Terror attack in Mumbai, Hotel Oberoi under siege

Re: Terror attack in Mumbai, Hotel Oberoi under siege

Pakistani claims are as solid as Indian claims. Indian claims and its media have been hosed down worldwide and were the laughing stock of just about everyone India turned to for help be it Saudi Arabia or China. Everyone but India is ready to have a joint investigation, but India maybe afraid that it will have to show its dirty laundry to the world if that happens.

Can you imagine what kinda tarnishment India will get when it has to punish RSS and other terrorist organization who are funded by it's government wing a.k.a. BJP. Oh My! God Forbid that day should come.

India needs to stop whining about others not doing enough, and start its own house cleaning. Ban Terrorist organization like RSS, and ask RAW to stop cross-border terrorism.

Re: Terror attack in Mumbai, Hotel Oberoi under siege

You 'say' Pakistan claim is 'solid'. Nobody believes it.

We on the other hand have proven with voiceprints, phone records and what not, that our charges are true. Your own minister admits it.

When facts speak for themselves, do we need to argue at all.

Re: Terror attack in Mumbai, Hotel Oberoi under siege

voiceprints, phone records, and what not can be cooked up as well.

Re: Terror attack in Mumbai, Hotel Oberoi under siege

Do you really give us that much technical credence, that we can actually cook up voice print? Listen to yourself

then why don’t you run in the UN with your world class solid proofs & claims and shout there to take action against India?, you know what you people are afraid of? you people know what will be the reaction in UN?

and that reaction will be**“chal hat, Ulta Chor Kotwaal ko Daante”** :hehe:

Teggy ... Qasab was not a Pakistani ... that was the "claim" what happened to that !!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for China ... they did "help" in baning the JuD in United Nations, which they had previously refused to do. Even today every second day delegations are coming to Pakistan .... pushing them to act against the terrorists ... so you think India's claim is a joke ... it seems you are the only one laughing.

Our Man in Bananastan

Jeff Huber | December 17, 2008

Truth is truly stranger than fiction. Graham Greene’s 1958 spy novel Our Man in Havana told a tragicomic tale of false intelligence crafted to suit the needs of a political agenda. John le Carre’s 1996 The Tailor of Panama repeated the theme.
Ahmed Chalabi was Dick Cheney’s real life man of the hour when it came time to shake and bake the intelligence on Iraq, and the Dark Lord and his neocon chamberlains are still trying to fabricate a casus belli for Iran. The Persian Ploy may be running up against a term limit, but there’s all the time in the world left to slip on the Bananastan peel. Heck, western superpowers have been flinging themselves down that slope for centuries.
At this point in the American experiment, U.S. intelligence is to intelligence what Kenny G is to jazz. After nearly a decade of getting hassled by the minions of the Office of the Vice President, our spy agencies have no more credibility than our sacked and pillaged mainstream press. In fact, the lines between intelligence and news and popular entertainment have virtually vanished. As evidence of this, witness Exhibit A: “Plans of Attack,” by intelligence analyst, counterterrorism expert, news commentator and novelist Richard A. Clarke.
Thriller
The bare bones reality of the terrorist attack on Mumbai, India was incredible to begin with: 10 kids in their twenties managed to hold the law enforcement and military establishment of a nuclear power at bay for days. The Indians have their own Hindu terrorist cells, but it would be embarrassing to admit they got their pants pulled down by a gang of homegrown yahooligans, so they immediately accused Pakistani yahooligans. If it turns out they blamed Muslim evildoers for doing evil that Hindu evildoers did, that’s okay. They did the same thing in September and got away with it.
America’s newspaper of record, The New York Times, did everything it could to prop up India’s accusations. A December 8 story said that unnamed Pakistani authorities, under pressure from unspecified sources in India and the U.S., raided a camp run by Lashkar-e-Taiba, the militant group suspected of carrying out the Mumbai attack, and arrested Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi, who “masterminded the attack.” This information came from an unnamed State Department official in Washington, who was repeating what unnamed American and Pakistani authorities had apparently told him. But, the unnamed State official said, unnamed American Embassy officials wouldn’t verify the story, nor would unnamed Pakistani officials in Islamabad, who were presumably different unnamed Pakistani officials from the unnamed Pakistani authorities who told the story to the unnamed State official in the first place.
On December 9, the NYT noted that “Mr. Lakhvi has been described as the mastermind of the Mumbai attacks,” but didn’t say who has described him as the mastermind or why. NYT also said that unnamed American counterterrorism officials in Washington “wanted to see proof that Mr. Lakhvi was actually in custody,” but it made no mention of American officials wanting to see any proof that Mr. Lakhvi actually had anything to do with the Mumbai attacks.
Bollywood
I had to look to the BBC to discover the source of the accusations against Pakistan: “Indian authorities.” Mumbai police are the ones who say the attackers were Lashkar-e-Taiba, but “They did not say how this was known.”
One of the attackers survived and was questioned. “Some media reports have suggested that truth serum may be used as part of his interrogation,” the BBC said. It sounds like ventriloquism might have been part of the interrogation too; photographs of the dead bodies of the other nine guys were “too graphic to show.” The guy they took the rubber hose to must have been in lovely shape.
So, the “news” story we got from the NYT was a double secret anonymous hearsay rumor based on alleged testimony taken from a coerced deathbed confession that may or may not have been post dated. Don’t get mad at the NYT though. Their scum baggage was nothing compared to the stunt The Washington Post pulled.
The Hunt for Red Herring
WaPo had the good grace to put Clarke’s “analysis” of the Mumbai massacre in the opinion section, but it belonged in the book section plainly labeled as bad fiction. It was screed of incontinent narrative interrupted by tumescent dialogue that sounded like something out of a badly dubbed foreign film. I kept expecting one of the characters to strike a belligerent pose and bark, “Our kung fu is stronger than your tai chi!”
“The network” of terrorists groups, Clarke warns, “is approaching 2009 with a specific agenda. So, too, is the incoming leadership of the network’s chief enemy, the United States.” To understand how the two sides think, we must “imagine two hypothetical meetings in which each side plots its terrorism agenda for 2009.”
Jesus, Larry, and Curly; to understand what’s really going on, we have to make stuff up?
“A half-dozen bearded and robed men are sitting on rugs in a circle,” Clarke writes. “As the titular leader of the movement, Osama bin Laden opens the meeting.”
A-ha! I wondered how long it would take before al Qaeda became the culprit in the Mumbai incident.
“‘I recall well how you often met with me in Afghanistan during the war against the godless Soviets,’ bin Laden says. ‘I remember how you helped us set up our training camps there in the 1990s, and how you provided us with safe haven here in Pakistan when we left Afghanistan after our ‘planes operation’ brought down the towers in 2001.’”
Ahmed, your son, the doctor who became a terrorist after the infidels dropped bombs on his wedding, is at the door.
It goes on like that, and Muhammad Omar of the Taliban is at the meeting, and Hakimullah Mehsud of the other Taliban is there too, as is a representative from Pakistani intelligence, and bin Laden’s “short, squat” (as opposed to “tall, squat”) lieutenant Ayman al-Zawahiri, who says, “Soon, the Pakistani army will leave the Afghan border. Thanks be to God, and to Lashkar-e-Taiba.”
Great. Caesar’s. Ghost.
The scenario Clarke paints in the situation room of the West Wing is equally purple. High-level hobnobgoblins sit around and go hamana hamana until somebody from the National Counterterrorism Center says: “We could see al-Qaeda attacks in 2009 on the Arabian Peninsula, in Europe, even here at home. But of course, we have no actionable intelligence pointing to a specific plot.”
We could see flying pigs repair the Hubble telescope in 2009. We could see a lot of things, but the thing we won’t likely see is any coherent intelligence analysis on the terrorists. Sure, Clarke is the biggest flake in the cereal bowl, but keep in mind that he was one of the top guys in his field for decades. He’s retired now, but think how many of the folks still at the wheel are just like him.
There’s a chance that Clarke and the rumor mill press are right about the Mumbai incident and its probable fall out, but so what? Jeane Dixon predicted thousands of things every year; the odds were certain that one them would come true.
Soothsaying is fine as a checkout line amusement, but it’s a heck of a thing to shape foreign policy around.

The Tailor of Mumbai

Jeff Huber | December 23, 2008

My December 10 article “Our Man in Bananastan” discussed how the hasty conclusion that Pakistani militants were behind the terror attack in India sounded like the bogus intelligence described in satiric espionage novels by Graham Greene and John le Carre. The New York Times, following the journalistic standard it established when it helped Dick Cheney sell the Iraq invasion, reported the “facts” of the Mumbai affair as deduced from double secret hearsay.
Recyclable Sources
The Pakistani group Lashkar-e-Taiba was behind the Indian attack, according to an unnamed State Department official who was rephrasing what unnamed American and Pakistani authorities had told him; but, unnamed American Embassy officials wouldn’t verify the story for the unnamed State official, nor would unnamed Pakistani officials in Islamabad.
NYT’s unnamed source at State also said that his/her/its unnamed sources said that unnamed Pakistani authorities, under pressure from unnamed sources in India, had arrested Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi, a member of Lashkar. (Don’t get the two confused now. “Lakhvi” is they guy; “Lashkar” is the thing.) NYT reported that Lakhvi (the guy) reportedly “masterminded the attacks,” but didn’t make clear which unnamed sources had leveled that allegation.
An anonymous senior Pakistani official apparently confirmed that Lakhvi had been arrested along with a bunch of other guys who belonged to Lashkar the thing, but the official “later backed away from the assertion.”
Another NYT article reported that unnamed American counterterrorism officials in Washington “wanted to see proof that Mr. Lakhvi was actually in custody,” but apparently zero officials, named or unnamed, American or Indian or Pakistani, gave a dog’s last lunch about seeing proof that Lakhvi the guy or Lashkar the thing actually had anything to do with the Mumbai attacks.
The Washington Post took the Mumbai tale to the next level of incredibility when it published a piece by former counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke that purported to be expert opinion but read like the beginning of Clarke’s next bad spy thriller. Clarke essentially tells us that in order to understand what’s really happening in South Asia right now, we have to imagine that the shake and bake scenario he’s about to present is true. By the end of the article, the Mumbai incident, like all terror acts, leads to al Qaeda, and Osama bin Laden is giving orders to a couple of Taliban characters and a guy from Lashkar the thing and a Pakistani intelligence dude on how they need to get cocked and loaded to defile with the new American president’s head.
It took the BBC to report that all of the allegations against Lashkar stemmed from interrogations by the Mumbai police of the surviving member of the terror group, who might not have been a whole lot less dead than his nine former buddies when they shot truth serum into him.
Snow Thy Enemy
On December 11, Britain’s Times Online reported that the UN Security Council, under pressure from the ubiquitous unnamed sources in India and the U.S., has placed Lakhvi and four other guys in Lashkar on a “terrorist blacklist.” I’m dying to find out what kind of list Dean Wormer put them on. Keep in mind that Lakhvi and Lashkar are still only “suspects,” still based on the sole evidence of a guy nobody has seen except the Indian police he supposedly confessed to. The UN has also placed sanctions against Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the charity arm of Lashkar.
On December 17, State Department spokesman Robert Wood said Pakistan has given the U.S. a “very solemn commitment” to disentangle the charitable Jamaat from the evildoing Lashkar. “I think the Pakistani government is being very sincere,” Wood said.
Yeah.
Wood also said, “Look, they’re (Pakistan) on the front lines of terrorism, as we’ve said many times before.” However many times State has said Pakistan is on the front line of terrorism, I missed all of them. The last time I paid attention to that sort of bull jargon, Iraq was the “central front” in the war on terrorism. I expected the next central front to be Afghanistan, until the last minute to withdraw troops from Iraq came along and the central front shifted back there. I guess with Pakistan in the mix we now have a three front circus. I don’t know how Iran fits into all this; maybe it’s the enemy at our back. (Oh, watch the Pentagon propaganda fairies steal that one. And those Muslim agitators in Somalia, we’ll call them “the enemy below!”)
Indian police allegedly questioned two Indian Muslims they claim to have arrested in February during an attack on a police camp in northern India. One of the prisoners, Fahim Ansari, was said to be carrying maps highlighting Mumbai landmarks, several of which were hit in last month’s attack, at the time of his arrest. If he were really carrying such maps, you’d think that might have clued in the Indian authorities that some evildoing was headed down the pike for Mumbai, but maybe I’m being too critical. I mean, think how many U.S. authorities had to be a-snooze at the switch for 9/11 to happen.
But one also has to wonder what Ansari was doing with maps of the next big terror job in his pocket while he and his buds were shagging the Indian police camp. Come to think of it, Indian authorities supposedly identified all those dead guys who pulled the Mumbai job from I.D.s they were carrying. If ten twenty-something year old guys were smart enough to sneak into the largest city of a nuclear power and hold its entire law enforcement and military establishment at bay for days, how could they be dumb enough to carry their wallets with them? Is that a Lashkar thing, a way make sure the authorities can trace their suicide commandos back to them? If so, why are the Lashkar guys denying they had anything to do with the Mumbai incident?
Pakistani news group Dawn claims to have visited the Pakistani hometown of the alleged suspect Indian police are holding and spoken to his father, who allegedly admits the alleged suspect is his son. India’s The Hindu claims Pakistani authorities have cordoned off the town so no one can confirm Dawn’s story.
Dawn and other Pakistani news outlets claim that the FBI, after interrogating the surviving Mumbai attacker, cleared Pakistan’s Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI) organization of any involvement in the attack. As best one can tell, the Pakistani media’s source for this story was Efrem Zimbalist Jr. An earlier story by Pakistan’s The Nation claimed that the FBI, along with India’s intelligence agency and Israel, were “hatching” a conspiracy to destabilize the ISI.
Then there’s the scoop from India’s Times Now about this guy they identify as “Sabauddin” who is the “alleged Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) finance[r] in India.” The alleged financer Sabauddin is alleged to be the guy Indian authorities arrested in February along with that Fahim Ansari guy who was allegedly carrying maps of the Mumbai terror sites while he and Sabauddin supposedly shagged the police station in northern India. One has to wonder why LeT allowed its financer to go on a field job; maybe it was like in Twelve O’clock High where the chaplain and the admin officer sneak aboard a B-17 for a raid over Germany and General Savage doesn’t find out until afterwards.

The only thing we can say for sure regarding this unholy narrative is that both India and Pakistan are incompetent and crooked, that their news media are every bit as untrustworthy as ours, and that we’ll never get to the bottom of the story.
But that doesn’t matter. What matters is that we have “upheaval” in South Asia that constitutes “clear and present” security concerns to us in North America and which demands that we pour more troops into the Banastans and keep them there until things become less up-heaved, which they never will be as long as we’re there heaving our weight around.

The above two articles do an excellent job analyzing the media, its sources and how the story that we supposedly know unfolded. The author, Jeff Huber is a retired U.S. Naval Commander and his writings are required reading at the U.S. Naval War College.

The first sentence of the last paragraph of the second article says it all:

[quote]
The only thing we can say for sure regarding this unholy narrative is that both India and Pakistan are incompetent and crooked, that their news media are every bit as untrustworthy as ours, and that we'll never get to the bottom of the story.
[/quote]

You can take solace in these conspiracy theories ....... now that you know the reality too ....

Strange he not visited this region again after December 23 ..... perhaps selective amnesia ....:D

Who says I am taking solace?

[quote]
Strange he not visited this region again after December 23 ..... perhaps selective amnesia ....:D
[/quote]

Who is "he"? Please take some English lessons first.

But your reply is the typical, hackneyed response I expected from a semi-literate Indian.

Is that all you have to say? .... thought you would add to this article .... as to how this is a conspiracy against Pakistan ...

Think it is better to stay mum as the "author" of this article has kept after this ..... let the things flow .....

I am just answering your stupid questions. Did you not want me to do that?

[QUOTE]
as to how this is a conspiracy against Pakistan ...
[/QUOTE]

Where did I say that this is a conspiracy against Pakistan? Give me a direct quote, otherwise you are a liar.

[QUOTE]
Think it is better to stay mum as the "author" of this article has kept after this ..... let the things flow .....
[/quote]

This author is 100 times more intelligent than a semi-literate Indian such as yourself.

As an "educated ' and "enlightened" Pakistani I am sure you are aware of what has happened in past few weeks. Qasab has been finally "identified" as a Pakistani ...... so where does Pakistan go from here ....... it is in their interest that they take actions against "elements" within Pakistan ... time for blaming it on media is over ......

So no direct quote? Well I guess you're a liar then.

Re: Terror attack in Mumbai, Hotel Oberoi under siege

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