Re: thank you shaukat aziz
achha majak kartay hayn aap
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
as a group, the biggest owners of shares in kse are the people of pakistan. therefore the biggest beneficiaries from rising stock market are the people of pak. there is also an indirect benefit to the govt from rise in stock market. stock markets rise when corporate profits are going up which means tax revenue is going up as well.
very informative, now can you elaborate on % of Pakistanis benefitted from the surge, also can you elaborate on how many Pakistani lost their money in the stock market crash/scandal not too long ago?
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
so you’re saying there’s abundant supply of wheat in the “open market” ?
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
so you're saying there's abundant supply of wheat in the "open market" ?
You are absolutely right, that is what I know. Only problem is that .. in open market a 20 KG bag is Rs 440 or slightly above ... but in utility store it is I think less than Rs 350 (or less). So ... for many, this Rs 100 per 20 Kg bag means misery (that is what I know).
What have you thought? People who could afford (or willing to pay higher price) are also short of flour or are making que in front of utility store for 20 Kg flour bag ... or that restaurants that are selling bread are no more selling bread?
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
So if the only problem according to you is that prices have gone up and that too, just slightly then why all this hue & cry all around the country?
And just how many people do you really think are able to afford this price hike? Obviously not too many cuz then again why newspapers are plastered with news about people standing in long lines in hope of being able to buy ataa at subsidized price? You claim about pay raise in the past 8 yrs but conveniently forgot to adjust for the inflation & price hike of other daily use commodities, supplies & utilities including food items, clothing, medicines, patrol/gas, electricity etc or do you think people in Pakistan live in some kind of vacuum where they just eat ataa, cover their bodies with leafs & go to sleep under a cardboard box on a sidewalk ?
Its really pathetic how people would go to shameful extents to deny ground realities & failures of the government just cuz they worship an individual as God.
Your earlier post is simply disgusting and reeks of hypocrisy. Those hepless poor masses are suffering due to government's apathy, systematic corruption & inefficiency and all you've to say is that those people are not willing to pay an extra ruppee or two and hence should start eating rice. Good job my friend !
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
If you do not read my post and claim the way you did than I can only say that … … 
… I better should not 
…
Anyhow … I have mentioned in many of my post that during last 8 years, wages have gone up by at least 350 percent and prices have gone up by 60 percent. That means:
Anyone earning Rs 2000 in 1999 is earning at least Rs 7000 today.
On other hand, basket of goods that use to cost Rs 2000 in 1999 is now costing Rs 3200.
That means average Pakistanis on most jobs are twice better off today in real terms than what they were in 1999.
As for queing for atta to save Rs 100 … well, I know that for you it may not matter that much, but for those at low wages … and for whom government has opened up utility stores, who might have 8 to 10 people in household, using 60 to 80 Kg of flour a month (as on average, one Kg of atta may feed 4 people in one day), ceratainly saving Rs 300 to Rs 400 a month on Atta is good saving … and for that they are willing to que (4 times a month if they have to).
Ideally it should not be long queue but unfortunately atta prices in open market has gone up too high, else it should be nominal difference in price between open market and utility stores. Reason is that, atta in world market has gone up too high … around Rs 30 a Kg (I believe that 20 Kg bag going for Rs 550 to Rs 600 in Afghanistan … against Rs 440 to Rs 460 in Pakistan … against government want utility store to sell at less than Rs 350).
For detail inflaton figures and how inflation is calculated in Pakistan: Please find my other post. ‘Risk to economy growing … State Bank’ … Here is link for your convenience:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=5590657&postcount=26
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
clearly, some people have a hard time comprehending english which is understandable given english is not our maadri zubaan and the poor state of our matric system education.
as a group, the biggest owners of shares in kse are the people of pakistan. therefore the biggest beneficiaries from rising stock market are the people of pak. there is also an indirect benefit to the govt from rise in stock market. stock markets rise when corporate profits are going up which means tax revenue is going up as well.
the next govt that comes to power can easily sell shares in pakistani companies and use the proceeds to provide food subsidies if it so desires. moreover given that pakistanis are not rich enough to fully buy shares owned by the govt, govt has no choice but to sell shares to foreigners who will only put money in pak when there is political stability. politicians by acting as jackasses are simply damaging the economy of pak.
No one doubts the economy grew... Question is the nature of that growth.. The govt may have money to spend, but how has that helped the poor of the country? When delievery of basic services is so flawed, what benefit does pumping funding have?
As for political stability, your putting the cart before the horse here... Political stability will only come if the Military is back in the baracks and there are free and fair elections...
The Politicians are fighting for the principles that this country was founded on... This country was meant to be ruled by her people, not by some corrupt military regime.
If Musharaf choose to stop being a jackass, allow the Cheif Justice to resume his rightful role, stops attacking civil society, and allows fair and free elections, then political stability will come... If not, Pakistan will continue to be unstable.
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
^^ one answer, it takes time. Can you wait?
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
^^ one answer, it takes time. Can you wait?
Are you saying 60 years isn't enough time? How much more time? If this continues we may not have the country in next few years.
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
^^ I was refering to Mushi, your designated leader has magic to turn the tables in 8 years?
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
Lambi chorney meiN aap saani nahiN rakhtey
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
Thanks to President Musharaf’s great leadership and the excellent people he had appointed such as the great Shaukat Aziz, Pakistan has seen Unprecedented Growth in the past 8 years. Out of the remaining 52 years, the Ayub Khan years was also a great period. God Bless the Pakistani Army leaders for showing the way on how to improve the economy. Long may it continue. :k:
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
indeed, thanks to presidant musharraf and his great leadership.
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
An intresting read from Khaleej Times drawing comparision between Indian leaders and Shuakat/ Musharraf from an Indian’s view point…
Junta versus Janata
BY SHEKHAR GUPTA (India Interest)
9 January 2008
PAKISTANIS surely coin more colourful political slogan than us. They are also less subtle. So, the next time you see visuals of a PPP protest rally on your TV screens following Benazir’s assassination, strain your ears a bit to catch a most telling slogan: Amreeka ne kutta paala, vardi waala, vardi waala.
It would lose much flavour in transliteration, but the meaning would not be lost on even a non-Hindi speaker. Now when was the last time you had the army called a dog, and that too an American poodle, on Pakistan’s streets? And this is a Pakistan under an almighty (lately, former) general who has the power to declare and suspend emergency in televised speeches, the power to make 36 (or thereabouts) amendments in his “constitution” at a Press conference, and whose ability to take the biggest decisions on the spot is the envy, often, of the Indian politician, and has been a cause for admiration among India’s chattering classes.
How many times, since he came on his first visit for the Agra summit, have we heard fellow Indians, including serious, knowledgeable people, talk of him with a sense of awe? See, how confident he looks, how well he speaks, the swagger, so impressive, knows his mind, is so fit and energetic, so much in control, so macho, can-do and so on. The sub-text was, view this is total contrast with our own political class: overweight, badly dressed, clumsy, evasive in their answers, indecisive, inarticulate and, horror of horrors, not even able to speak any English.
And then came Shaukat Aziz, on secondment from Citibank. So smart, articulate, in his smartly cut suits, blah, blah and blah. And what kind of people did we have holding the same job in India? Gowda, who slept in Parliament. Vajpayee, who never seems to answer any question. Gujral who only uttered diplomatic platitudes that meant nothing. And Narasimha Rao, who mostly pretended he had not even heard the question.
Now let me tell you a few stories. Not necessarily connected either by timing or context, but yielding an interesting conclusion, nevertheless.
One of the great untold stories of the Agra summit is how challenging it was for both Vajpayee and Musharraf to deal with each other. One thought he had the answer even before a question had been asked. The other would think for ever, and often tire out his interlocutor. Apparently at one of the mid-day review sessions Musharraf shared his exasperation with his aides. He said something like, I know you guys told me he takes time responding to anything, but how do I deal with somebody who takes so long and then says nothing? A bit like John McEnroe tossing his racket in exasperation while playing Ramesh Krishnan and screaming: How do I play this guy? He serves at five miles per hour!
One of his aides tried to suggest that Vajpayee takes so long because he is processing Musharraf’s question in his wise, old head. Musharraf was still irritated and somebody senior in his inner council said, with humour laced with disdain: to unka processor Pentium nahin, 286 hoga (then his processor must be a 286, not a Pentium).
Now listen to the story from the other end. What exasperated Vajpayee most of all was Musharraf’s cocky “decisiveness”. “You are the prime minister, I am the president, if we agree on something, let’s sign,” he would say, while at the same time making changes on the draft of a likely agreement and asking Vajpayee to okay it. He simply wouldn’t buy Vajpayee’s argument that he had a cabinet to go back to. “Par aap prime minister hain. Aap faisla keejiye (but you are the prime minister, you decide),” Musharraf would say. So when Vajpayee briefed his aides and fellow members of the Cabinet Committee on Security (who, barring George Fernandes, were in Agra), he said about his counterpart pretty much the opposite of what he said of him: “He is in such a hurry. Kuchch sochne ko taiyyar nahin hain. Sub kuch faisala abhi chahte hain, kaise samjhaoon bhai.” Or words to that effect.
In the main lounge of the Congress Centre at Davos, Switzerland, where all kinds from heads of state to global corporate leaders to rock stars to ordinary journalists congregate and rub shoulders during the World Economic Forum January meeting, I found my old friend, Pakistani journalist, part-time politician, now a full-time exile, Boston University professor and also an Indian Express columnist, Husain Haqqani. As we exchanged gossip, Tariq Aziz walked past, accompanied by a couple of minders, perfectly cut suit, pompous, smug smile and all. Just that morning he had lectured many of us senior editors over breakfast, laying down the law for India: nothing would move, the gas pipeline, even the permission to Indian private airlines to fly to Pakistan unless the “core” issue was addressed. Again there was some admiration for his confidence and clarity even among the Indian contingent as he was “so unlike our bumbling politicians”.
Haqqani’s eyes were now lit up with mischief. He pointed his finger directly at Aziz and said: “You know what they say, Davos is the Disneyland of the mind. If that be so, there goes its Mickey Mouse.”
How have the relative fortunes of the two competing kinds of leaderships and nations under their charge evolved over these seven years?** Musharraf now looks bumbling and unconvincing, an international joke, a pitiable, forlorn figure, hated by his countrymen, distrusted by the world and mentioned dismissively even by Barack Obama. Shaukat Aziz has disappeared from the scene, even losing out to an ordinary mortal - coincidentally from India - for the top job in his alma mater, Citi. Their country is a mess, their own army, for the first time, is seeing its credibility, power, its pre-eminent position in Pakistan’s society and power structure questioned. Its political class is decimated, its institutions fatally wounded. How do people as proud as the Pakistanis feel when their dictator offers to salvage his credibility by summoning the Scotland Yard to investigate the assassination of their most prominent political leader? Nobody believes their election commission’s intentions, motives or judgment in postponing their election.**
Vajpayee, on the other hand, sits at home, having lost power in an election, not in the pink of health, but satisfied at the way his country is moving. His successor, from the opposite side of the political fence, even comes to wish him on his birthday. His country has meanwhile had many more state elections and another general election within a year or so will give his successors in his own party another crack at power. Now, think, who finally won. The indecisive, inarticulate, ineffective slob who did not seem to have an answer to anything, or the macho, confident, smart, decisive, modern smartie who seemed to have an answer to everything?
There are many interesting, and important conclusions to be drawn from this complex argument. But the most significant is this: a modern nation needs democracy and so it needs its politicians, however clumsy, corrupt, effete and power-crazed they may be. Because a military dictator can also be all of these things. The difference is, the political leader draws his power from the democratic process, so he has a stake in preserving that system, howsoever cynical he may be.
The general draws his power by throttling the democratic system and its institutions and you can see the results of that in Pakistan. So, in a democracy,** howsoever powerful a Lalu or Mayawati, they have to shut up and listen when the Supreme Court speaks. The election commission can publicly upbraid both Sonia Gandhi and Narendra Modi. We, the media, can question and curse who we want. It happens because the political class has the biggest stake in the democratic process, howsoever much it may wish to manipulate it. In contrast, a military dictator owes his power to the absence of institutions, of checks and balances. That is exactly what Musharraf has done to his judiciary, the election commission and even the media. That is why he has to summon the Scotland Yard to investigate Benazir’s assassination.**
Shekhar Gupta is the Editor-in-Chief of Indian Express daily
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
Well, I found out what is real price difference that is causing this problem.
In open market a week ago … price of Atta was over Rs 500 … at places it was Rs 550 per 20 Kg. Now it has come down to around Rs 480 per 20 Kg. Price of Atta in Afghanistan, India and Iran is much higher than Pakistan open market … and in central Asian republics it is higher still.
In utility store, Atta is getting sold at government fixed price of Rs 310 per 20 Kg. So, the difference between price of utility store and open market is huge … something like Rs 170 to Rs 200 per 20 Kg (or you can say .. around Rs 10 per Kg). Thus, you can say that government is subsidising the poor … but it seems that at this price difference, many have become poor .. I mean .. going to utility stores to buy atta.
So, utility store that use to sell 350 bags of atta a day … are getting supplied over 450 bags a day … still, utility stores are unable to fulfil the demand (and that is obvious) … hence all this hue and cry.
People in Pakistan do not understand that and think that price shooting in one item means .. high inflation but that is untrue.
For instance … two years ago there was world surge in sugar prices and sugar price in Pakistan went sky high … something like Rs 40 per Kg … and thus there was hue and cry that inflation has gone up. Now after two years … sugar is in plenty and prices are Rs 26.50 … but it might even come down to Rs 22 … even though Rs 22 is lower than cost price for mills producing sugar. But now these propagandist are not talking about sugar price that is so low.
If inflation was claimed high 2 years ago because sugar price gone up … than why these people are not saying that since price of sugar has come down … inflation has gone negative?
Similarly once in past tomato price gone up because crop crash … and people were shouting about inflation but why not today?
Same is true about atta. At present world price is gone too high and Pakistan is suffering too … but that does not mean that when ‘basket of goods’ that is used to work out inflation is taken, prices has gone up that high.
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
^^ on spot.
but there is serious supply and demand problem in Pakistan, gov should clearly develop a plan to change it.
Mushi jhoom jhoom oooooooh jhoom… Barabar jhoom 
Re: thank you shaukat aziz
Brother, I did found out … there is no supply problem in Pakistan, only price problem (that is artificially kept low by government).
This is what happen when government artificially tries to keep price within the country down from international market … That is when world price of wheat has gone too high because of shortage of wheat supply … Pakistan government is trying to keep price down and that they are doing it by supplying wheat in utilities stores at rock bottom price of (Rs 260 to Rs 310) for 20 Kg when world market price is around Rs 700 per 20 Kg.
This policy is keeping Pakistan open market price down … still it is around Rs 500 per Kg … but if government keep supplying more and more wheat to utility stores just to keep the que down … local market price would furhter reduce … but that is only going to create grudge amongst wheat producers, distributers, millers, wholesellers, and retailers … and it is happening, as many are closing down.
I do not think that it is good idea to subsidise wheat to people using tax payer money … and not use that money for developing the country’s infrastructure.