Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
I'd argue Dien Bien is the most significant battle of the 20th century. The 6 day war and Israels 1948 war are spun as wars between david and goliath but the reality is quite different.
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
I'd argue Dien Bien is the most significant battle of the 20th century. The 6 day war and Israels 1948 war are spun as wars between david and goliath but the reality is quite different.
How is Dein Bein Phu the most significant battle of 20th Century?
It was 10,000 French soldiers trapped on all sides by 100,000 Vietnamese....
The most significant battle of the 20th Century was the Battle of Stalingrad during World War II.
As for the 6th Day War. Israel was outnumbered on all sides. But Israel did have a powerful Army but the scale on which the Arabs lost the war was shocking.
Arab incompetence resulted in the disastrous defeat rather than Israeli Competence.
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
Please disprove that an american ship was repeatedly attacked for several hours by the Israelis from air and sea...
^^ this has already been disproved
why are you clutching on straws to find something against Israel?
Do you really give a damn about these American sailors on this ship?
I bet every single American solider that has died in Iraq, you cheered his death so how is it genuine your sympathy towards American sailors on this ship when its clearly done to malign Israel
no one is buying it
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
^^ Here you go. These reports prove that the attack was a mistake and it was not deliberate.
CIA Report
http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/CIAreports.pdf
Clark Clifford Report
http://www.thelibertyincident.com/clifford.html
US Joint Chief of Staff Report
http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/JCSreport.pdf
NSA Report
http://www.nsa.gov/liberty/
US Senate Report
http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/SenateInvestigation.pdf
US Naval Report
http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/CourtOfInquiry.pdf
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
How is Dein Bein Phu the most significant battle of 20th Century?
It was 10,000 French soldiers trapped on all sides by 100,000 Vietnamese....
The most significant battle of the 20th Century was the Battle of Stalingrad during World War II.
As for the 6th Day War. Israel was outnumbered on all sides. But Israel did have a powerful Army but the scale on which the Arabs lost the war was shocking.
Arab incompetence resulted in the disastrous defeat rather than Israeli Competence.
The reason why Dien Nein Phu is considered so significant is because it marked the first time in about a hundred years that a minor "asiatic power" decisively defeated a major western one (the Russo Japanese war was a victory too but it was a defeat not a rout)). For that reason it is considered a turning point in world history. Stalingrad by comparison was a huge battle which marked the Nazis shifting from an offensive to a defensive.
I take your point about the scale of Arab defeat, however declassified reports have shown that the Israelis were expecting to end the war in 7-10 days. The reasoning was simple, most of the Arab states had fairly recently switched from the British to the Russian model. The egyptians were occupied with their own Vietnam in yemen and had an incompetent commander in charge of their forces. The only Arab power which could put up a fight was the Arab legion but they lost their military dominance in the late 1950's
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
^^ finally a good response....
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
^^ But Arab Legion couldn't do jack in 1948 if you mean it was in its prime pre-1950s.
As for Egypt and other arab powers, the sheer shock of the attack psychologically immobilized all the egyptians just like in 1965, the indians would be stumped and not even fire on the shining starfighters [not a perfect comparison but still..].
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
^^ Arabs don't know to fight. They thought just because they are muslim and the enemy is a Jew that they will win.
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
[quote="“shriek11, post:135, topic:163193"”]
^^ But Arab Legion couldn’t do jack in 1948 if you mean it was in its prime pre-1950s…
[/quote]
On the contrary the legion was out numbered in it’s fights and was still the only Arab country to retain significant territory. The Israelis as in every battle fought the Arabs piecemeal allowing the Israelis to almost always have a numerical superiority (except in 1973, which forced the Americans to intervene on a massive scale). The situation was so bad in 1948 for the Egyptians that if it wasn’t for a British warning..the Israelis were on the verge of taking the sinai.
[quote="“shriek11, post:135, topic:163193"”]
As for Egypt and other arab powers, the sheer shock of the attack psychologically immobilized all the egyptians just like in 1965, the indians would be stumped and not even fire on the shining starfighters [not a perfect comparison but still..].
[/quote]
It’s not a fair comparison because while Pakistan claimed aerial superiority over India in 1965 it did not dominate the skies as well as the Israelis. Similarly, Pakistans land forces were taken by surprise in lahore due to poor planning and poor co ordination.
I disagree, the Arabs at that time were secularists, they may have believed that by sheer weight of numbers they could wipe the Israelis out and in essence became victims of their own propaganda. However a belief in a peoples superiority doesn’t mean you lose wars, it’s only when that belief is at total odds with reality that things go pear shaped.
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
I disagree, the Arabs at that time were secularists, they may have believed that by sheer weight of numbers they could wipe the Israelis out and in essence became victims of their own propaganda. However a belief in a peoples superiority doesn't mean you lose wars, it's only when that belief is at total odds with reality that things go pear shaped.
I disagree. Arabs in 1948 were run by countries that were secularists but their war against Israel was primarily based on nationalism and racism.
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
You are talking 1948 right? Egypt and Jordan didn’t lose the vital areas of Jerusalem and West Bank etc. until 1967. I think the Arab Legion is over rated in some sense as well because it [Jordan] was british trained unlike the future egyptian and syrian army.
As for 1965, you cannot say that army was surprised at lahore and then blame it on PAF. I remember reading on AVM MG Tawab [could’ve been the first bengali chief of PAF if not for 1971?] and his recce mission over the border that found out that Indians were moving troops to key positions over the border. I think it was the failure of the army and ISI which was too busy keeping tabs on politicians instead of focusing on India. Isreal’s success in the war had a lot to do with its excellent intelligence service like timing the assault on Egypt when EAF was on the ground between 7 and 8 am. They even came close to killing the Jordanian king had he been in his office that fateful day in 1967!!
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
^^ Arabs don't know to fight. They thought just because they are muslim and the enemy is a Jew that they will win.
Arabs don't know how to fight...hmm...remember yarmuk and qadisiya...two of the most decisive battles fought in history and that too against great odds...
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
So you believe everything that comes out CIA and the rest of the gov’t agencies…plus none of these links disprove that Israelis deliberately and repeatedly attacked an american ship…
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
which is different from using the Muslim argument as you stated earlier..being racist and nationalistic doesn’t mean you lose wars. Ever heard of the white mans burden?
Perhaps it was overrrated, but speaking specifically of 1948 as I said the only arab force to put up resistance to the Israelis was the legion.
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
^^ After which Hezbollah said it was a mistake to start this war. International UN force has been deployed in Southern Lebanon and Hezbollah won't start another conflict with Israel due to what awaits Lebanon.
Yes it was their mistake they invoked the wrath of the righteous Israeli army by capturing 2 of their soldiers to be used as bargaining chips in hope of getting back the 1000s of lebanese captured by the Israelis.
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
Arabs don't know how to fight...hmm...remember yarmuk and qadisiya...two of the most decisive battles fought in history and that too against great odds...
That is irrelevent to modern warfare now..
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
stalingrad was largely a propoganda victory , it was hardly the turning point of the war. Wehrmacht's back was not broken till the middle of 1944
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
That is irrelevent to modern warfare now..
exactly and the sahaba and Tabaeen who fought these battles cannot be compared with arabs of today either
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
stalingrad was largely a propoganda victory , it was hardly the turning point of the war. Wehrmacht's back was not broken till the middle of 1944
It was a turning point as the Germans were on the defensive after that as it was time for the Soviets to go on offense. Though, I read that the German withdrawal plan [piece-by-piece so one army provided cover while another withdrew] does mean that the army wasn't completely broken. The battle itself was more like the war of attrition that Egypt had with Israel after 1973 than anything else. It was a good strategy that germans could not afford.
Re: The 6 Day War: Greatest miltary victory?
^^ why india?
it doenst share any geographical border with Iran
Err!! I know that.
Iran is much closer to India than it is to Pakistan (hint: not geographically)