How much fun would both boys and girls have at a party where a parent will possibly be in the room supervising at all times? I don’t think it’d be much fun. And this is a point Mirch’s daughter needs to consider. And I have taught middle school kids, so I’ve a good idea of the kind of interactions b/w the boys and girls…the glances, the cheesy kheekheekhee giggling, twirling of hair and rolling of eyes, the teasing and flirting even when the interest is not reciprocated. Heck you can even see a bit of this in the classroom, not just during break and in the hallways in between classes. Schools still provide a little more wiggle room for those raging hormones than Mirch’s home would. So, I can understand why Mirch and his wife don’t feel comfortable encouraging such mingling.
And if her male friends are non-Muslim, they may not understand why Papa Mirch is watching them like a hawk in what they hoped would be a “cool” birthday party. And they (the kids) might complain about it being so uncool. Y’know kids and their tendency to sometimes gossip worse than the aunti folk. Seriously, she’s better off doing an all-girls party.
Usually desi parents keep away from non-desi parents - there is little integration and little trust. However, the same does not apply to the children ... as they grow up together they create natural human bonds and want to extend them in activities such as sleepovers ... It presents a big dilemma to desi parents.
On hindsight I would recommend desi parents either to mix more with good non-desi families or to find good desi families in which their children can create bonds with their children ... My own parents live in a desi area in London. It was not hard for them to mix more closely with desi families with daughters so my sisters could befriend them.
I could not suggest anything because the society in US is very strong - the peer pressure and expectations to conform on the kids are very high. @Mirch ... Puppies ... I think the worst part of a puppy is their constant attention seeking and smelly breath and hair around the place ... Your house will not stop smelling of puppy saliva ... There may be some dog pounds in your area - why not take your daughter to visit the pound every few weeks, play with a puppy and go home empty handed ... she will soon get a feel for them and the responsibility and learn the cons ... I think it is a passing phase. It is easier to just go an play and pat and walk a dog without owning one ... find out how she might be able to help the local pound with their dog walks.
but imho, inviting boys to a bday party shouldnt be an issue. i mean you or your begum will be there right?
it may even show your daughter that you will allow her to.do things, within reason. sleep overs are a no no but bday parties are ok... creating some balance??
we werent allowed sleep overs.... not even with cousins.
but we were allowed mixed bdays since we had friends.if.bith genders fro.school and wanted.them to.share.in on our special day....
trust me... it wont last... by the.time.she.is.16-17 she wont even want a big party.... just some.of her closest gal pals.
until then.. i dont see any harm in supervised mixed gatherings. :)
No sleepover in my family. We were not allowed and recently my daughter staying overnight at a friends /relatives house (they live a street away and their daughter is same age as my daughter)back street. I wasnt happy but baji insisted so much so I had to let my daughter stayover. Next morning my dad heard abou sleepover and he was very angry at me for letting her sleep at their place:(
TLK, besides the angels entering a dwelling which houses a dog bit, dogs sliva is najis so you can't let your dog lick you [which is a dog's favourite activity]. you can't pray with any saliva present on your body or on your clothing.
if you restrict contact with your dog and keep him in a doghouse in your backyard, it should be fine.
a seeing dog or dogs for security purposes are exempt from this ruling.
Can you provide an authentic reference for this ruling. I have not come across one but I have also heard it all my life and that is why I am opposed to interacting with a dog as intimately as having a dog as a pet demands.
Can you provide an authentic reference for this ruling. I have not come across one but I have also heard it all my life and that is why I am opposed to interacting with a dog as intimately as having a dog as a pet demands.
i'm sorry i can not provide any references because i have no resources available to me. i hate Google-ing.
I was born and raised in the US and was not allowed to sleep over at school friends' homes either. Only a few very close Pakistani family friends' homes and even those were limited. It's great for you to allow her to have her friends over, but note that some parents will not like that you don't trust them, but expect them to trust you. I hated the no sleep over rule as a child, but I will enforce it for my own children. It's not really even about not trusting the parents, as so far we have befriended the parents as well. It's also about realizing that too much time together can often give kids the opportunity to get into trouble, depending on the types of conversations/dares that often come up.
I would let her invite boys to a party that you are chaperoning.
I'm just wondering..y do you guys think sleepovers are a bad idea
I always use this analogy:
Evening news (from way back when): Usually substantive highlights of important/relevant events.
24 hour news: filled with trash, drama, and little substance in an effort to fill time and make money.
I surround myself with libro-conservative desi folks. It is still taboo with them for a girl to invite boys to her parties. *If it is a family party then I do not mind *, if it is party to which only her friends are invited I cannot afford for my daughter or my family to be part of community gossip. I hope You understand what I am trying to say. :)
I don't have any kids but I remember very clearly what it was like to be a teen. Anyway, yes, I understand that your objection to her having boys at a party where it's just her and her friends is purely due to the potential community gossip. Having said that….why not allow your daughter to decide what type of party she wants? There many be things which you are not willing to negotiate at all. Your answer should be a firm "no" to those requests. But things like this where is really is a bit of flexibility….open it up for discussion.
My 2 cents is that BEFORE your daughter brings it up again on her own (since you laughed it off last time she asked)….you & wifey have a private chat where you two agree on this….and then let you daughter know ahead of time that she can either (1) Have a party with her female friends only; or (2) Have a family party where she is allowed to invite boys. Its HER choice. Right now your daughter probably feels like she has 0 control and no matter what she asks, the answer is "no". At least with certain situations, I think it would be beneficial to give her options and let HER choose what she would prefer (ie. showing her that you & wifey are not inflexible & are open to giving her what she wants under certain conditions). I totally understand you wanting to protect her b/c she's young….but she also needs to learn to make choices/compromises etc. I think situations like this would be a great teaching tool which forces her to think about/decide what really matters to her when it comes to her "social wants" and what she's willing to compromise to get it.
BTW, would you allow her to attend a bday party where boys are invited (and it's not a "family" party)? I ask b/c if she has non-Muslim/non-desi friends…..this is what's coming next. :D
As for the sleepover, I'm once again not sure what you're afraid of. Is it the community gossip? She's 14…not 4. I completely understand not allowing her to spend the night at a house where there are other teenage boys (ie. if her friend has a brother). But if the ONLY man in the house is the friend's father….and she's sharing a room with her friend for the night with the mother inside the house….do you truly believe this puts her in a position to be sexually assaulted/raped? Will it make a difference if the sleepover is with a group of girls (as opposed to just 1 friend & her) in a house where the ONLY man is the father?
Reading your story kind of took me back to my own parents stresses in raising us in Canada. I remember I wasn't allowed any sleepovers - but my parents had no problem with letting me invite 1 or 2 girls over to our house. My mom just didn't want me spending the night at someone else's, and all my friends at that time were non-desi. They were nice girls from good families but our home routine was different and my mom was very overprotective as every parent is.
I think the best course of action would be for you and your wife to sit her down and just explain your worries. And reach a reasonable compromise. Maybe allow her to have a small group of girls or her girl cousins over to your place. Or if that's not an option for your wife - then tell her "we're not comfortable with the sleepover idea, but how about a fun activity we do as a family" and let her pick something she would enjoy. She might complain now but as she gets older, she'll understand where you guys were coming from.
I understand the no boys at birthday parties, especially if it's a party where you will have your relatives present as most do come. Maybe hold a small get together - like in the backyard or even at a restaurant for her to invite her classmates, which will be supervised, and end shortly.
With the puppy situation, I think you can take her to a kennel or a place where she can even rent a dog for a day. Allow her to understand that it's a big responsibility and that while she will be in school, someone has to always take care of the puppy. Maybe even get her a smaller pet - like a fish maybe? And reach a fair compromise and tell her you'll see how responsible she is with feeding it, etc and take it from there.
But above all, I know as a parent of a child growing up in the West it's very hard to maintain a good balance between our culture and the culture in the West. Some things are very difficult to understand. I'm smiling as I type this because I realize now that my mom was right in so many aspects. I was born and raised in Toronto but I can understand your predicament. I think your daughter will as well, she just needs time. I would just say - give her as much space as you both feel comfortable, but also if she's not a bad kid, she's good in school, has earned your trust, etc. then don't also be unreasonably strict on her. I think it's just a give and take. I would also suggest that your wife try harder to maintain a friendship with her. If she has a close bond with your wife, they can do the girly things that girls at those ages desire and she will also open up to her with time and form a trust. I think that's very important. There were many times as a teen where I would ditch my friends to hang out with my mom instead. It can happen, your wife just needs to think at the level of your daughter. :)
My kids are not allowed sleepovers ( we are in the US). I was raised in Pakistan and had no sleepovers either. However, people came to our house as I didn't have any brothers. I had tons of pets growing up including dogs but it was easier in Pakistan due to domestic help. I have only allowed them to keep fish.
I have tons of desi friends and go out of the way to arrange play dates with their kids for my kids, with non desis too but more desi now that they are growing up, MA. They notice these efforts and it does shut them up a little.
My daughter is turning 14 this year.
She is pretty good kid.
Two things we always have discussion about:
1. Sleepovers at other people's homes.
2. She wants a puppy.
On the first point, we live in US therefore we cannot trust anybody since we do not know anybody so intimately. I although allow if any of her friends comes over for a sleepovers. She knows that I am not opposed to that but I and her mother are opposed to the idea of her sleeping over at any friend's house.
I even told her that if there is no man in the house of any friend of her than it is possible.
I have told her that I am paranoid and her mother is strictly opposed to the idea.
I have told her that she will thank me one day when she would have a daughter to teach her that there are some limits which should not be crossed.
On the puppy issue. I do not have anything against pets but her mother has phobia against cats and dogs as pets. We are Muslims and have this things against being too affectionate with dogs. We were not raised to love dogs as Westerners do.
Last time we had this argument I told her that if she stops asking for a puppy I would enroll her for guitar lessons. She has been asking for those for a long time so she accepted that offer and now she is learning to play guitar.
But still she would occasionally hint about her love for a puppy.
She does not accept the offer to have some other pet , a cockatoo or some other pretty bird, bunny , guinea pig, fish aquarium etc.
The other day she asked me that if she could invite boys from her class to her birthday party. I laughed it off, but I am sure her mother would faint if she asks the same question to her.
So give me some counter arguments I can use to make her lose these battles forever. :)
So if her friends may have come over for sleep-over? Where did you go? Did you leave for the night/weekend?
So if her friends may have come over for sleep-over? Where did you go? Did you leave for the night/weekend?
LOL, I never thought of that, you opened my eyes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
No more sleepovers ever.
So tell me now what should I tell my daughter about this new policy? How do I convince her?
I appreciate help and insight from those who participated in this thread and provided valuable advise, guidance and insights in how a teenager's mind works.