Teach what you preach!!

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

It drives me nuts when people teach one thing and do the total opposite when it comes down to religion. I mean one should teach what is right and if they teach others what is right then they should start from themselves.

I had a recent experience where I went to the house of a family friend. She had a cousin over from out of state. This cousin of hers started talking about Islam and the thing was that she was acting as if she was the only one who knew Islam best. Talked over and over about how she was in tableegh and dawa. Which was good. But the woman had no manners what so ever. She kept cutting everyone off. Didn’t have the patience to listen to anyone but herself. And the next day I run into her a grocery store, and she didn’t even have the nerve answer Salam! Can you believe it? I mean why is it that all these people who pretend like only they know Islam best lack general manners. And they are the ones who are completely off track.

2

hain chamak tere zabin par, zara dil bhi dekh zahid
jo jagah hain roshani ki, wahan roshani nahin hain!

3

Islam is a great religion, its muslims who are not great followers.

thats a statement I read a while back and I agree fully.

My arguments with a number of people centre around the niyyat of an act and following the essence of islam.

There are too many people who say islam islam all the time but dont get close to what a good muslim should be like in his/her behaviour and attitude.

This factor, further fueled by the holier than thou attitude always puts me off.

I recall back in undergrad some tableeghi jamat was over and they were at a pal's apartment. I went by to say salam and to talk to them and this dewd shoots "kalmah parrhain" I asked what he had asked and he is just "kalma parrhain" or he was not going to talk to me. To this day I dont know his intent behind it but the tone and attitude was very bossy.

The holier than thou, book slammin', banner wavin' johnny come lately religeous authorities were never my bag, whatever religion, sect or country they represented.

4

It is also my personal experience that those who get too deep into religion tend to view the world as an impure place with everything wrong with it. They get on my nerves like nobody’s business, and I make sure that I drive them home and shove them back to the place that makes them so narrow minded. This type of outlook is not unique to just one religion, but all religious fundamentalist groups exhibit the same inequidistant view of the world. It is either "right" ”or "wrong" , with nothing in between. How silly.

The only way (this is my personal opinion) to deal with such arrogance is to stay firm with what you believe in, just as the ones who are so stern about shoving their views on you. Don’t let them get the best of you by getting angry. They would achieve their pathetic purpose by getting you irritated. Just laugh them out.

5

A Deeni Knowledge

Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The noblest charity is that a Muslim acquires some knowledge (of the Deen) then imparts it to a brother Muslim."
(Ibn Majah).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Maulana Mohammad Ali Thanvi).

Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "no one has given his children anything better than adab (which in this context refers to Denni knowledge)."
(Tirmidhi, Baihaqi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Maulana Mohammad Ali Thanvi).

Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "O Abu Zarr (a Sahaabi) if you go anywhere to learn one ayaat of the Qur'aan, it is better for you than a hundred rakaats (Nafal) Salaat; if you go anywhere to acquire one law of the knowledge (of Deen), it is better for you than performing a thousand rakaats (Nafal) Salaat, irrespective of whether you practised on it (the knowledge) or not."
(Ibn Majah).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Maulana Mohammad Ali Thanvi).

TAKING SPECIAL CARE TO FULFIL THE RIGHTS OF MUSLIMS

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "On the Day of Qiyaamah, the one in the vilest of conditions will be a two-faced person. He says one thing (in favour) of one person and then another thing (in regard to the same affair) to another person."
(Bukhari, Muslim).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Sufyaan Ibn As'ad Khadrami (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that he heard Muhammad (peace be upon him) say: "Indeed it is an act of the greatest abuse of trust if you tell a Muslim brother something which is false while he believes that you are telling him the truth."
(Abu Dawud).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Muaaz (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Whoever taunts a brother (Muslim) with a sin (which the Muslim has committed), will not die until he (the taunter) commits the same sin."
(Tirmidhi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Abdur Rahman Ibn Ghanam and Asma Bint Yazeed (Allah be pleased with them) narrate that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The worst among the servants of Allah are those who gossip and create rifts between friends."
(Tirmidhi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Ibn Abbaas (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Do not unnecessarily dispute with a brother (Muslim) nor joke with him in such a way which displeases him. Do not promise him something which you cannot fulfil."
(Tirmidhi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Zaid bin Arqam (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that according to Muhammad (peace be upon him) one who has the intention of fulfilling a promise but fails because of some real reason is not guilty of sin.
(Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Despising a Muslim is a sufficient evil in a man."
(Muslim).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

All things of a Muslim are sacred and to be honoured by other Muslims. His life, property and honour must be respected.
(Muslim).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Every man is a mirror to his brother (Muslim)."
(Tirmidhi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "A Mu'min (Believer) is the repository of love. There is no goodness in a man who does not have love for anyone nor does anyone love him."
(Ahmad, Baihaqi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Anas (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "He who fulfils a need of a person in order to give him pleasure, has given me pleasure; whoever has given me pleasure has given Allah pleasure, He will give him Jannat."
(Baihaqi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Anas (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Seventy three acts of pardon (Maghfirat) are recorded for a person who aids a man in difficulty. Of these (seventy three pardons) one is sufficient for the rectification of all his affairs. The other seventy two will serve as means for the acquisition of lofty stages in the Aakhirah."
(Baihaqi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Whenever a Muslim visits a sick brother (Muslim) or merely goes to meet his brother, then Allah says: 'You are holy; your walking is holy; you have arranged your abode in Jannat.'"
(Tirmidhi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Abu Ayyub Ansaari (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "It is not lawful for a Muslim to sever his ties with another Muslim for more than three days, in such a way that when they meet, the one who turns his face one way and the one other turns his face the other way. The better of these two is the one who makes Salaam first."
(Bukhari, Muslim).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "refrain from suspicion. The worst of lies is suspicion (thinking ill of others on mere supposition). Do not pry into the private affairs of others. Do not bid a higher price (for any object of sale) with the intention to deceive (and not to buy). Do not have jealousy for one another nor entertain malice for each other. Do not scandal (gheebat). Fear Allah! All servants (of Allah) should live like brothers."
(Bukhari, Muslim).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

Hadhrat Abu Bakr Siddique (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "A man who harms any Muslim and deceives him, is accursed."
(Tirmidhi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Mohammad Ashraf Ali Thanvi).

It is not a matter of "holier than thou...it is :)
KNOWLEDGE WILL FOREVER GOVERN THE IGNORANCE, THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE THEIR OWN GOVERNOR MUST ARM THEMSELVES WITH THE POWER WHICH KNOWLEDGE GIVES :)

6

[quote]
Originally posted by Rarediamonds & Gold:
**It drives me nuts when people teach one thing and do the total opposite when it comes down to religion. I mean one should teach what is right and if they teach others what is right then they should start from themselves.

I had a recent experience where I went to the house of a family friend. She had a cousin over from out of state. This cousin of hers started talking about Islam and the thing was that she was acting as if she was the only one who knew Islam best. Talked over and over about how she was in tableegh and dawa. Which was good. But the woman had no manners what so ever. She kept cutting everyone off. Didn't have the patience to listen to anyone but herself. And the next day I run into her a grocery store, and she didn't even have the nerve answer Salam! Can you believe it? I mean why is it that all these people who pretend like only they know Islam best lack general manners. And they are the ones who are completely off track.**
[/quote]

Question: How stupid are you?

You started your crap with plural against people at large.

You mentioned an example of an individual behavior, which does not represents practice, conduct, or behavior of majority or people at large in your verbal diarrhea. Later you criticized the faith and people's faith. I hope letting it out help you feel better. Can you tell me how your stupidity constitutes or represents Islamic behavior? Man I am stupid; I started a discussion on bullshit for self glorification and self appreciation, which may not be true at all. ** I must have (ADHD) Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder. I should get some professional help.

Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

[This message has been edited by Bubble Buster (edited March 28, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by X2 (edited March 29, 2000).]

7

[quote]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
**It is also my personal experience that those who get too deep into religion tend to view the world as an impure place with everything wrong with it. They get on my nerves like nobody’s business, and I make sure that I drive them home and shove them back to the place that makes them so narrow minded. This type of outlook is not unique to just one religion, but all religious fundamentalist groups exhibit the same inequidistant view of the world. It is either "right" ”or "wrong" , with nothing in between. How silly.

The only way (this is my personal opinion) to deal with such arrogance is to stay firm with what you believe in, just as the ones who are so stern about shoving their views on you. Don’t let them get the best of you by getting angry. They would achieve their pathetic purpose by getting you irritated. Just laugh them out. **
[/quote]

Enough about your bullshit personal exprience. Let us talk about my real personal exprience with the PT master in high school. Thats how I became the Captain of cricket team without scoring. The only one who scored was my PT master.

Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

[This message has been edited by Bubble Buster (edited March 28, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by X2 (edited March 29, 2000).]

8

[quote]
Originally posted by Fraudz:
**Islam is a great religion, its muslims who are not great followers.

thats a statement I read a while back and I agree fully.

My arguments with a number of people centre around the niyyat of an act and following the essence of islam.

There are too many people who say islam islam all the time but dont get close to what a good muslim should be like in his/her behaviour and attitude.

This factor, further fueled by the holier than thou attitude always puts me off.

I recall back in undergrad some tableeghi jamat was over and they were at a pal's apartment. I went by to say salam and to talk to them and this dewd shoots "kalmah parrhain" I asked what he had asked and he is just "kalma parrhain" or he was not going to talk to me. To this day I dont know his intent behind it but the tone and attitude was very bossy.

The holier than thou, book slammin', banner wavin' johnny come lately religeous authorities were never my bag, whatever religion, sect or country they represented.

**
[/quote]

WHO IS THE JUDGE?
wHO IS MAKING THE RULES?

How about knowledgeable than thou? Why are you on defensive? Or it is some kind of fraud?

Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

9

Dear Bubly,

My PT master was a haji and 5-time nimazi. Do you think that scoring is allowed in Islam? Any Hadiths to support that? Baby you get so excited about talking crap, it is so funny. I can’t stop laughing after I read your wise words. You should use (zair, zabar, pesh) like your uncle refrigerator, to make your points clearer.

[This message has been edited by X2 (edited March 29, 2000).]

10

Hi BB Salaam :)

I doubt that we can find any worthy knowledgeable opponent here or even a friend with knowledge. All I see is frozen brains which cannot be defrosted.

Islaam Is The *ONLY Solution :)*****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers]. Noble Quran 3:85*

[This message has been edited by Irrefragable (edited March 29, 2000).]

11

What does islam say about being humble and modest?

Oh sure, I never claimed myself to be an authority on islam, or even close to it. I do feel that people should be honest with themselves and have the right niyyah.

One has to lead by example.

You 2 seem to have access to a lot of information on islam. Please keep sharing it. There are many people like myself who learn from it.

12

Yeah I have some incidents I like to share with you guys.
But why bother mentioning those incidents, lets see what our ** KNOWLEDGEABLES ** and authority on Islam doing.

Mr Refr... Quoted some Hadith

**
Hadhrat Ibn Abbaas (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace be
upon him) said: "Do not unnecessarily dispute with a brother (Muslim) nor joke with
him in such a way which displeases him. Do not promise him something which you
cannot fulfil."
**

**
Hadhrat Sufyaan Ibn As'ad Khadrami (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that he
heard Muhammad (peace be upon him) say: "Indeed it is an act of the greatest
abuse of trust if you tell a Muslim brother something which is false while he believes
that you are telling him the truth."
(Abu Dawud).
**

**
Hadhrat Abu Bakr Siddique (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad
(peace be upon him) said: "A man who harms any Muslim and deceives him, is
accursed."
(Tirmidhi).
**

**
Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that Muhammad (peace
be upon him) said: "refrain from suspicion. The worst of lies is suspicion (thinking ill
of others on mere supposition). Do not pry into the private affairs of others. Do not
bid a higher price (for any object of sale) with the intention to deceive (and not to
buy). Do not have jealousy for one another nor entertain malice for each other. Do
not scandal (gheebat). Fear Allah! All servants (of Allah) should live like brothers."
(Bukhari, Muslim).
**

Now read above Hadiths and see the behavier of these two ALLAMA or ** ULLAMAS **

BB said
**
Enough about your bullshit personal exprience. Let us talk about my real personal
exprience with the PT master in high school. Thats how I became the Captain of
cricket team without scoring. The only one who scored was my PT master.
**

And Mr REF...

**
I doubt that we can find any worthy knowledgeable opponent here or even a friend
with knowledge. All I see is frozen brains which cannot be defrosted.
**

Well guys that's not the way you were told to teach other peoples. Well what did Illama Iqbal said Something like 

EN KO DEKH KAR SHERMAI JEWS

I have to go and DEFROST my brain, if you guys need any help let me now or you are beyond help. Next time read the Hadith carefully before you CUT/PAST it here.

RUB RAKHA

13

Originally posted by Bubble Buster:

Question: How stupid are you?

You started your crap with plural against people at large.

You mentioned an example of an individual behavior, which does not represents practice, conduct, or behavior of majority or people at large in your verbal diarrhea. better. Can you tell me how your stupidity constitutes or represents Islamic behavior? Man I am stupid; I started a discussion on bullshit for self glorification and self Later you criticized the faith and people's faith. I hope letting it out help you feel appreciation, which may not be true at all. I must have (ADHD) Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder. I should get some professional help.

Well Well Bubble Buster, it's people like you exactly whom I am talking about. You know that attitude of yours "I know more than thou" is really gonna take you down.

Posted by Bubble Buster:

You mentioned an example of an individual behavior, which does not represents practice, conduct, or behavior of majority or people at large in your verbal diarrhea

Well you have represented it. And there are lots more like you out there. UNFORTUNATELY

Posted by Bubble Buster:

Later you criticized the faith and people's faith.

No where in my post did anywhere I criticize the faith or People's faith. You are the one who is doing it here on this forum.

Niyyat is a very big thing in Islam. If you make niyyat to pray Tahajud and you miss Tahajud, you will get reward of your niyyat. But ofcourse your ignorance probably doesn't allow you to understand that. Let me just tell you one thing. My whole point here was that ANYONE (and I did not stereotype people in any way) who teaches about Islam should preach it first. Before you raise your fingers at others perhaps you should look in your own frontyard and see what's going on there. And drop this ignorance. If you had a fight with your sibling or boyfriend/girlfriend take it out somewhere else. This ain't the place to take out your anger. And do something about that ignorance of yours. Get some Islamic knowledge. There are lots of Madarsas who offer their help for people like yourself.

14

Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The noblest charity is that a Muslim acquires some knowledge (of the Deen) then imparts it to a brother Muslim."
(Ibn Majah).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Maulana Mohammad Ali Thanvi).

Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "no one has given his children anything better than adab (which in this context refers to Denni knowledge)."
(Tirmidhi, Baihaqi).
(Hayaat-ul-Muslimeen. by Maulana Mohammad Ali Thanvi).

Apparently you lack both of these qualities.
And keep in mind that Islam is a deen of Niyyat and fitrat. Allah doesn't burden you with more than you can take. Before you carry out your actions you will get reward for niyyat. And please before you go barging in on people and barking at them, learn english first so that you can understand what someone is trying to say and then open your mouth. If you can't say anything nice. Then it's better not to say anything at all.

15

I am glad that the point I was trying to deliver got an example in your form. Now any one with a bit of sense can understand what I was trying to say in the first place to begin with.

16

TO ALL Theologians on this forum:

When BB and I came on this board we clearly introduced ourselves that we are pure Sunni Muslims. We did ask others faith (a) directly and about all. Since almost same rhetoric of almost all posters and many of the pseudonyms (nicknames) does not tell who is who?

So none of you is/are my or BB's brother unless you are a confirmed Muslim. If you are that stupid having a pseudo like johnd and you expect us to consider you our brother? :)You can KISSMASS :)

So copy and paste of our material and question/quote will not help you a bit.

Johndget a life moron. Check Noble Quran verse 16:126 before you open your mouth. You have copied and pasted some Hadeeth from my post, since when and how you became my brother? On this nameless and faceless forum one must prove himself/herself to be a real Muslim. So far y'all are not even close to that.

By the way respect you earn, it is not your birthright.

Irrefragable
Islaam Is The *ONLY Solution :)*****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers]. Noble Quran 3:85*

[This message has been edited by Irrefragable (edited March 29, 2000).]

17

Mr. IRREGULER,
U SAID
** You have copied and pasted some Hadeeth from my post, since when and
how you became my brother? **

When did I call you my brother.

** By the way respect you earn, it is not your birthright. **

Then why are you quoting all those Hadiths. Now go back and read your Hadiths agains and try to understand the message you delivered, Than write every single Hadiths 50 times, see if it helps you at all, if not than

ALLAH MALIK HAY TUMHARA.

And you about your friend, I don't know who busted his bubble.

CHOW
BYE BYE

18

And becarefull before you make fun of my name, it's after John The Baptist, Want to know who John The Bapist was.

19

Rare Diamond: you are absolutely right, well we are going through a time where everything is fake and materialistic. Take a bottle of milk and u will see so many impressive ingredients along with its original content. Same is the condition of today’s human soul. People try to impress (or depress) others by posing them as angles in disguise yet they know what they are up to. Alas there will be a day when we all stand side by side, face to face with all our deeds composed on pendant, hanging around our necks.... when milk is centrifuged from water.

Oh Johny! don’t worry honey, they are ‘baptized’ by some sardonic (wink wink). In ko khud apna nahin ilm, doosray ko kya janain gay. I cant say they are not Muslims, perhaps they have attained a full fledge diploma in “cut-n-paste-wal-Hadith-o-Quran” plus a supplementary extra credit course in “fanaticism-o-abusiveness”. I think they should also take some extensive online classes from

Buttster and Irrefrigable, are you guys genetically linked by any chance? Anyways I have a small small request for you guys, please have some ‘taqwa’ and have some respect. Don’t degrade us, we admit that we are not as perfect as you are, but at’least we are humans (only if you think so).

NYAhmadi jee I think it should be the other way round, that those who get too deep into religion tend to appreciate the world more. After all they are all blessings from Allah. I say, Fanatism and Extremism are opposite forms of a faith.

Pir Sahab, aap ki baat wazn kay lihaaz say bauhut maqool rang rakhtee hai.... “Islam is a great religion, its Muslims who are not great”

Oh I forgot, I left my brain in the microwave to thaw..... run dularay run before it evaporates.

chao!

[This message has been edited by r@@jdulara (edited March 30, 2000).]

20

[quote]
Originally posted by johnd:
And becarefull before you make fun of my name, it's after John The Baptist, Want to know who John The Bapist was.
[/quote]

Hey John the asshole :)

John the baptist was a prophet of God, in Islam he is known as Hazrat Yahya (as). According to bible he baptized Jesus (P). Which Quran does not states anywhere.

But what that has to do with punk like you? By the way I am a Sunni Muslim and I don't give a hoot to bible except in believeing in all books and messengers as part of my faith (Imaan-e-Mufassil). The universal message of Islam has abrogated all prior books and religions.

Read this Hadeeth (Agreed upon) carefully :)

Muhammad Ibn al-Alâ' told us that Ibn Numayr reported from Mujâlid from Ibn Aamir from Jâbir that Umar Ibn al-Khattâb brought a copy of the Torah to the Prophet(P) and said: "O Apostle of God, this is a copy of the Torah." But [the Prophet] kept silent. Then Umar started reading and the face of the Prophet kept changing. So, Abu Bakr interrupted him violently: "Don't you see the face of the Prophet(P)?" Umar looked at the Prophet's face and said "May God preserve me from His anger and from the anger of his Apostle(P), we accepted God as Lord and Islâm as religion and Muhammad as prophet." Then the Prophet(P) said: "By the One Who owns Muhammad's soul, if Moses(P) appeared to you and you followed him and left me, you would go astray from the right path and if he were alive and reached [the time of] my prophethood he would have followed me. "

Get some Islamic knowledge and education.

Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

[This message has been edited by Bubble Buster (edited March 30, 2000).]