?
Anyhow not to disappoint you I’ll respond to it any way but do not have the time to get into side issues.
The above version of Hadith al-Thaqalayn quoted by you is not is the Sahih Muslimas you have stated.!!
The Tirmidhi version is considered weak by all as this version has suspect narrators.
The version in Sahih Muslim is as follows:
*Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him: “Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)”.
He said: “I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that”.
He then said: “One day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family”.
He (Husain) said to Zaid: “Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family”?
Thereupon he said: “His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden”.
And he said: “Who are they”?
Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes. - Sahih Muslim :: Book 31 : Hadith 5920 *
Since Ahlul Bayt (raa) are mentioned we both have issue to who they are.
The Sunnis love Ahlul Bayt (raa) and includes wives and other close members of the Prophet family.
In the above version (Sahih Muslim) the Prophet (saw) reminds the Muslims to our duties towards all the members of his pious family saying: “I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family”.
The following ayah (which you have quoted below) confirms that the Prophet (saw) wanted his followers to love, respect and treat ALL of his family honourably.
Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful. [Shakir 42:23]
Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin." And if any one earns any good, We shall give him an increase of good in respect thereof: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service). [Yusufali 42:23]
Say (O Muhammad, unto mankind): I ask of you no fee therefor, save loving kindness among kinsfolk. And whoso scoreth a good deed We add unto its good for him. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Responsive. [Pickthal 42:23]
All the children (not just select one and ignoring others), Father in laws, Son in laws, cousins, all the grandchildren and any other who can be considered as near relatives are covered by the above ayahs.
Are you going to stick to select four who to you were around the Prophet (saw) only?
Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish." (Sahi Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 89, Number 329) The above case is further supported by the Quran when it states: [Shakir 42:23] That is of which Allah gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful.
Thehadith says twelve rulers are from Quraish and not inclusive of only Bani Hashim (Prophet’s Clan). How does this apply to 12er Imams?
Is it because of number 12 is common?
Please refer to my reply above this quotation as it is relevant to this too.
Tell me brother, Apart from Hz. Ali (ra) and Hz. Hassan (ra) who else from the progeny of Hz. Ali (ra) became the rulers? I mean they were called Amir ul momineen?
None!!! So this hadith is irrelevant here.
The above case is further supported by the Quran when it states: [Shakir 42:23] That is of which Allah gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful. Habibi, these arguments are futile unless you have some understanding of the concept of Imamat. We as Shias have certain understanding of this concept and i request you to produce your understanding of it.
You had quoted the following ayah oft used by the Shia in support for Concept of Imamate:
2:124 And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled: He said: "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." He pleaded: "And also (Imams) from my offspring!" He answered: "But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers."
Waithi ibtala ibraheema rabbuhu bikalimatin faatammahunna qala innee jaAAiluka lilnnasi imaman qala wamin thurriyyatee qala la yanalu AAahdee alththalimeena
Now please refer to the following ayah:
Quran, 25:71-74: “And whoever repents and does good has truly turned to Allah with an (acceptable) conversion; Those who witness no falsehood, and, if they pass by futility, they pass by it with honorable (avoidance); Those who, when they are admonished with the Signs of their Lord, droop not down at them as if they were deaf or blind; Those who say: ‘Our Lord, grant us the coolness of our eyes in our wives and children, and make us leaders (imams) of the pious.’”
Waman taba waAAamila salihan fainnahu yatoobu ila Allahi mataban Waallatheena la yashhadoona alzzoora waitha marroo biallaghwi marroo kiraman Waallatheena itha thukkiroo biayati rabbihim lam yakhirroo AAalayha summan waAAumyanan Waallatheena yaqooloona rabbana hab lana min azwajina wathurriyyatina qurrata aAAyunin waijAAalna lilmuttaqeena imaman
In the above Allah (swt) is referring to righteous believers who are not even Prophets but are repenters and good doers also entreat to Allah (swt) to bestow upon them Imamah (Leadership)!
So anyone who meets the above criteria (are repenters and good doers ) can invoke Allah (swt) to bestow Imamah upon them.
This has nothing to do with infallibilty.
Also check the following and see that the word Imam can be used for evil leadership!!!!
9:12 Wain nakathoo aymanahum min baAAdi AAahdihim wataAAanoo fee deenikum faqatiloo aimmata alkufri innahum la aymana lahum laAAallahum yantahoona
9:12 But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the Imams (chiefs) of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained.
28:41 WajaAAalnahum aimmatan yadAAoona ila alnnari wayawma alqiyamati la yunsaroona
28:41 And we made them (but) imams (leaders) inviting to the Fire; and on the Day of Judgment no help shall they find.
Brother I am confined with time so i’ll appreciate if you can address the following only:
1) How does the Hidden Imam Guide/help the Shia?
2) Who was the Imam preceding Prophet (saw) and the one before him?