The American Dream is Dead

And praise the superiority of the European-styled socialist welfare state!!! One extract from the following article says it all.

If you are born into poverty in the US you are actually more likely to remain in poverty than in other countries in Europe, the Nordic countries, even Canada

Whilst there is still no doubting that the US economy is stronger and superior to all of these European economies put together, at the end of the day that wealth is not disseminated through society as in Europe and Canada. It remains in the hands of too few, and social problems occur as a result

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4159974.stm

It was a brilliant, hot day on the Seattle waterfront, with unspoilt views across the sound to outlying islands.

Just beyond a stretch of grass where people lay with books and lovers, came the melody of live unaccompanied singing from deep within the bustle of the nearby Pike Market.

It turned out to be four men outside a cafe singing a love song about Cupid, each with different voice ranges, and a deep, swaying crowd, clapping along.

The Starbucks logo of the cafe struck me as a little old-fashioned until someone mentioned that this was the first Starbucks ever opened anywhere in the world.

I had come to Seattle because of a recent survey by the Centre for Economic Performance in London, on how easy or difficult it was to get rich in different parts of the world - or if not rich, at least move out of poverty.

“If you are born into poverty in the US,” said one of its authors, “you are actually more likely to remain in poverty than in other countries in Europe, the Nordic countries, even Canada, which you would think would not be that different.”

**Possibilities **

The study, together with general anti-American sentiment which has become more prevalent since the Iraq war, raised for me a question about the American dream - the idea that the United States is a place where anything is possible. I had chosen Seattle not only because Starbucks was created there, but also because Microsoft and Amazon Books and Boeing airliners all come from this small city. Dreams, if you want, which began small but are now global brands.

“Great day, isn’t it?” I turned to see the lined, and drawn face of a man I will call Dave.

“Are you getting what you want?”

We had met a couple of days earlier when he was having breakfast at a charity for the broke and homeless, and I had asked him if he believed in the American dream.

“The American dream,” Dave said, eating a muffin and wiping his lips with a paper napkin.

“Well, it comes and goes. It will come again.”

**Winners and losers **

In a low-ceilinged eating hall, maybe 100 men sat side by side along trestle tables.

They had queued up since five, registered in case there was any work, then ate while security guards watched over them in case there was trouble.

In Europe or just across the border in Canada, they would get social security, but this was America, where society is starkly divided into winners and losers.

Strangely, though, there seemed to be little resentment or blame of government. American culture is about self-reliance and the individual fighting a way through.

“The American dream,” said one of the men, his eyes dartingly alive, his nose so skewed it must have been broken many times in different fights.

“I guess you are talking about a home, wife, children and all that.”

“Do you have it?” I said.

“No. No. I don’t. I had my opportunities, but I lost.”

**Control **

Just up the road in a small print shop, a fit, thoughtful former air force officer, Bobby Ray Forbes, was slotting calendars into envelopes. His life collapsed when his marriage went wrong. He had ended up on the street, but recently had managed to get a job and keep it.

“Oh sure, I have had the house, picket fence, two cars,” he said.

“But I put myself in a position where the government could take control. Right now I am happy just being back in control. You see, what a lot of people do not know is that the key is not getting the American dream. It is holding onto it.”

In Europe, the government is entwined with a lot of what we do, yet in America, I felt a sentiment that the more say the government has over you, the more you carry a sense of failure.

Yet millions still yearn to come and take up the challenge.

A million a year settle to start the process of becoming American citizens. Half a million actually take the oath.

**Flag waving **

At the landscaped Seattle centre, using cards and newspapers to shield themselves from the sun, rows and rows of immigrants at a naturalisation ceremony listened to local officials speak about various aspects of the American dream.

They came from everywhere: Britain, France, Iran, Iraq - the name of every country read out, to cheers, as if we were at the Oscars and, of course, the waving of American flags.

“Why do you want to live here and not in Europe?” I asked a young woman from Ethiopia, who tipped back her Seattle Mariners baseball cap and looked at me as if I were completely mad.

“Europe,” she said disdainfully. “What do they ever hope for in Europe? Here they have a law that you can dream to be happy.”

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I love Eurasia!! our homeland....

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Funny, in a recent poll, over half of the Mexican population said that they wanted to immigrate to the US. Visa applications don't seem to have dropped a bit. So, in the eyes of millions the US is a much better dream than anywhere else.

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"According to a recent poll, 40% of Mexicans would move to the U.S. if they could. The other 60% couldn't answer because they already live here." - Conan O'Brian.

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The beauty of propoganda…whoops sorry hollywood.

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Such a pointless article - I am an immigrant and know hundreds of immigrants - desi as well as other. I do not know one single case where they did not make it good to fantastic in the USA. The only 'big' problem I have seen in case of desis is the cultural adjustment - those 1st generation desi immigrants who refuse to let their kids merge with the local culture.

As far as locals (non immigrants) are concerned - obviously I know a lot more of these than immigrants - EVERY (EVERY) case of job loss either due to outsourcing or base shut down, I have seen the person bounce back and land OK or better. That includes browns, whites, black and even a couple of yellows.

The American Dream IMO is well safe and in fact more real and realizable than the Euro African or Arab nightmares.

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Actually untrue. Immigrants in Europe (First generations) have a higher standard of living by default in Western Europe. They earn more. They have better education and of course excellent health services.

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^ compare the pakis in Europe to Pakis in the US and come back to me.

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PD i don't need to come back to you because we both know i am right.

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I don't think its easy to say that poor remains poor (or harder to come out of it). I actually think US provides more opportunities for its poor to come out of it, its upto people to grab it and hold on to it.

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America rocks! There is a very good reason for describing Europeans as "Eurotrash"

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I think it all depends on how you choose to define "the dream." If you think the dream is to be assured that you will live at a higher standard of poverty, then maybe Europe is better. The tradeoff for the higher low is lowering the obtainable high you can reach. Higher lows = lower highs. If you lower the reachable highs too much, then you create a disincentive for hard work and creativity.

The American dream has never been about assuring every person that they will reach some minimal standard of existence. It is and always has been about preserving the opportunity for every person to reach incredibly high standards of existence. That dream lives.

You can argue all you want about which system or focus for a society is better. I like ours. So do the millions who immigrate here. If they want to be unproductive and still have a higher minimum standard of living, let them go to France or anywhere else in Europe they want. That type of person does not help prime the pump for our economic engine.

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^ first sane comment in months MV. Did Dick not show up last night?

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any evidence to back up that declaration?

anyway, what has that to do with American dream being well and alive?

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I swear you americans are a delusional lot. The average minimum swiss wage for the garbage man is 3000 sfr after tax. What is america's? The Govt makes it mandatory that everybody have insurance and it is damn affordable. If you are below 25 you pay 100 sfr A YEAR for health insurance that covers ever sort of opertion imaginable. Housing levels are great. Heck the govt subsidies housing to the point where people pay 50 sfr a monthf or a 4 bedroom house because the guy is unemployed. Legal immigrants also get 80% of their salary for 6 months after they lose their jobs if the have a C permit.

Europe has even better laws mainly thanks to the french where you get paid more and work less. The american dream is to prosper. Not to reach the ultimate peak. The American dream is that you can be whatever you want to be in the US. That is a pipedream. As always if you want to get anywhere in the US you have to from the right families, the right background, religion, heritage and if you ask the minorities the right skin color.

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^ what? "not to reach the ultimate peak"? what the fk does that mean? Maybe you don;t know what the term, American dream, really means. It is about individualism and Horatio alger, it is about putting together companies in the garage not collecting 80% of your salary for sitting on your ass. It is about a country having the larest numbers of millionaries in the world. The largest number of millionaires below the age of 40 in the world.

BTW, france share of global trade went down 15% in the last year. ooops.... what kindo fmodel are you peddling son...no, not here. You are out of league. Come to world affairs, I opened a whole new thread for you when you asked, but you ran away. por que? :(

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And what is the poverty level in the US compared to Europe? How many people lack basic health care? How many lack medicine and doctors? How many lack proper child labor protection?

You can say what ever you want because you have nothing better to do than stick your head in the stand. Europe heck Poland has a better standard of living for immigrants than the US does. They have higher wages, better social welfare etc etc etc.

I already made my point in that thread. You said it yourself actually. The report is revised every year because their predictions are no longer valid. So no need to peddle a report that isn't valid 2 months later let alone 50 years.

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I know heat waves don't kill 10,000 in the U.S.

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"I already made my point in that thread. You said it yourself actually. The report is revised every year because their predictions are no longer valid. So no need to peddle a report that isn't valid 2 months later let alone 50 years."

the basic thesis doesn't change in that report. the actuals are actually more positive year over year for BRICs making my point much more valid. As I said, you are out of your league. Short on experience and even shorter on factual knowledge.

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Maddy, I agree with you that “The American Dream is Dead” for the pakistanis, for now.