Islam is a universal deen. Not for a specific nation or race.
But Islam is Islam. A complete way of life. It is complete itself.
There are certain rules of every religion to become a part of it.
Islam has its own. And if one doesnot follow it, he or she doesn't belong to Islam. This is not me or you or anyone saying. Its in Quran and hadith. And its every muslims duty to not to let others spoil our deen.
There are some people who are standing outside the boundry wall of Islam and claiming that we are inside the wall.
The boundry wall is visible.
The people inside and outside of it seeing it.
They can see where Qadianiz stand.
This Deen Islam cannot be hijacked inshallah.
Still don't see the signs of Mehdi and Mirza's achievments yet.
And sorry Zaki....I can't read those books to find out Mirza's ahsaanaat on Ummah. If you can summerize them in points here, I would appreciate that. I want to see the revolution that Mirza brought to the Islam and the humanity.
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Still don't see the signs of Mehdi and Mirza's achievments yet.And sorry Zaki....I can't read those books to find out Mirza's ahsaanaat on Ummah. If you can summerize them in points here, I would appreciate that. I want to see the revolution that Mirza brought to the Islam and the humanity.
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So you don't want to read the books and still want to see the achievements.. i think you want "yade baizaa" and "staff of Moses" too??
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*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
Islam is a universal deen. Not for a specific nation or race.
But Islam is Islam. A complete way of life. It is complete itself.
There are certain rules of every religion to become a part of it.
Islam has its own. And if one doesnot follow it, he or she doesn't belong to Islam. This is not me or you or anyone saying. Its in Quran and hadith. And its every muslims duty to not to let others spoil our deen.
There are some people who are standing outside the boundry wall of Islam and claiming that we are inside the wall.
The boundry wall is visible.
The people inside and outside of it seeing it.
They can see where Qadianiz stand.
This Deen Islam cannot be hijacked inshallah.
Still don't see the signs of Mehdi and Mirza's achievments yet.
And sorry Zaki....I can't read those books to find out Mirza's ahsaanaat on Ummah. If you can summerize them in points here, I would appreciate that. I want to see the revolution that Mirza brought to the Islam and the humanity.
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This guy is IGNORANT! He thinks by terrorizing others he gets brownie points from allah talah.
Nobody cares abour your rules & your laws. They R product of our ulemas & jurists. I mean the prophet did not even leave behind a compiled quran, forget his sunnah and this guy speaks about RULES & LAWS.
Whose rules & who laws?
Yours and your ancient ulems.
MOREOVER- Islam was revealed for the Arabs in "their language so they could understand" and the verse from HQ "You are the best of nations..." refers to arabs only and not to their bootlickers like Smoth-guy!
Lawrence of Arbia knew Arabic well. Does it make any difference.
Bring some logic in your answer. A person's Arabic laungage skills doesnot make him Mehdi. His work, his character speaks for him.
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*Originally posted by Destino: *
^
So you don't want to read the books and still want to see the achievements.. i think you want "yade baizaa" and "staff of Moses" too??
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Looks like this thread will also go down the drain.
OK, now just write 7 signs of Mehdi and then show Mira fullfilling them.
I think its easy now for you guys. Yaar....he was the MEHDI......all the signs and tasks should match. So why you hesitate!!
This is my question to you guys. Choose your number....1 sign, 2,3,4 or whatever. Whichever you feel easy with. But come to the point and show the stuff.
God is our witness, He Who knows the innermost secrets of our hearts, that I am ready to accept the penalty of death, should any one be able to point to the slightest weakness in the teachings of the Holy Quran, it may be as slight as a minute fraction of a particle. Or should any one be able to point to an equally slight virtue of a book to which he subscribes, a virtue contrary to the teachings of the Quran on the same point, yet superior to it.
(Barahin-i-Ahmadiyya III, pg. 268 foot note 2)
The title Khatam al-Nabiyyin used for the Holy Prophet (on whom be peace and blessings of God) requires - the term in its own right requires - that the Book revealed to the Holy Prophet (on whom be peace and blessings) should be Khatam al-Kutub, it should be a book perfect in all dimensions. The Quran is full of such perfection.
(Malfoozat vol. 3, pg. 36)
Muslim scholars todate believe in the "concept of Abrogation".. Promised Massiah (as) has proven that Quran is perfect.. and there is no "abrogation" in it..
Mr. Smoothguy, i think you need to do some background study on the concept of "tanseekh" or abrogation.. i am sure you will be of the view that Quran has some or many verses which have been cancelled..
I can write hundreds of statements like above. Hunderds of scholars have written excellent books on Quran and hadith, the greatness of Allah, the seerat-un-nabi :saw: and other religious things. Talk about the ‘achievments as Mehdi’. How many times I have to ask you to list from Quran and hadith, the signs of Mehdi and then compare and prove with Mirza’s great work. Thanks a gizzilion if you understand this time.
GIve an example of tanseekh in current Quran, which as per Ulema has been abrogated.
The biggest JOKE of the century.....
**The title Khatam al-Nabiyyin used for the Holy Prophet (on whom be peace and blessings of God) requires - the term in its own right requires - that the Book revealed to the Holy Prophet (on whom be peace and blessings) should be Khatam al-Kutub, it should be a book perfect in all dimensions. The Quran is full of such perfection.
(Malfoozat vol. 3, pg. 36)
**
AND THEN THE SAME GUY WRITES...
"I swear upon God in whose hands is my life, He has sent me, He only has named me prophet and He only has sent me as Promised Messiah." (Tatumma Haqeeqatul Wahi, Roohani Khazain vol.22 p.503)
"True God is that God who has sent His Prophet in Qadian." (Dafa alBala p.11, Roohani Khazain vol.18 p.231)
on the reference from Quran and Sunnah.. The revival and reform means to return islamic ideology back to its original form. Quran is the proof that Islam is from God,..And sadly mainstream muslims of today believe that Quran is (naoozobillah) not perfect..
ur clock is stuck on this point.......there are lots of other sects which are doing the same thing for last two centuries.
Answer my Question. Achievements as Mehdi...OK. Could you plz the list of signs and tasks of Mehdi as per Quran and hadith (which Ahmediz recognize and believe in). Please if you start loose talk like you're doing in the other thread then it will go nowhere.
What we know from Mirza's life and the jamat's work afterwards is no where near to what Mehdi will be doing near Qiyamaah. There will be a great task for him.
We do not need to list the achievements of our beloved Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) here, as we all know his greatness and how he changed our lives forever... Look at all the Muslims in the world, and no this does not include the very small number of Ahmedis, and you will get the picture buddy. The glory of Islam is obvious today. We have Muslims even in western countries, enjoying such admirable positions in all walks of life. We owe it all to our Prophet (PBUH), and his way of life.
Kher, we must tolerate each others views, nothing I say will convince an ahmedi that he was wrong, and nothing he says will convince me that I am wrong, so we should do ourselves a favor, keep a lid on these ahmedi vs muslim threads and instead promote unity and harmony amongst each other as we are Pakistanis.
Mr. Smooth guy, you asked for achievements.. i have just started to mention them.. and the first one i mentioned was that Promised Massiah refuted and proved that there is no ABROGATION in Quran..
and you can't find this as an achievement.. go ask a mullah and he will convince you that Quran is not perfect..
I know no Mullah or an ordinary Muslim (Sunni) who thinks that Quran has tehreef in it. Anway.......so this is one..that MGA said that Quran is complete. Well.
34 Replies...and only one achievement. Its not a progress.
Why do all mainstream muslim sects believe that Quran has flaws? You might think that its not a fact.. but believe me, theory of Abrogation is a FACT...
There are many other achievements.. i have just started on one of them.. Is defending Quran from all sorts of allegations an "achievement"?
Told you I have not seen any Sunni saying this. But I don’t wanna argue on this one. I take it as a FACT. Alhamdollillah I don’t believe that Quran has any abrogation since Quran itself says that Allah revealed it and he will protect it. That’s why we do not see any difference in Quranic copies around the world. But the problem is that I am not Ahmedi either nor my relatives or friends are. Same for majority of Muslims.
Khair…the next one please!!!
We need to see the achievements of this prophet of Allah. Its gotta be something big yaar. You know what I mean. Check out the very short 23 years of Nabuwat of beloved Prophet Mohammed :saw: that is called achievements. That was the biggest revolution mankind has ever witnessed. Even non-muslims admit that within a short period no other man on the face of earth has achieved this many goals, let alone the great influnce on the daily lives of Billions of people in the world. This is the aijaaz-e-nabuwat of Prophet Mohammed :saw:
Please also list the goals/tasks of Mehdi which Ahmediz recognize from Hadiths. Thanx.
Who is comparing Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian with the Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him). None can't be compared to the greatest of the prophets.
The Promised Messiah have himself said that whatever he is, Its becase of the Holy Prophet Muhammad(Peace be upon him). All the achievements by all the prophets of the world combined can't be compared to the achievements of one prophet, our beloved Holy Prophet (peace be upon him).
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*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
Mr. Smooth_Guy
Who is comparing Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian with the Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him). None can't be compared to the greatest of the prophets.
The Promised Messiah have himself said that whatever he is, Its becase of the Holy Prophet Muhammad(Peace be upon him). All the achievements by all the prophets of the world combined can't be compared to the achievements of one prophet, our beloved Holy Prophet (peace be upon him).
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You people do. whenever Mirza is caught with his own words, you people defend his contradictory writings with ahadeeths. How dare a Muslim can dig into ahadith to find Nauzobillah mistakes. Only Ahmediz can do this.
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*Originally posted by Paaga| |nsaan: *
Mr. Smoothguy
I'm not the only person on this forum who will request you to post THUMBNAILS of the images rather than flooding the forum with large pictures. If you however want to post large pictures, it doesn't take long to make them neater, make their size and resolution appropriate. Bandwidth costs money.
I said, "It is useless to quarrel over every single quote. I'd suggest we talk about the very philosophy of this apparent contradiction in Mirza Sahebs' writings." I said that because I knew you had dug up an 'ilm ka khazana' by getting access to these quotes on the website of the Lahore group, and will not spare us of the flood. Once you've posted a quote, I've taken your point. Kindly come to the original discussion.
All Ahmedis have read all the writings of Mirza Saheb, and so have most muslims who are interested in this debate. Just everybody on here knows mirza saheb had denied prophethood earlier. Once you posted a single quote, your point was taken. Do you think by flooding the forums with highly unsophisticatedly-scanned pictures scare Ahmedis or make your point stronger? The answer is no!
It doesn't matter if Mirza Saheb has denied his prophethood once, or 50 times. It has the same effect. The question here is, can a prophet misunderstand his position? That is the original point of discussion.
I am not 'dragging the discussion' to take it to whether prophets can make mistakes of ijtihaad. That is automatically the REAL discussion as soon as you point out Mirza Saheb denying his prophethood. It is you who is trying to drag it out from the real point, to flooding the thread with pictures that also prove the poor asthetics that you and the lahore group possess.
-== ** The Answer to Your Challenge ** ==--
You had made a claim:
And you have challenged me to bring any example of such an incident.
Even if i do bring an example, I know you are not going to accept it for one reason or another, but just for the sake of some god-fearing silent readers of the topic, I am giving you an example:
Prophet Mohammad first said: "Don't give superiority to any of Allah's prophets." (Bokhari, 4.26 & 9.52)
However gradually he changes his stance: "On the basis of six qualities, I have been given preference over all the other prophets." (Muslim, Babul faza'il)
How do you explain this by any logic other than the theory of gradual revealment?
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