Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
C1, the original poster stated that he wish “Mohammad :saw: was the role model for world economies.”
So antibol has broken down the flaws of the economic model of Mohamaads day when people try and put it into practice in the present, what’s wrong with that?
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
really? when and where?
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
In his story about cars. Did he go into how the economic model of Mohammad’s day works? No, but through his story he broke down the flaws or rather the flaw that people exhibit when they try and say that the economic model of Mohammad’s day is what we need today, and that is they don't know what the model is themselves, they offer a solution with no answer.
But this flaw goes beyond economics, it's the blind loyalty of accepting that something is right because the prophet practice it or used it 1000 years ago. I’ve never been a fan of idolization.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
^ and you really fell for it? 
I thought you can do better, you are just another disappointment like antiobl.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
Brother Omair,
There's a very famous saying about Capitalism. I don't know exactly but here's what it means in short:
** "Capitalism is the worst economic system but the best one we have yet."**
In other words, it's the worst economic system but we don't have any alternative to this. It would be better to get some thing "worse" than "the worst." Would you not agree?
Umer
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
However this bearded guy refuses to accept the car designs.
He insists that the design that existed 1000 years ago was the best. All these new designs are "Bidaa" (new and hence bad) things. These cars go too fast, so they kill people. These cars have a back seat where young people commit sin. So all new cars are bad. Only Islamic design is the best.
So people say, but 1000 years ago internal combustion engine didn't exist. The Mullah replies, well read Quran and Hadis, everything including IC engines, and turbines are in there.
So people say, where in Quran? He says learn Arabic first and then you will know where.
Finally the Mullah becomes agitated due to all these questions. He accuses everyone of blasphemy, and threatens to shoot every one. The auto show people call the police and kick him out.
p.s. there is a second part of the story that will come later. However if you are really dying to hear what happened to the Mullah. Then read the saga of confession-then-retraction of Mouse-Moussavi.
You have only one thing correct here, which is Mullahs talk of Islamic Economic system ... other than that your argument is lopsided.
What I do agree and say is that we do not need these Mullahs planning our economic system because they have no insight into how todays economics is working. We don't even need Mullahs to explain how Zakat is to be levied and dealt with. Its very clear from the Quranic and Hadith texts what principles need to be followed when building an economic system based on the principles of Zakat. Educated Mullahs who did not become Mullahs because they had no other choice or were complete failures in life need to come up with proper alternatives.
As for Capatalism, in Islam there is nothing that prevents a person to accumulate wealth via honest and intelligent means. However with in Islam with wealth comes responsibility for eradicating poverty and giving your due share as Allah as prescribed. Not like todays Capatalist, more, more and more and nothing for others. The issue with todays Capatalism is that those in the higher wealth brackets are not proprtionately taxed compared to those in the lower income brackets. If the Islamic principle of Zakat were introduced then they would be paying huge amounts of money to the state yet still stay rich. However when you have money you don't like to let it go. Herein lies the basic difference between how Muslims and Non-muslims think about there assetts. Muslims do not fear letting go of it because they know there is a next life which is worth more and to get the better of that you need to sacrifice in this world whereas Non-muslims (at least of today) tend to hold on to what they have in this world because that is what is dearest to them. Their concepts of afterlife have faded away. They are blind to the greatest tradeoff in this life to the next. You will never be on the same page as a muslim since we have totally different perspectives about God and Afterlife.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
You are trying to compare a very primitive, outdated, and outmoded system with modern economic systems. That's very much like "Mullah-hujra-talk" about money.
Back in the time of 1000 years ago, there was no taxation department, and very little paper (or tree-bark, or leather-parchment) work. So the taxation was limited to some zakat thingy, and some city taxes that you paid when you brought in your goods for sale within the faseel (boundary walls) of the city.
However Arab conquests, and resulting Maal-e-Ghanimat (looting of occupied territory) were the main source that filled Bait-al-Maal (governments treasury). And Maal-e-Ghanimat was truly responsible for alleviating Arab poverty.
BTW Maal-e-Ghanimat's Islamic concept was used over and over in the times of Ummayas, Abbasis, Ottomans, and then Europeans. So even today if you want to fill your treasury, send your troops overseas and then see your Bait-al-Maal fill with $$ (and if you like, even women).
Zakat or any other Islamic tax system does not address the industrial development. How do you account and tax the shares, the bank loans (oops that is kullo-haraam), raw material, local vs. exported consumptions. For all these steps, you have to learn and implement the system as used by the Western countries. Rich do have higher income taxes than the poor people in the West. The difference is that Rich people “invest” in tax-free or tax-deferred schemes thereby reducing their tax burden. So quit harping on street lingo about tax the rich stuff. Just look it up the tax code of US or Canada.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
Arabs never indulged in trading, they were always looters, I wonder what Prophet PBUH did for Hazrat Khadija RA, what were those people into 
“Islamic tax system” didn’t address those issues because there were no “industries” in those times of these scales, there were mom n pops businnesses (lets just say “skills”, rather than “business”) . Even in “western” system there were no such system 1400 years ago. There are several reasons behind for almost everything.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
You sound much older than 1400 years honestly. Who said Zakat is a system. I emphasized many times these are principles that need to preserved in whatever economic system Islamic nations choose to implement.
Exactly, however perspectives about money and its uses never change throughout time. Money still buys the toilet paper that you probably use to wipe your mouth clean. We're accustomed to washing. Zakat was levied on every broad category of material that was traded in that time. Trade was conducted within the boundary walls of population back then as it is now only that we are occupying more area now. Instead of little cities now we occupy more sizable cities and countries. I dont see any relevance in your argument.
BTW Maal-e-Ghanimat's Islamic concept was used over and over in the times of Ummayas, Abbasis, Ottomans, and then Europeans. So even today if you want to fill your treasury, send your troops overseas and then see your Bait-al-Maal fill with $$ (and if you like, even women).
And that does not happen today. The major reason for going to war is either to defend yourself or reap the economic benefits from it incase you forgot what Imperialism is defined to be. You colonize to use other countries resources for your own good. The same mantra lies underneath todays wars. Look at Iraq first they detroy it now they have their firms rebuilding it and winning all the reconstruction contracts. Now of course they are not getting paid in barley and wheat. They are getting dollars dipped in oil. In Islam we don't go plunder other countries to reap economic which western and european countries are doing now.
And these tax-defered schemes are only meant for the rich. You need a pretty huge capital to invest in them, which poor people can't afford. If you live in USA let me enlighten you that after your income hits $85K or some other number I am not certain how much it is right now they stop deducting social security tax from it. Now why should somebody earning such a huge amount of money be exempt from it. Let me think so they can live in luxury and poor people make a living by shoveling haystacks. This is just one example. Explain to me why should I pay tax on trade items when I am already paying for their profits. Tariffs could be blended into profits. If you don't like to price find another provider then. This is called Free trade, I will agree if you say this is a western or european concept however if freed from the trade wars it is not against Islam because a trader can ask for a reasonable profit. If he expliots then that is wrong (which is what happens when we slap tariffs).
I think you must have been assaulted by some so-called Mullah in your childhood which is why you are so repugnant to the word.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
Getting antsy? aren't we?
BTW, most of trade done by our Messenger pbuh on behalf of Hazrat Khadija occurred before the advent of Islam.
Still the size of the trade was minuscule compared to today's standards. Arab caravans of those days were more like tribal Khans (or donkey cart subzi wala) of today who carry little items on their back such as cloth, spices, or may be a garlic and onions. Nothing wrong with trading garlic and onion. However the scale and hence the concept of taxation is much smaller.
After the advent of Islam, big gains in Bait-al-Maal happened due to wars and not because few people paid zakat.
.......Even in "western" system there were no such system 1400 years ago. ...
Precisely why, Western systems are not hanging on to their 1400 years old stuff anymore.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
Antiobl:
Try to get through one train of thought without pulling out some tired label or proposed insult. I don’t know you, nor what you do for a living but I’m assuming you live in the US and a) have never been laid off in your life so a company could raise its stock price by $2, b) don’t know what’s it like to have to support a family without health care in a society that links well-being and worth to employment, c) feel that executive pay schedules are completely appropriate and not inexorbitant and d) are part of the mechanic that is sucking the middle class dry. Why have real wages basically not moved in the past ten years while inflation has ballooned? Why do Amerians have record debt, including credit cards and maxed out second mortgages? Why has the cost of education gotten out of control? Why are large corporations raking in profits while more and more people are working longer hours and it is the norm to have a two income family? Do you know what quality of life means?
I have a label for you too: Clueless Apologist. If you think I don’t know what I’m talking about, I am getting an MBA in the United States from one of the top ten Finance programs in the world and believe in free markets. But I also question society around me and believe in improving the system. I DON’T just feed out the garbage that is force fed to me.
This is too involved and heated an argument to settle over a message board, perhaps a few pots of tea would settle this. In the end, there are more able and poetic defenders of pure capitalism than yourself; you do your own growth a disservice by blindly toting along.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
not me, I showed you that "Arabs" were doing business, the money wasn't just because of "war-booty", as far as baitul maal growth is concerned, when more areas are covered by one body what do you think is going to happen? funds evaporate? I am sure you can use some calculator to add "income" of surrounding regions and the result will be a BIGGER number which would then reflect the baitulmaal. Does it open your eyes and ears? I hope so.
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precisely why, Western systems are not hanging on to their 1400 years old stuff anymore.
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right, so can we, we can use the same "logic" (if you are familiar with that term) to extend laws and make them conforming to Islam, oh wait you started fuming at that term "Islam" already.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
Good for you that you will get an American degree ....
(that many aloo store residents have no clue about).
However it will be bad for your future company who may have you running their finances.
So good luck finding a job.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
[QUOTE]
However Arab conquests, and resulting Maal-e-Ghanimat (looting of occupied territory) were the main source that filled Bait-al-Maal (governments treasury). And Maal-e-Ghanimat was truly responsible for alleviating Arab poverty.
BTW Maal-e-Ghanimat's Islamic concept was used over and over in the times of Ummayas, Abbasis, Ottomans, and then Europeans. So even today if you want to fill your treasury, send your troops overseas and then see your Bait-al-Maal fill with $$ (and if you like, even women).
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Firstly, why must you keep ridiculing arabs?
Secondly, what is wrong with this? Its an excellent way to achieve dominance over neighbouring tribes.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
Being a self-hating Muslim, good luck coming to terms with all the anger that you are obviously struggling with. And coming to terms with the brown skin you have, saala Uncle Tom. And I’ve already got more than a few jobs lined up and luckily nobody in business school/interviews I met was at idiotic/bull headed as you are; some professors had high things to say about Islamic provisions for loan guarantees and entrepreneurship, more than anything your self-hating butt could ever know. Your self-righteousness is pretty sad. And FYI just because you have a finance concentration doesn’t necessarily mean you will be “running finances for a company” LOL, you’re pretty clueless. It’s better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
Your seondly is "exactly" my point. No one ridicules Arabs, if they themselves are hell bent on being a tamasha (stage act).
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
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Your seondly is "exactly" my point. No one ridicules Arabs, if they themselves are hell bent on being a tamasha (stage act).
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Firstly, why must you keep ridiculing us arabs?
Secondly, you still haven't pointed out whats wrong with this practice.
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
What is there not to ridicule about Arabs?
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
Who cares what happens twenty years from now...Whether the forests are wiped out, whether there is a ozone depletion and cancer is rampant, whether the rivers and oceans become poisoned, whether the air is toxic...
I am a capitalist and I live for the moment...Right now, I have have eveything and now I want more...
Re: Ten Reasons Why Capitalism Sucks!!!
I guess the same things as Hindus, right?
Burnt any brides lately?