Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

They should watch CSI, they might learn something. :clown:

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

Compare attack on Sherpao a week ago and then on BB and you will know right away that govt is involved in her assassination.

Sherpao was attacked on Eid day, 50 people died. Mosque sealed for two days, CSI style investigation conducted by forensic experts, collected each and every hair and nail even.

BB assassinated only a week later in the heart of military home, the crime site is power washed with water tankers and fire trucks.

Now if 7 Billion people of Earth say that Pakistan's angel government is not involved in BB's murder, I will not belive them.

Whether Zardari shook hands with Mush for his wife's murder, thats another story. So far every event that unfolded after her death are telling he could be involved.

WoooHoOooO...
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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

Brother, if you are really interested in answer than it is simple but if you just want to make issue out of nothing than it is as hard as coconut shell :)

BB got killed and her body was inside the car she was travelling. Car in present and preserved for any investigation, in the condition at the time she got killed (or died of accident). Her body is also present safely in her grave for any further investigation if necessary.

Surrounding area ... well, I think that it should not have taken that long to thoroughly investigate and record whatever needed from the area.

I believe that since area was a busy place, all investigation must have got done and recorded as quickly as possible ... area cleaned and opened for use ... and that is what happened. I do not see anything wrong there.

As for those that believe that area should have got left uncleaned and close for use ... I would like to know that what is in their mind and what they think how that could have helped ... other than leaving a mess for viewers to see and feel sorry? I also want to know, how long the area should have got left uncleaned?

If murder happens in unknown surroundings where no one knows how murder happened or what was the circumstances than only area is left uncleaned for few hours ... as police look for evidences related to unknown killer and circumstances killing happened ... or to find any clue like some button, foot print, bullet empty shell .. related to victim, criminal or related persons, that could be found and can give some further clue regarding murder, that can help to solve murder case.

Such was not the case with BB death ... as I think that very little related evidence to BB death could be found from the area ... other than whatever government might have already investigated, collected and recorded before cleaning the area of mess, so that area could be used by public without much inconvenience.

[that is what I believe ... and I believe that all who are shouting, are just tyring to make things political or for sake of argument].

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

I am glad you didnt go into criminal justice or forensics! the crime scene is preserved, and in this case the govt sent out ppl with 'baltiz' right away to wash away all evidence. Also, this was the back door of liaqat bagh, which is hardly used so ur theory about it being a busy place doesnt hold.

[quote]

As for those that believe that area should have got left uncleaned and close for use ... I would like to know that what is in their mind and what they think how that could have helped ... other than leaving a mess for viewers to see and feel sorry? I also want to know, how long the area should have got left uncleaned?

[/quote]

It was very easy to seal of that parking lot, and cover it like they did with the place where mushy's assasination attempt took place. Bahaney sey kaam nahee chaley ga.

[quote]

If murder happens in unknown surroundings where no one knows how murder happened or what was the circumstances than only area is left uncleaned for few hours ... as police look for evidences related to unknown killer and circumstances killing happened ... or to find any clue like some button, foot print, bullet empty shell .. related to victim, criminal or related persons, that could be found and can give some further clue regarding murder, that can help to solve murder case.

Such was not the case with BB death ... as I think that very little related evidence to BB death could be found from the area ... other than whatever government might have already investigated, collected and recorded before cleaning the area of mess, so that area could be used by public without much inconvenience.

[that is what I believe ... and I believe that all who are shouting, are just tyring to make things political or for sake of argument].
[/quote]

Think again even ustaad Musharraf admitted evidence was hurriedly washed off!

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

Police, actually CDA made mistake there, no doubt. They wanted to clear the area quickly to prevent protesters gathering in the area.

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

There is no CDA in Rawalpindi...

Please come up with more bahaney...

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

Whatever organization the firefighters in pindi belong to then. Maybe they are controlled by chaudries. I don't know how things work in pindi.

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

CDA = Capital Development Authority, and you thought Rawalpindi was the capital? :hehe:

Btw, the bold part highlights the whole thing, Musharraf probably asked them to wash away the evidence, makes sense, thank you for clarifying it. You should take over Scaatland Yaard.

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

I am not from pindi, I don’t know how you run your baadmashi over there or what names you give to it. I didn’t realize chaudries moonlight as fire wardens. Good to know :k:

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

I believe that it was not back door of the park but it was outside the park on the road ... anyhow, my concern is not that where it happened but what I am asking is that:

what is the importance of leaving the site in mess with body parts and blood all over the place (plus one devil's head too)? ... ... ... What it would have achieved? ... ... ... What evidence anyone want to collect from the site that could not have got collected in couple of hours after the incidence, that one expect to collect if the site was left un-cleaned?

[quote]
It was very easy to seal of that parking lot, and cover it like they did with the place where mushy's assasination attempt took place. Bahaney sey kaam nahee chaley ga.
[/quote]

Again, the question is that ... for what? what purpose? ... ... ... Please mention some purpose for leaving the site in the mess with body parts and blood all over the place.

[quote]
Think again even ustaad Musharraf admitted evidence was hurriedly washed off!
[/quote]

Well, what I believe that Musharraf must have realised that many Pakistanis are 'may na manoo type' and whatever government would do, they would keep complaining. Hence, probably Musharraf wanted to calm down these elements ... but that does not mean that he said that evidence that could be collected from the site was not collected, but what probably he meant was that ... maybe leaving mess on the site ... with body parts, head of suicide bomber, and blood all around the site ... would have made some happy. :)

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard


Bro! As much as i respect you...i wanna maintain that but i don't think you're in any position to say what you 'believe' Musharraf 'Meant' to say....just like u can't say 'Cheema meant to say such and such' when he was talkin all that bull about the lever theory...so please just stop before you embarrase urself
:)

Plus....your encounter questions still have not answered my query of Why Was The Scene Of Crime Cleaned? If you're in no position to answer this clearly, then i suggest to leave this to someone who can answer it confidently w/out employing more theories. Thanks

Here's a short and quick answer for you on the reason the scene of crime should have been preserved

Because a compromised crime scene can further delay, and jeoperdize a conclusive investigation. Now back to WHY was it compromised?

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

Bhutto killing: Scotland Yard faces tough task
Saturday, 05 January , 2008, 15:33
** Islamabad:** **Scotland Yard sleuths helping Pakistani authorities in the probe into the killing of former premier Benazir Bhutto are expected to face an uphill task as vital forensic evidence at the scene of the attack on her has already been destroyed. **
The five-member team from the British Metropolitan Police’s Counter-Terrorism Command on Friday night examined the armoured Toyota Land Cruiser in which Bhutto was travelling when she was attacked by a gunman and a suicide bomber after an election rally in Rawalpindi on December 27.
The Scotland Yard team took photos of the bomb-damaged vehicle, especially of the damage caused by splinters from the suicide bomber’s explosive device, at the police lines in Rawalpindi, said district nazim Raja Javed Ikhlas. The vehicle has been impounded by police and declared a “case property”.
Special: The Daughter of Destiny | Full coverage
The team will visit the site at Liaquat Bagh where Bhutto was attacked and the Rawalpindi General Hospital, where she was taken after the attack, to record statements of doctors who tried to save her. It is also expected to record statements of some persons who were injured in the suicide attack.

** However, analysts said the British team would face difficulties because of the lack of forensic evidence. Police had not cordoned off the assassination site, which has become almost a public memorial for Bhutto. The area was also washed hours after the incident an act that has been criticised by even President Pervez Musharraf. **
Analysts said the team would also face difficulties because no autopsy was conducted on Bhutto’s body at the request of her husband Asif Ali Zardari. The government has offered to exhume the body, but her family appears reluctant to allow this.
British High Commission spokesman Aidan Liddle said the Scotland Yard team will be “part of the Pakistani probe” and will not function independently.
“The five experts from the Counter-Terrorism Command will offer support and expertise, mainly forensic expertise,” Liddle told PTI.
Though the team’s deployment in Pakistan is “not open-ended”, British authorities have not set any timeframe for how long the investigators would remain in the country, Liddle said.
The British team was also briefed on Friday by Pakistani police detectives and officials of the Special Investigation Group, the anti-terror wing of the Federal Investigation Agency, on the status of the investigations by Pakistani authorities.
Meanwhile, district nazim Ikhas said a detailed report regarding security arrangements made by the Rawalpindi city administration for Bhutto during her rally in Liaquat Bagh has been submitted to President Musharraf.
The report clarifies the actual position and makes “it clear that there have been no security lapses regarding the protection of Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto”, Ikhlas said.
The report has held the personal security staff of Bhutto, including her security advisor Rehman Malik and a police officer of the rank of SSP, and other persons sitting in her bullet-proof vehicle responsible for not stopping her from coming out of the sun-roof to wave to her supporters.
Bhutto was attacked when she emerged from the sun-roof. Musharraf too said during an interaction with reporters on Thursday that Bhutto had thrown caution to the wind and gone to Liaquat Bagh despite being alerted about threats to her life.

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14584998

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

By Saeed Shah and Jonathan S. Landay, McClatchy Newspapers Fri Jan 11, 4:04 PM ET

                                                ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Two new reports on the assassination last month of Pakistani opposition leader Benazir Bhutto suggest that the killing may have been an ambitious plot rather than an isolated act of violence and that the government of President Pervez Musharraf knows far more than it's admitted about the murder.

http://us.bc.yahoo.com/b?P=OgwuwkWTcupFiPXYR4f9UxLZSyIPEkeIDx8ADvIL&T=1dulmnh6m%2FX%3D1200099103%2FE%3D2022202689%2FR%3Dnews%2FK%3D5%2FV%3D2.1%2FW%3DH%2FY%3DYAHOO%2FF%3D479153346%2FH%3DY2FjaGVoaW50PSJuZXdzIiBjb250ZW50PSJQYWtpc3Rhbjthc3Nhc3NpbmF0aW9uO1Bha2lzdGFuaTtnb3Zlcm5tZW50O3BvbGljZTtlbGVjdGlvbjtJdDttYW47bWlsaXRhcnk7aXQ7c2VjdXJpdHk7Y29kZTt0ZXJyb3Jpc3Q7Y3JpbWU7aG9tZTtpZGVudGl0eTtwb29yO3JlZnVybF93d3dfeWFob29fY29tIiByZWZ1cmw9InJlZnVybF93d3dfeWFob29fY29tIiB0b3BpY3M9InJlZnVybF93d3dfeWFob29fY29tIg--%2FQ%3D-1%2FS%3D1%2FJ%3D4C719345&U=13bsids3d%2FN%3D4.UFz0LEYrI-%2FC%3D619213.12054947.12500278.1442997%2FD%3DLREC%2FB%3D4919452

A police officer who witnessed the assassination said that a mysterious crowd stopped Bhutto’s car that day, moving her to emerge through the sunroof. And a document has surfaced in the Pakistani news media that contradicts the government’s version of her death and contains details on the pistol and the suicide bomb used in the murder.
The witness was Ishtiaq Hussain Shah of the Rawalpindi police. As Bhutto’s car headed onto Rawalpindi’s Liaquat Road after an election rally Dec. 27 , a crowd appeared from nowhere and stopped the motorcade, shouting slogans of her Pakistan Peoples Party and waving party banners, according to his account.
Bhutto, apparently thinking she was greeting her supporters, emerged through the sunroof of the bulletproof car to wave.
It was Shah’s job to clear the way for the motorcade. But 10 feet from where he was standing, a man in the crowd wearing a jacket and sunglasses raised his arm and shot at the former prime minister. “I jumped to overpower him,” the deputy police superintendent said later. “A mighty explosion took place soon afterwards.”
Shah suffered multiple injuries and is recuperating in a Rawalpindi military hospital, guarded by agents of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence directorate.
Who organized the crowd is only one of the mysteries two weeks after the assassination. “I don’t know who they were or from where they came,” the Rawalpindi officer told Dawn newspaper. “They just appeared on the road.”
The second report emerged in the Pakistani daily newspaper The News, with detailed information about the pistol and bomb. It rejects the government’s conclusion that Bhutto died when the force of the suicide blast threw her head against the sunroof lever of her car. Such an impact couldn’t have fractured her skull, it said. The government refused to confirm the report’s authenticity, but a security official verified it to McClatchy . He spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.
According to the document, which the paper described as a “top agency” preliminary report, a pistol made by Norinco, a Chinese brand, was recovered from the scene, with the lot number 311-90. An MUV-2 triggering mechanism for the bomb also was found, as had been used in 15 previous suicide bombings in Pakistan , with the same lot number and factory code.
“It is a clear indicator that the same terrorist group is involved in almost all these incidents,” concluded the report, which the paper quoted at length.
Another mystery of the case is why so valuable a report has been buried. Among its other conclusions: Bhutto’s assassin, after shooting her, detonated his own suicide belt. No ambulance was called, and it took 25 minutes to get her to the hospital, only two miles from the scene.
Bhutto, and her security adviser Rehman Malik , had complained repeatedly that she was given inadequate official security, including mobile phone jammers that didn’t work and less than the four-vehicle escort that she thought was needed to protect the four corners of her car. In an e-mail to her U.S. lobbyist, Mark Siegel , in late October, Bhutto wrote that if anything happened to her “I would hold Musharraf responsible,” in addition to four individuals she named as plotting to kill her in a letter sent to Musharraf on Oct. 16 .
There was no security cordon around Bhutto— who’d escaped a suicide bombing attack Oct. 18 , the day she returned to Pakistan from self-imposed exile abroad— as she left the park in Rawalpindi. The crime scene was cleared immediately and hosed down, destroying vital evidence. Doctors at the hospital where she was taken, who announced the night it happened that she’d died of bullet wounds to the head and neck, changed their story the next day. There was no autopsy.
Musharraf’s government has stuck to its explanation that Bhutto died when she hit her head on the sunroof’s lever after the bomb went off, despite the emergence of several videos that show the gunman firing, then Bhutto disappearing into her vehicle before the blast. Officials also turned up what they said was a transcript of a telephone conversation between the supposed masterminds— militant Islamists allied with the Taliban— congratulating each other, the next day.
Scotland Yard detectives, whom Musharraf called in under pressure from home and abroad, have been told that they’re to investigate only the cause of death, not the killer’s identity. “Providing clarity regarding ‘The precise cause of Ms. Bhutto’s death’ is said to be the principal purpose of the deployment,” said Aidan Liddle , a spokesman for the British High Commission in Islamabad .
To many in Pakistan , it all raises questions about whether the government was complicit in the assassination. To others, it points at the very least to a concerted attempt to hide the massive extent of a security failure.
Bhutto’s own private-security arrangements seemed poor, chaotic and amateurish. Armored cars are not fitted with sunroofs. Hers was modified in Karachi against all safety advice, according to a security company that operates in that city but spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject. After Bhutto’s death, her husband made the startling revelation that she’d been guarded by men he’d met in prison.
“Both the state and the internal security of the Pakistan Peoples Party failed miserably,” said Masood Sharif Khattak , who was the head of the Intelligence Bureau , Pakistan’s top civilian intelligence agency, while Bhutto was prime minister and now is retired. “But state responsibility (for her security) stands first and foremost.”
“The fact that there are so many suicide bombings taking place in the country, and the security and intelligence apparatus is unable to prevent them, only leads to one conclusion: The jihadists have enablers within the system that allow them to do their stuff,” said Kamran Bokhari of Strategic Forecasting, a consultancy based in Austin, Texas .
“We’re not talking high-level officials, just people at midlevel, but mostly junior, who could provide them with logistics to operate.”
Musharraf has denied that government agencies are involved at any level.
One of the most widely suspected forces behind Bhutto’s assassination, al Qaida, hasn’t claimed responsibility. The Pakistani militant whom the government has blamed, Baitullah Mehsud, has denied it. Mehsud is a 34-year-old tribal leader in the lawless Waziristan region, in the northwest, who’s emerged as the leader of Pakistan’s version of the Taliban.
Dr. Farzana Shaikh , associate fellow at the Royal Institute of International Affairs in London , said: “If they (al Qaida) are intent on weakening Musharraf and his regime, they could do no better than this. For them to simply leave room open for speculation, much of which has centered on government complicity, would be a very clever move.”
“That people are willing to believe this is a very telling reflection of the declining credibility of the Musharraf regime.”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20080111/wl_mcclatchy/2812898

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

As they say, Sindh's leaders go to die in Pindi. I guess you agree with this too.

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

^Murtaza was murdered in Pindi. I didnt know.

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

Brother, you mean I am not in a position to say what I believe? why not? Since when a person is not in a position to say what that person believes? What stops me to say what I believe? :) I am surely in a position to say what I beleive what Musharraf means because that is what I believe he means. :D

As for Cheema, what he said is clear and that is, BB did not died of bullet. So, what is wrong there?

Yaar, aap kuch sonch ker likha karo. You may not agree with what I believe and I may not agree with what you believe, but to write that I cannot say what I believe is really funny. :)

[quote]

Plus....your encounter questions still have not answered my query of Why Was The Scene Of Crime Cleaned? If you're in no position to answer this clearly, then i suggest to leave this to someone who can answer it confidently w/out employing more theories. Thanks
[/quote]

I did answered the query but that is different matter that you would not like to accept that and there is no way a person can make someone accept an answer to a query if other do not want to accept that.

I told you what I believe and that is after few hours of investigation the scene had nothing left for investigation, and thus there was no point to leave it uncleaned. Whatever the scene could have provided for investigation was already collected. I might be wrong but that is what I believe and I do not think that you are in any position to prove me wrong.

[quote]
Here's a short and quick answer for you on the reason the scene of crime should have been preserved

Because a compromised crime scene can further delay, and jeoperdize a conclusive investigation. Now back to WHY was it compromised?
[/quote]

I think that you are wrong. To me, cleaning the scene after all required humanly possible investigations and collections of evidence cannot be called compromising or jeoperdizing any futher investigations. I do not see any requirement for the scene to be left uncleaned for indefinite period (even if President Musharraf says so, I do not care).

If you really think that there was something that the scene could have given if it was left uncleaned for days, than please let me know what is there in your mind? I would appreciate, thanks :).

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

You have not been watching the news lately. Scotland Yard faces an uphill battle because the evidence has been destroyed and/or compromised, whatever little they do have to work with. Please read what i post before you go on repeating the same things over and over. The above article i posted clearly states the reason why I BELIEVE and so do the experts, that scene of assassination should have been protected and not washed off. And yes it does complicate things and that in turn does indeed make the investigation a tough one.

Thanks for your views. Aap bhi parh, soch aur samjh kar post kiya karo please. There's no shame in being wrong sometimes. :) Cheers!

****------Parha Likha Ameer Thread++++/////
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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

there were four shots, so did all four hit BB?
and i think with the help of bullet u may always find out what kind of gun is used.

though the point mentioned in the article is very convincing about Pakistan's unique cottage industry in gun production, but still its not hard to track down which specific area it belongs to because you gonna notice that all the stuff come into cottage industries do speak for their area distinctive features. (such as embroidery, daggers)

meray dahi anay!

~ *►*~ Paindo Poems ~*◄*~
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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

You mean this part of the above artilcle? :slight_smile:

I believe that above statement is BS. What they mean by … British team would face difficulties because of the lack of forensic evidence, because police had not cordoned off the assassination site … ?

Does the analysts expects that the site should have stayed cordoned until the British team came? what BS of analysts if he thinks that way:halo:

I think that analysts who ever that may be has only talked BS .. as no site is left uncleaned indefinitely and as for Pakistan investigation team, they must have already worked on the site before it got cleaned, so its OK. As for calling british team … at that time there was not even any thinking about calling British team (and even if there was, site could not have got left uncleaned for that long).

For British team, they should not find problem as if they need any evidence from the site (though I do not know what evidence), they could get that from whatever evidence got collected by Pakistani investigating team before the site got cleaned, as Paksitani investigation team is as good as any foreign team.

*.

As for autopsy, that is no problem too, as if autopsy would be needed than british team could do that (and I hope they do that).*

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Re: Terrorism Weekly The Bhutto Assassination: A Tough Case for Scotland Yard

^The Hariri's assassination site was kept cordoned off for months.