The amazing thing about Pakistani cricket team/officials

I hope I dont sound condescending just because India won the series. I just want to get this in since it has been on my mind for some time :

It never ceases to amaze me how Pakistani cricketers/officials bad-mouth each other in public and sometimes in the middle of a game. This thing (unlike other deshi attributes) is not unique to the Subcontinent, this is unique to PAKISTAN.

In the midst of the series, you have the captain speaking ill of his bowlers(without mincing any words, I must add), the PCB CEO (who, by the way, continues to do commentary and write columns) regularly condemning the players and the players back-biting to outsiders/ex-cricketers about their colleagues while a series is on (e.g. Shoaib telling Latif, Inzy doesn’t give him the field he wants).

Deshis being deshis, I dont expect Pakistanis to be professional like the Aussies…so a better comparison would be with the Indians.

I am sure in the Indian team too (just like in any other team) there would be players who dont have the best of relationship with certain other players…but to their credit, you dont see them criticizing each other in public. This was true even during the days of Azharuddin’s captaincy when it was known that the players had some real issues with each other.(It was not until the match-fixing episode that such issues came into the fore).

Today, lets say if Pathan was to flop in a series…surely you would expect Ganguly to be more diplomatic than declare to the media that “Pathan is not world-class, he is more hype and less on performance” or something on those lines…

Sometimes I wonder - after what Inzy and Shoaib have said about each other - how they see eye-2-eye in the field… I mean does Inzy look down when he hands the ball to Akhtar…

And finally there are Paki ex-cricketers who want to remain in the lime light no matter what…except for a few ex-players (e.g. Wasim), it looks like the ex-Paki players (including Imran) have nothing better to do in life than take pot-shots at the team.

Across the border in India, other than a few attention-whores like “Bishen Singh Bedi”, ex-players are by and large moderate and normally dont make their personal views about certain players public.

So, in conclusion, I think what Pakistan urgently needs is not a bowling/batting coach ( a fielding coach would be good though :slight_smile: ) but a diplomacy coach. And here they might look to Sharyar(sp?) Khan to teach them how to conduct themselves in public.

Some1, you make some very good points. But I disagree with you on some stuff.

If guys like Sami and Shoaib can't get their basic line and length right then what is a captain to do especially if they refuse to learn even after playing 5-6 matches in the series so can't even say they don't have match practice? Shoaib is an experienced bowler now and Sami isn't exactly a baby now. I mean I just don't get it. Heck even an ordinary on the street cricketer such as I would know as much: if you're spraying the ball all over the place, you CUT DOWN on the speed, not increase it. You focus on getting the right line and length and then increase your speed slowly as the muscle memory comes back. I mean honestly is that too hard to understand?

Inzi was completely justified in everything he said about our opening bowlers. They've shared the new ball for quite some time now and it's about time they learned that pace isn't everything. I think having Waqar or Aqib as bowling coach will tremendously help a gifted guy like Sami a lot. Shoaib is a different case though, only a medical procedure can help him.

Pathan or Balaji are also a different case from our bowlers - they're young and in the beginning every player needs confidence. You probably didn't follow Sami and Shoaib in the beginnig. These two were pampered like babies too and kept in wraps like they were newborns. But given how far they're in their careers, Inzi was correct. Ponting gave Lee the same treatment in public. But Lee instead of bicthing about cricket being a team game and other players not pulling their weight, made the Steve Waugh excuse one time and then took his game to a new level.

And also that bit about needing a diplomatic coach is not going to work for Pakistan, IMO. I would really like someone educated, well-qualified and decent like Wasim Raja to be our coach. But realistically speaking if a hard taskmaster like Miandad (he has his faults but he definitely doesn't mince words) can't get Shoaib and Sami in line, Wasim Raja does not have a hope in hell. If you get a professional guy like Raja, our superstars will simply scheme and plot the poor guy out. Raja would prolly be a fine coach, if you got all good early twenties kids playing under him but not experienced drama queens like Shoaib.

But yes, I agree seeing the CEO of a national cricket board do commentary, write articles, pick fights with ex-players, and openly question the commitment of our star players (as valid as all his reasons might be) is absolutely ridiculous. Rameez is a great guy but whether the CEO gets paid or not, he should go over his job description now and stop embarassing Pak cricket.

Even Shahryar Khan has no business commenting on the performance of the team like he's the coach. He is the head of the PCB, he not need bother himself if Shoaib Akhtar broke his pinky or if he stuck his own finger in his own eye. Tauqeer Zia set a really bad precedent in this regard, I felt. He seemed less a PCB chairman and more an ex-player with an axe to grid who had to comment on Pak's performance every time we lost. You don't hear the chairman of the ACB always interfering on the game aspect of cricket. he concerns himself with making sure the administration of the game stays healthy. he doesn't care if Steve Waugh is dropped from the ODI side or not. that is Trevor Hohns' decision.

sorry for the uber long post but as you can probably guess, I'm very frustrated. I could go on and on but there is simply no point. I give up.

Sambi,

I dont think anybody will disagree with content of what Inzi said about bowlers. But I think Some1 is talking about timing of his statement and whether it was necessary to say that.Is it necessary for a captain to criticize his bowler publically with whom he will have to play next few years. And is it necessary to criticize in the middle of series. Lots of player have bad days or bad series but how many time have you heard any captain criticizing there players publicly. This is something which should be done in close rooms not in public.
Thats whythe need of diplomacy coach.Todays world when we know that media makes story out of nothing..if you go ahead and say stuff like this then it bound to create rift in team.
Just my 2 cents.

f&b, Ponting critcized Lee publicly, I gave his example up there. And I agree this is not the approach of lots of captains and should not be overused and will lead to disastrous results if applied to young, inexperienced players. But as I said, Ponting’s public beration of Lee earned spectacular results for Australia such as the 2003 World Cup. So, I still stand by Inzi’s public outburst and it did win us the second match. Maybe Inzi should’ve done the same thing before the 3rd test? :hehe:

At the same time, I’m not too happy with Youhana publicly saying that other young batsmen need to support him and Inzi - which while very true perhaps gave India the mental edge even before the match. Everyone knows that our batting completely depends on these two but that comment could perhaps been avoided. There’s no need to present your weakness to the opposition on a platter.

There’s a difference between pulling up players who believe they are superstars for their lack of commitment, and running down young players for their mistakes and announcing your weaknesses to the world.

Good Point Some1

All i can say about the difference (to India in this case) is the level of education and the level of understanding each others mind/behaviour especially in situation where u r not doing well on the field ......

It only highlights that certain ppl in controle of different jobs in the PCB/TEAM r not able to communicate directly so they take the press conference and other means to get some pressure on certain ppl ...... which is not that wrong but only the way they achieve it is wrong ...... it doesn't help to create/build the team as a solid unit ...... which we've seen through past and this series

Extremely well put, Some1. YOu've said what has been mystifying me for some time. It seems just about everyone is carping about the other in Pakistan. Then one reads about Imran not inviting Miandad to his dinner - pretty sadistic if you ask me.

Indian media gives a lot of space to ex-cricketers but no one loses sleep over what they say. On the other hand someone like Imran or Latif can lift morale by showing support in public, then going about trying to change things behind the scene.

Lastly, I would agree with Shoaib that cricket is about 11 against 11, and not Shoaib against 11. The batsmen let him down just as much. So did the fielders.

Re: The amazing thing about Pakistani cricket team/officials

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Some1: *
I hope I dont sound condescending just because India won the series. I just want to get this in since it has been on my mind for some time :

It never ceases to amaze me how Pakistani cricketers/officials bad-mouth each other in public and sometimes in the middle of a game. This thing (unlike other deshi attributes) is not unique to the Subcontinent, this is unique to PAKISTAN.

In the midst of the series, you have the captain speaking ill of his bowlers(without mincing any words, I must add), the PCB CEO (who, by the way, continues to do commentary and write columns) regularly condemning the players and the players back-biting to outsiders/ex-cricketers about their colleagues while a series is on (e.g. Shoaib telling Latif, Inzy doesn't give him the field he wants).

Deshis being deshis, I dont expect Pakistanis to be professional like the Aussies...so a better comparison would be with the Indians.

I am sure in the Indian team too (just like in any other team) there would be players who dont have the best of relationship with certain other players....but to their credit, you dont see them criticizing each other in public. This was true even during the days of Azharuddin's captaincy when it was known that the players had some real issues with each other.(It was not until the match-fixing episode that such issues came into the fore).

Today, lets say if Pathan was to flop in a series....surely you would expect Ganguly to be more diplomatic than declare to the media that "Pathan is not world-class, he is more hype and less on performance" or something on those lines....

Sometimes I wonder - after what Inzy and Shoaib have said about each other - how they see eye-2-eye in the field... I mean does Inzy look down when he hands the ball to Akhtar...

And finally there are Paki ex-cricketers who want to remain in the lime light no matter what...except for a few ex-players (e.g. Wasim), it looks like the ex-Paki players (including Imran) have nothing better to do in life than take pot-shots at the team.

Across the border in India, other than a few attention-whores like "Bishen Singh Bedi", ex-players are by and large moderate and normally dont make their personal views about certain players public.

So, in conclusion, I think what Pakistan urgently needs is not a bowling/batting coach ( a fielding coach would be good though :) ) but a diplomacy coach. And here they might look to Sharyar(sp?) Khan to teach them how to conduct themselves in public.
[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with each and every word said above. One has to face the reality. Reality, which may be bitter and tough but if, faced with dignity and courage eventually leads you towards success.

I was shocked and absolutely demoralized after reading such a sensitive article by our national team captain right in the middle of the series criticizing his own teammates and Jesus Christ…which newspaper our captain chose to publish such an article?….AN INDIAN NEWSPAPER. Don’t thing I am biased against Indians but come on…we are in the middle of a tough series against Indians…Inzi what are you doing?….how come you chose such an article to be published in an Indian newspaper right in the middle of series and top of that you are leading Pakistan… you are our captain, you are leading our side, you are our national pride, you represent our national ego….if you have to do laundry so urgently, for god sake do it inside your own home…why do you have to go to your opponents home to use their laundry machine…..

Yes Samb. You are right when you said that inzi was justified in criticizing his fast bowlers. I did agree with each and word of inzi article but the million dollar question is the timing of his decision and the medium he chose to express himself….Samb, how could you justify inzi writing such an article in an Indian newspaper right in middle of series as an acting captain….Just imagine, if Pakistan was visiting india and beating them heavily, do you really think, gangly would have written such an article in DAWN or NEWS.....

And you gave Lee example. But in that case Ponting was not writing an article right in the middle of an on-going series in opposing team's newspaper. Second, just because Ponting did that and ponting is an aussie does not justify his act. I disagree with Ponting on this issue. But what inzi did is even worst. No acting captain should write articles in the middle of a series. He should focus on his job and he should reprimand players inside the dressing room and if he has to say some thing publicly, just say it in a thoughtful manner in a press conference. You mentioned that by criticizing shoaib and sami, inzi was ale to produce results. I don’t agree at all. It made the matter worst and we all say the dirty politics going on in third test match. We won second match by gul’s spell. And if your logic is correct then what happened in the third match? Or may be, like you said, inzi should write such an article before every test match.

And I am so sick of Rameez Raja. For god sake….just do one job at a time. Leave PCB position if you want to be commentator but please stop embarrassing our cricket in such a humiliating way. If you don’t get paid by PCB, then leave that damn post. Be a professional.

And Some1 don’t think that Indian are great diplomats when it comes to cricket…if you want I can send you links of so many ex Indian cricketer’s and analysts articles after India lost the second test match. Every one was cursing dravid and tendulkar. I read at least 5 such articles in which tendulkar was ridiculed and dravid was considered to be “brave but stupid”. Yes we need 101 in diplomacy but don’t think Indians are a PHD in cricket diplomacy either.

A picture is worth a thousand words..

I think the image from the last day of the Multan Test showing the Pak team sitting on the field like school boys listening with their heads bowed to their captain(Inzy) giving them a dressing-down exactly explains what I am trying to say here.

How many of you , who work in offices, have experienced your boss doing this to you/your team. These things are not done to professionals...when they dont perform they are fired...but as long as they are in the team they are treated with professional respect. I mean you could guide your subordinates without having to yell at them.

Now imazine, the Indian/English/Australian or any other International team huddled together in silence and in public view like the Pak team was that day and their captain (Ganguly/Ponting etc.) giving them his piece of mind. Seems far-fetched doesn't it.

Re: Re: The amazing thing about Pakistani cricket team/officials

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by phoenixdesi: *

And Some1 don’t think that Indian are great diplomats when it comes to cricket…if you want I can send you links of so many ex Indian cricketer’s and analysts articles after India lost the second test match. Every one was cursing dravid and tendulkar. I read at least 5 such articles in which tendulkar was ridiculed and dravid was considered to be “brave but stupid”. Yes we need 101 in diplomacy but don’t think Indians are a PHD in cricket diplomacy either.
[/QUOTE]

I would know better than to say that. Indians are same (if not worse) than Pakis, when it comes to denouncing the team after the team loses.
But that is unrelated to what I said earlier on. I would elaborate a bit later. Right now I am in a bit of hurry....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Some1: *
A picture is worth a thousand words..

I think the image from the last day of the Multan Test showing the Pak team sitting on the field like school boys listening with their heads bowed to their captain(Inzy) giving them a dressing-down exactly explains what I am trying to say here.

How many of you , who work in offices, have experienced your boss doing this to you/your team. These things are not done to professionals...when they dont perform they are fired...but as long as they are in the team they are treated with professional respect. I mean you could guide your subordinates without having to yell at them.

Now imazine, the Indian/English/Australian or any other International team huddled together in silence and in public view like the Pak team was that day and their captain (Ganguly/Ponting etc.) giving them his piece of mind. Seems far-fetched doesn't it.
[/QUOTE]

Some1, I do not condone the charade that Inzi and co put on by sitting in the middle of the ground and insulting his players in front of the world. That is possibly the stupidest cricket related thing I have seen in my life. Unbelievable.

Phoenix, you are right to an extent. Perhaps his comments would have been just as effective had he said them in a press conference instead of writing a full-blown article to an Indian paper. I maintain that Inzi's public criticism of our bowlers was okay IMO but yes, he should have used a different platform.

Sambi,
There is soem difference between Ponting and Inzi's criticism.Obviously one being the medium and timing but other would be the content.What Ponting said was that If lee wants to get back into ODI team then he has to improve his economy rate. This criticism was accompanied with the action that needs to betaken and I will think this is a very constructive criticism. Where as Inzi just blasted them telling them that they are not World Class. Irrespective of Shoib's attitude and his non-prformance int his series we all know that he is definitly a worldclass bowler. if he is not then no fast bowler these days is worldclass.

Pheonix - you're right when you say that Indians are just as bad when it comes to criticising, and in fact it is needed otherwise players will become complacent, but the difference is that ex-players are seen as oldies with nothing better to do. Another difference is that the captain will rarely blame one player, he will say 'batting failed' or 'bowlers gave away too many runs'. It's counterproductive to rely on one player and make him hero one day, villain the next.

Good point FB- Shoaib is being made the scapegoat while in reality the batting failed as much as the bowling.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by karina: *
Pheonix - you're right when you say that Indians are just as bad when it comes to criticising, and in fact it is needed otherwise players will become complacent, but the difference is that ex-players are seen as oldies with nothing better to do. **Another difference is that the captain will rarely blame one player, he will say 'batting failed' or 'bowlers gave away too many runs'. It's counterproductive to rely on one player and make him hero one day, villain the next.
*

[/QUOTE]

Exactly what I wanted to reply to Phoenix (esp. the part in bold).

Just to be clear, in this thread I am not talking about the conduct of the general public, media or old ex-players whose opinions nobody gives two hoots about...

This thread is only about the behavior of the players, the captain, the cricket officials and to some extent outsiders/ex-players(e.g. Imran) whose opinion are considered important to the morale of the team.

(btw, Indian media is much worse than Pakistan's in how quickly they switch between bouquets and brickbats - but that would be a separate thread all-together)

Looks like Indians trying to save Shoaib's career. I think it will be better for Pakistan Cricket if we get rid of that brainless creature.