Talwar, you need to swtich off CNN. Throw away Guardian/NYTimes, spend couple of bucks, buy Taliban written by Ahmed Rashid. 
Like biased media, you see ISI, not Saudi Arabia, America, UAE, Turkey, which has been pointed out well by RF with source.
Kashmir? Hasn’t India lost Kashmir to Pakistan and China? 
Can anyone back me up on this:
Wasn’t picture of Ahmed Shah Masoad on Afghan currency highly rejected by the Afghans? I read news like that a while ago.
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Hmm. Except for the Taliban - mainly composed of Pakistanis, past and present Afghan regimes have had close relations with India. Iran likes India. India gets along with most nations. **
Apparently your not reading what I have written. The countries India SHARES a border with, last time I check it was Pakistan not India sharing a border with Afghanistan, Iran.
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Coming to Uzbekistan and Turkey, they supported Dostum who used to work with the Taliban also. He is just a mercenary warlord. Only India and Russia have supported the NA constantly. Iran gave aid to the Hazaras on and off.
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Blah Blah blah! Nice attempt to weasel your way out of this one! My assertion was that the NA was supported by the many countries that I have mentioned. Are you denying that Dostum, Hazaras were not part of the NA? If we go by your poor explanations, Massoud was trained by the ISI initially, dsoes that mean Pakistan supported the NA as well? Of course not.
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Read up buddy.
Mazar-e-Sharif is the HQ of Rashid Dostum, not Massoud. Massoud's are was Taloqan. Taliban bought if Rashid Dostum who sent his goons to kill off Massoud's 2 commanders.
Massoud was the only one who refused to be bought. Remember that Pakistan created the Taliban because their protege Gulbuddin Hekmatyar couldn't evict Massoud from Kabul.
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Thats BS. Taloqan is nothing but a small, dinky little town...nothing compared to Mazar, where the Soviets spent major $$ to build up the infustructure. I am not talking about the ethnic populations, instead I am referring to the military HQ.
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Read Sebastian Junger's work in National Geographic Adventure magazine. He clearly lays it out.
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Like I said-- a credible source...not an individual with heavy biases. i clearly asked for a news organization type source as I provided the BBC, observer etc., I can go to Pro-Pasthun website dig up an article describing the evil that Massoud embodied, but you wouldn't hold it as a credible source, will you?
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Both times you lost area in Kashmir. Would you consider that "walking the walk"? :D **
To stand up to bully, you must get a bloody nose. We walked the walk PERIOD.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Talwar: *
Hmm. Except for the Taliban - mainly composed of Pakistanis, past and present Afghan regimes have had close relations with India. Iran likes India. India gets along with most nations.
[/quote]
Shalwar, so now the Taliban are Pakistanis, LOL
[quote]
But all that is nothing in comparison to the manpower, arms and money given to the Taliban by the ISI. Hordes after Hordes of madrassa grads were sent from Multan to Bahawalpur, from Karachi to Attock all the way to the frontline.
[/quote]
Aik tu tum Ilooz ne ISI ko pattah nahee kya bana diya hai... Vajpyee dikaar bhi marta hai tu ISI ka kasoor hota hai...
[quote]
Both times you lost area in Kashmir. Would you consider that "walking the walk"? :D
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, according to your information... And we all know where your information comes from... Remember, no elections in Pakistan hehe
[quote]
Apparently your not reading what I have written. The countries India SHARES a border with, last time I check it was Pakistan not India sharing a border with Afghanistan, Iran.
[/quote]
Apparently you're not reading your own words :D Here's what you wrote:
"Every country that has known India in terms of sharing a history"
India shares a lot of history with the nations I mentioned :)
[quote]
Blah Blah blah! Nice attempt to weasel your way out of this one! My assertion was that the NA was supported by the many countries that I have mentioned. Are you denying that Dostum, Hazaras were not part of the NA?
[/quote]
Nah Nah Nah. Dostum was with the Taliban prior to 9-11 before he was betrayed by his own deputy Abdul Malik.
[quote]
Thats BS. Taloqan is nothing but a small, dinky little town...nothing compared to Mazar, where the Soviets spent major $$ to build up the infustructure. I am not talking about the ethnic populations, instead I am referring to the military HQ.
[/quote]
Weaseling out? Taloqan was the HQ of the Shura-i-Nazar led by Massoud. And Mazar-e-sharif was the HQ of the Jumbish-i-Milli led by Dostum. So, Massoud had no role in the defence of Mazar. Blaming Massoud for losing Mazar is illogical
[quote]
Like I said-- a credible source...not an individual with heavy biases. i clearly asked for a news organization type source as I provided the BBC, observer etc.,
[/quote]
And National Geographic is not credible for you? :D Stop digging yourself into a hole. Sebastian Junger is a world renowned journalist and adventure writer. He has no reason to be biased against Pakistan. He is credible unless you give a reason why not.
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Apparently you’re not reading your own words 
Here’s what you wrote:
“Every country that has known India in terms of sharing a history”
India shares a lot of history with the nations I mentioned 
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What did I say in the first message? Countries India shares a border with, second message was a reply to your sour grapes remark, where I said sharing a history with in the context of sharing a border. No wonder we have problems with you Indians, who love to play with words. Putting both statements together would mean: The countries that India shares a border AND History with-- now that the obvious point was lost on you, I’ll break it down further :hehe: The countries that India shares a border and history with were former colonies or under the influence of the British. By sharing the history with India, the other countries realized the true nature of Bharat and that is why they have had disagreements with India. Iran and Afghanistan were never British subject nor were they colonies. The history that Iran (rather Persia) shares with India is pre-british and thus their recollection of the true nature of Hindustan has been forgotten. The Afghans do share a history-- a history of occupying India and ravaging it time and time agian, so surely they see you as one of their formers slaves, who could hate their slaves? Do you need more clarifications? Remember, those who know you from close and within can judge you the best.
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Nah Nah Nah. Dostum was with the Taliban prior to 9-11 before he was betrayed by his own deputy Abdul Malik.
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Prove it! This is what you consider your saviors (the US) have to say about it all:
Source: http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/services/asylum/ric/documentation/AFG00001.htm
In 1992, the Northern Alliance was established in opposition of the communist government led by President Najibullah. The group consisted of General Abdul Rashid Dostum, former head of Najibullah’s militia forces; Ahmad Shah Mas’ud, head of the Jamiat-e Islami Party; and Hezb-e Wahdat, a pro-Shi’a party. The Northern Alliance was instrumental in bringing down Najibullah’s government in April 1992, but disintegrated shortly after its victory due to power struggles within the group. However, when the Taliban captured Kabul in September 1996, the three groups resurrected the Northern Alliance, in opposition once again. (Northern Alliance, 13 Dec.1999) *
Your lies exposed..
By early 1997, the Taliban had launched a large-scale offensive against the Northern Alliance, capturing several of the positions it held to the north of Kabul. To complicate matters further, General Abdul Malik, a key commander in the Alliance, staged a pro-Taliban revolt and forced General Dostum, a major Alliance leader, to flee the country and seek refuge in Turkey. However, as Taliban troops began infiltrating several northern areas and disarming anti-Taliban forces, General Malik restored his allegiance to the Northern Alliance and reclaimed Mazar-i-Sharif, driving the Taliban out of the area. (United Nations, 14 Nov. 1997)
*
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Weaseling out? Taloqan was the HQ of the Shura-i-Nazar led by Massoud. And Mazar-e-sharif was the HQ of the Jumbish-i-Milli led by Dostum. So, Massoud had no role in the defence of Mazar. Blaming Massoud for losing Mazar is illogical
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Ok when are you planning on joining reality? Mazar REGARDLESS of whose HQ it was, is/was/always will be the jewel of Northern Afghanistan. It’s like making Karnal more important than Delhi To lose Mazar took the wind out of the sails of the NA! Oh since your stuck on Taloqan, the haramkhor lost that too before 9-11. Read it and weep:
source: http://www.omaid.com/english_section/in_the_press/Masood_Interview_JDW_27Jun01.htm
Note: Although the webpage is from Omaid, the content is from Janes.
While he was able to prevent the Taliban overrunning Badakhshan province, the fall of Taloqan marked Massoud’s greatest setback since his loss of Kabul in September 1996. “There were tactical reasons for our defeat, such as [Taliban] use of armour, but the most important strategic reason was that I was unable to get the war moving in parts of the country in the enemy’s rear. When Taloqan fell I had only two helicopters left operating with considerable difficulty between Panjshir and the north. The Taliban were able to bring forces and munitions from everywhere and concentrate pressure against one point.”
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Now are you going to claim Khwaja Bahauddin as his next stronghold?? :hehe: The watan-faroosh lost not only Mazar nut also the much HYPED up capital, Taloquan. What excuses are left? We all can read the Khar’s sad excuses above.
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And National Geographic is not credible for you? Stop digging yourself into a hole. Sebastian Junger is a world renowned journalist and adventure writer. He has no reason to be biased against Pakistan. He is credible unless you give a reason why not. **
No it is not! Under the circumstances Junger discussed his OPINIONS not news. When was the last time you picked up the NG for the latest news in Afghanistan :hehe: Digging a hole? Please! Your on your last straws.
He is not credible because his views have not been corroberated by any other legitimate news agencies, that is, unless you have a real news organization-- one that is reputable agreeing with Junger. I can discuss my great experiences in Afghanistan and lay all the blame for it’s problems on India, is that credible? I don’t think so, unless you can PROVE me wrong.
Enough is enough, your a cunning and deceptive individual and I will not take anything for face vale unless you can come up with reputable sources backing your statements. My sources to date have included BBC, Observer, now the US govt, Janes Defence Weekly. Either put up the proof or don’t argue with me.
Talk, talk, talk, …
So RF,
So one is supposed to add up statements from different posts now. what next, Subtraction? 
"In 1992, the Northern Alliance was established "
Snip
"April 1992, but disintegrated shortly after its victory "
Snip
" September 1996, the three groups resurrected the Northern Alliance"
Snip
"By early 1997…General Abdul Malik, a key commander in the Alliance, staged a pro-Taliban revolt "
Snip
So, by your own posts → Northern Alliance was together only for a few months before 1997-98 But we all know that the ISI was fully supporting the Talibs with manpower, tanks and arms throughout. So who had the upper hand?
About Taloqan, so what? From your own source, they still lost Mazar once, didn’t they - despite all ISI support?
And remember that Mazar was Dostum’s land - not Massoud’s. Any loss or win in Mazar was entirely due to Dostum’s militia and the leadership of Malik or Dostum.
Oh Please.
National Geographic has been THE source of reports from lands afar. Junger posted his report, just like the Jane’s reporter or a CNN reporter. Your experience is worth diddly-squat because you don’t have 2 bestselling books or any reporting worth mention. Junger has
Personal attack? You wanted a reputable source and I gave one. Its just that you don’t like what they say. Suit yourslef.
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So RF,
So one is supposed to add up statements from different posts now. what next, Subtraction?
"In 1992, the Northern Alliance was established "
Snip
"April 1992, but disintegrated shortly after its victory "
Snip
" September 1996, the three groups resurrected the Northern Alliance"
Snip
"By early 1997…General Abdul Malik, a key commander in the Alliance, staged a pro-Taliban revolt "
Snip
**
First of all learn what a discussion is! Ofcourse all the statements are taken within context. I’ll expose your brilliant exit strategy once again: Care to argue with me on the fact that the countries that know India best throught sharing a history AND a border, has problems with the hegemon?
So, by your own posts → Northern Alliance was together only for a few months before 1997-98 But we all know that the ISI was fully supporting the Talibs with manpower, tanks and arms throughout. So who had the upper hand?
More apologies? I have already proven their sources of support, which were vast and diverse in terms of nations, yet they could not do squat!
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About Taloqan, so what? From your own source, they still lost Mazar once, didn’t they - despite all ISI support?
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Grasping the straws eh? If the Taliban lose Mazar once or twice it’s not a big deal because they were in the most hostile territory of Afghanistan. The point here is that the mighty NA was neutered countless times. From Taloquan to Mazar, Dostum and Massoud (AKA the Jester & the Paper tiger) were on the run with tails between their legs. When did they ever make the taliban do the same? (besides the instance world’s only superpower got involved). Could the NA even dream of doing the same in the Taliban heartland-- Qandhar?? Haha they were afraid to even approach Kabul…shows what kind of cowards you Indians like to support.
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And remember that Mazar was Dostum’s land - not Massoud’s. Any loss or win in Mazar was entirely due to Dostum’s militia and the leadership of Malik or Dostum.
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Who cares whose land it was? The N A, Dostum, Massoud, Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks all united to take on the Taliban, all lost-- not only their dignity but also their HQs. Please do come up with more EXCUSES.
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National Geographic has been THE source of reports from lands afar. Junger posted his report, just like the Jane’s reporter or a CNN reporter. Your experience is worth diddly-squat because you don’t have 2 bestselling books or any reporting worth mention. Junger has
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Its a sad excuse when you compare a Nature & Travel magazine to a political news network. Are you denying NG is a Travel & Nature magazine? A yes or no answer is necessary. You have avioded the issue again, if Junger is so credible, surely a legit News Media Organization would have picked that story up? Yet I see no other proof. I have never claimed my “experience”! I have the BBC, Observer, Janes, USDOJ BACKING MY CLAIMS! Your experience is worth zero in my book and your main source is a TRAVEL & NATURE magazine! Your excuses lay exposed.
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Personal attack? You wanted a reputable source and I gave one. Its just that you don’t like what they say. Suit yourslef. **
I have no made a personal attack, I have not attacked your intelligence or called you any slanderous names. You are a cunning and deceptive individual and let me explain why:
I am a man of truth, seeking it and accepting, while your outright lies have showed that you offer nothing to this dicussion but empty rhetoric and brazen attempts to mislead!
[thumb=A]afghanistan_political_contr1.JPG[/thumb]
A graphical representation.
Let's see the NA supported by India, Iran, Turkey, CARs, Russia, & France.
vs.
Talibans supported by Pakistan.
Who was the superior fighting force and who was the coward? The cowards that the NA are is shown pretty clearly!
Yes yes. Blame Massoud for Dostum’s loss just because they were allies? What next, blame Japan for Germany’s loss in Stalingrad in WWII? Get real
And I gave you sources to link Dostum to ALL other parties. You know that Dostum is free agent who has sold his ervices to one and all. So, if Turkey supporting Dostum = Turkey supporting NA, then it also means Turkey supported all the other groups who Dostum worked for, including the Taliban.
The fact of the matter is the Northern “Alliance” is basically, different groups fighting the Taliban on their own. And remember that only the Taliban had the support of a regular Army, namely Pakistan Army with tanks and heavy arty and Brigadier level support from the ISI.
India supported Massoud who did have some success. Below is a report from Jane’s Defence Weekly. Clearly talks of Massoud’s win. You said Jane’s was a reliabe source. So it says Massoud did win. Eat your heart out Your lies about Massoud are exposed! :biggthumb
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Yes yes. Blame Massoud for Dostum’s loss just because they were allies? What next, blame Japan for Germany’s loss in Stalingrad in WWII? Get real
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It is the United Front (AKA Northern Alliance) versus Taliban. Dostums loss is NA’s loss, and it is also Massoud’s loss. What a poor analogy you gave with the Japan, Germany scenario. First off they were loosely allied. Secondly they were fighting in DIFFERENT theatres! Are you telling me that NA was also fightining on 2 different CONTINENTS!?! Maybe you should look up history before making comparisons.
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And I gave you sources to link Dostum to ALL other parties. You know that Dostum is free agent who has sold his ervices to one and all. So, if Turkey supporting Dostum = Turkey supporting NA, then it also means Turkey supported all the other groups who Dostum worked for, including the Taliban.
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Tuekey’s support for Dostum was only anti-Taliban specifically! They supported Dostum during his anti-Taliban period. From 1990-2001 period, Dostum was mucch longer allied with the NA or opposing the Taliban, thus for you to link him to the taliban is once again deceiving.
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The fact of the matter is the Northern “Alliance” is basically, different groups fighting the Taliban on their own. And remember that only the Taliban had the support of a regular Army, namely Pakistan Army with tanks and heavy arty and Brigadier level support from the ISI.
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I know their different groups, but allied under an anti-Taliban banner. Don’t cry about Pakistani support when it had already been established that many many countries supported the NA’s factions, yet their sad record shows their cowardly performance.
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India supported Massoud who did have some success. Below is a report from Jane’s Defence Weekly. Clearly talks of Massoud’s win. You said Jane’s was a reliabe source. So it says Massoud did win. Eat your heart out Your lies about Massoud are exposed! :biggthumb
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What lies? Massoud the Jackel takes advantage of a nascent Taliban organization. Do you know when the Taliban was created? If Massoud captures Kabul temprarily isn’t a big deal espicially when Kabul at the point was dari speaking. What happens after the Taliban became a real force? total annihilation of Massoud and the rest. As the Janes source mentions, the Taliban were still gaining key Pashtun alliances, what happened after they became unified? NA could NOT stand a chance againt the Taliban and my map proves it. Hell, the Talibs took the battle in Tajik, Uzbek areas could the NA even DARE to enter Pashtun areas?? I think not!