terrorism counties to be Pakistan’s no 1 problem and our govt is still not focused on addressing it. and it is not about hard core terrorist organizations only. they have many subtle sympathizers who are radicalizing our society very cleverly. Let me quote someone from internet which i found very interesting:
"The real job of Dr Farhat Hashmi, Zakir nalaiq, Maulana Tariq Jameel, bilal philips, mufti menk and other such closet salafists is not to manufacture terrorists. Their job is to ensure that the general public is neutralized through their sugar coated pills of islamism. Essentially this means that whenever their frontline troops such as taliban, boko haram, jaish etc do a religious raid (which ignorants call terrorism), the general public either says that muslims cannot do this as islam is the religion of peace or support theories in which hindus, jews and other infidels are the real people behind that act or something else which deflects the attention away from the real issue.
Furthermore, these closet wahabis have been very successful in directing the muslim youth towards puritanical islam and away from other softer strands in islam such as sufism. Sufism or going to the shrines was very common amongst the muslims of the subcontinent only a generation ago but its now considered almost heretical by most young educated/indoctrinated pakistanis"
Let’s admit it that salafists with billions of dollars of investment over the past 39-40 years have changed the religious landscape of muslims forever"*
and now we are finding out that this tashfeen was a student at al huda as well. i have few women in my family who used to totally normal but completely transformed after going to al huda to the extent that they started ignoring heir kids and husbands as they were always busy with al huda plus their socail behavior changed. here is a blog on al huda
terrorism counties to be Pakistan's no 1 problem and our govt is still not focused on addressing it. and it is not about hard core terrorist organizations only. they have many subtle sympathizers who are radicalizing our society very cleverly. Let me quote someone from internet which i found very interesting:
"The real job of Dr Farhat Hashmi, Zakir nalaiq, Maulana Tariq Jameel, bilal philips, mufti menk and other such closet salafists is not to manufacture terrorists. Their job is to ensure that the general public is neutralized through their sugar coated pills of islamism. Essentially this means that whenever their frontline troops such as taliban, boko haram, jaish etc do a religious raid (which ignorants call terrorism), the general public either says that muslims cannot do this as islam is the religion of peace or support theories in which hindus, jews and other infidels are the real people behind that act or something else which deflects the attention away from the real issue.
Furthermore, these closet wahabis have been very successful in directing the muslim youth towards puritanical islam and away from other softer strands in islam such as sufism. Sufism or going to the shrines was very common amongst the muslims of the subcontinent only a generation ago but its now considered almost heretical by most young educated/indoctrinated pakistanis"
Let's admit it that salafists with billions of dollars of investment over the past 39-40 years have changed the religious landscape of muslims forever"*
can you please explain how salafists invest in Pakistan and how it changes/affects the mindset of average people?
And what happened during that historical time period ? Salafists and their hard line brand of Islam wahabbism was shoved down every Pakistani villagers throats. They were made to believe infidels were taking Afghanistan over and that this was a fight on Islam which it wasn't (USSR just wanted land and assets, they could care less you like to pray 5 times a day), and they were made to believe they were fighting a real jihad. The religious fervor motivated troops so much that the Russians were outmatched and couldn't meet the enthusiasm head on. So they were defeated. But the bottom line is that the Salafi seeds were Sewn and people made some serious $$$ off of teaching people wrong teachings and calling them Islamic. They taught it's ok to kill women and kids, destroy the natural habitat, destroy buildings, force people to convert to Islam, and that it's ok to kill anyone who doesn't believe in wahabbism, and that everything is about the dress code and women's make up is haram and they shouldn't get educated or do anything other than have jihadi babies. None of which were in the Quran or Muhammad's teachings. They twisted verses in the Quran, took them out of context and sold them as a soldier's handbook to create an army to fight a war that was never theirs to begin with. And they made money out of corrupting Islam and they walk around with their fine robes and headdresses and 20 million dollar designer Burqas in posh mansions now in Karachi. It's amazing to me how these tableeghi ignorants in Karachi live in the finest houses with tall walls that no one can touch. Where did the money come from ?
It's disgusting to me that you twist Muhammad SAW's words, make people believe he said and did things he didn't so that you can make some cash $$$.
Molana Tariq Jamil is not Salafi at all. He is from Tableeghi Jamaat one of the most moderate group presently in Pakistan. Neither he ever involves in Salafi type tetrorism rather outrightly condemn it
I agree to that point. Tariq Jameel doesn't encourage terrorism he is very vocal against it actually. He tells stories of his youth when jaahil imams would mistreat people and so forth under the name of Islam.
It would be nice if these imams dressed more normally. If you're a Pakistani why dress in all these robes ? Just dress like a regular person. Maybe it's their clothes that make them seem like Wahabbis.
I agree to that point. Tariq Jameel doesn't encourage terrorism he is very vocal against it actually. He tells stories of his youth when jaahil imams would mistreat people and so forth under the name of Islam.
It would be nice if these imams dressed more normally. If you're a Pakistani why dress in all these robes ? Just dress like a regular person. Maybe it's their clothes that make them seem like Wahabbis.
He is from Tableeghi Jamaat and usually these people dress in the same manner with amama on their head.Othetwise in his youth he never missed a single concert/musical event of Government College LHR & King Edward Medical College he used to tell this in his lectures & also mentioned each & every superhit bollywood movie of 70s to Amir Khan
How many terrorist related activities popped up post Russia invasion of Afghanistan and US jumping in to fight a proxy was using Pakistan?
ok let me get to this point which many people raise.
The reason terrorist activities did not pop up much in Pakistan during afghan war and post afghan war was because our whole state machinery was in fact busy creating, supporting and nurturing terrorists during that time. As PCG correctly pointed out that the state was busy raising snakes under so called strategic depth rationale to handle Afghanistan and later to use them in Kashmir to teach India a lesson.
Sincec these terrorists groups were fully under Pakistani state patronage, there was as such no conflict of interest, so why would those groups stage terrorist activities in Pakistan?
When usa moved into afghanistan, pakistani state under pressure finally abandoned these terrorist groups and that caused a huge rift and they started suicide bombs and terrorist activities. And you know what, it was just matter of time before Pakistani state and these terrorists would have fallen part. 911 happened to be that catalyst. So pls don't blame Americans only. Blame those as well in Pakistan who were raising and nurturing these snakes for 2 decades thinking they will only bite India. Guess what they are now biting us and boy they have some bite. Why not, we trained them!
Sincec these terrorists groups were fully under Pakistani state patronage, there was as such no conflict of interest, so why would those groups stage terrorist activities in Pakistan?
lo ji, so people who died/got injured during 80s bomb explosions were fake? Why did Zia give a statement "there will be more explosions"? I guess no bombings occurred in Pakistan in 80s?
lo ji, so people who died/got injured during 80s bomb explosions were fake? Why did Zia give a statement "there will be more explosions"? I guess no bombings occurred in Pakistan in 80s?
I never said that no bomb explosion took place in zia era . There were some but most of those bombs were result of afghan and Russian intelligence agencies Khad and KGB who were trying to get even with Isi role in Afghanistan.
There were some bombs between 1989 and 2001 as well but those were not suicide type and were not arranged by Pakistani terrorist groups as those groups and Pakistani state were on the same page in that period.
The real suicide bombings, beheadings, and terrorist activities in Pakistan started to peak when we abandoned those snakes after 2003 ...same snakes that we were raising for 3 decades and upon getting dumped, those snakes started to bite their own masters.
That is the point I am making. Terrorist activities started to peak in Pakistan after 911 not because of USA involvement in Afghanistan necessarily or due to drone attacks as we always say but because we finally abandoned those snakes. Before 911 there was some peace in Pak because we were busy nurturing those snakes but it was a fake peace. It was just matter of time before those snakes would start to bite us.
^ so you do agree that terrorism started after the Russia invaded Afghanistan... good. You trained a group of people who want to fight about how to fight a trained professional army then what do you expect that they will sit down like a pet dog when YOU tell them to stop? If one experience failed in Afghanistan then why was it created again in Iraq?
^ so you do agree that terrorism started after the Russia invaded Afghanistan... good. You trained a group of people who want to fight about how to fight a trained professional army then what do you expect that they will sit down like a pet dog when YOU tell them to stop? If one experience failed in Afghanistan then why was it created again in Iraq?
well sarkar, this is pakistan affairs page, so i was just focusing on situation in Pakistan and what our state did. what happened in iraq is beyond Pakistan's jurisdiction, and we were not involved there (thankfully). so i would just keep quiet.
with more than 90% of the country filled with uneducated (even the educated ones are jahil, dumb, stupid) people, what can you really expect? Add to that social and economic issues and a massive population - receipe for disaster......
you don't need foreign enemies when your own people become your enemy because they did not get anything in life and when the govt and military failed them (each one doing turns in corruption and rule and making money)
well sarkar, this is pakistan affairs page, so i was just focusing on situation in Pakistan and what our state did. what happened in iraq is beyond Pakistan's jurisdiction, and we were not involved there (thankfully). so i would just keep quiet.
The reason I brought it in is for similarity.... the terrorism begins in warzones, sp when we create proxy guerilla groups.
You shud do better than blogs. Many of the disturbed souls like Tashfeen Malik go to several different groups in different times, you may find that she might have gone to some sufis at some stage of her life, does not necessarily mean all had a hand in shaping their mind.
Having said that I agree with you that there are women AND men who take these institutions as purpose of their life and neglect everything else. However the alternate you are presenting that is “sufi” Islam may not be any better in this regard. I have also seen women who have left their husbands and children and became servants of peer. You cannot replace one sugar candy with another.
Rational progressive religious scholars in my opinion are better option than both.
You shud do better than blogs. Many of the disturbed souls like Tashfeen Malik go to several different groups in different times, you may find that she might have gone to some sufis at some stage of her life, does not necessarily mean all had a hand in shaping their mind.
Having said that I agree with you that there are women AND men who take these institutions as purpose of their life and neglect everything else. However the alternate you are presenting that is "sufi" Islam may not be any better in this regard. I have also seen women who have left their husbands and children and became servants of peer. You cannot replace one sugar candy with another.
Rational progressive religious scholars in my opinion are better option than both.
one thing is clear, pak will never be a classical secualr country....our DNA will not accept it.
it will always be a religious country. question is, do we need whabism or sufism? as PCG said, sufism at least never took anyone's life whereas wahabism never spared anyone' s life.
once we move towards sufism, yes we need ijmah and qayas for evolution of our religion so that it is tuned with 21st century.
