So Jang and GEO are now under Nawaz’s payroll? Is there anyone apart from Musharraf and Altaf Hussain who isnt on NS’s payroll? The same articles come in Dawn and Nation too, they are also part of NS’s empire right?
Please dont refer to Shaukat Aziz as a darpook chooza! 
Well, first of all when a person says previous government than it means the one that preceded present government, not one before that. Previous government before present government was caretaker government, not Shaukat Aziz government.
As for what Musharraf said, the article mentions it under inverted comma. But as you can see, News did not put that statement in inverted comma. On the other hand, the actual statement of President that followed is unrelated. Hence, it shows that News has fabricated that statement and tried to give impression as if Musharraf has said that. Here is the statement: One in blue is what Musharraf said and not one in black, As both statements is part of same paragraph, it should be related but it is not. From article:
Hence, it is clear that Liars of ‘The News’ took Musharraf statement that … his policies and steps should be viewed in the backdrop of circumstances that existed in the country at a critical point in time in the past … as if Musharraf is saying that … he is not responsible for the economical crisis confronting the country and that previous government may be held responsible … even though both statements are completely unrelated.
Re: Taste of new government on economical front
Saleem, maybe Musharrafs under PML[N] payroll too
I never said that GEO lied and fabricated that statement to misguide people because they were on PML(N) payroll. GEO could be on PML(N) payroll, but who knows, GEO may have done that because they are retarded anti-Mush newspaper, or could be on CIA payroll, MI5 payroll, Musad payroll, or RAW payroll, though I could not accuse them of anything because I have no proof.
As for President, I have no doubt that he is on Pakistan government payroll, something I could not say about NS or Zardari.
I didnt know Geo was a newspaper, let alone retarded one
Haan bus Musharraf aur Altaf bhai hi hain joh halaal ki kamayi khatey hain na? Btw, what does Altaf Hussain do for a living in England again?
By previous govnt, did he mean the caretaker govnt or the previous previous govnt, i.e. shaukat?
Remember the thread where you said Shaukat probably doesn't want to come as there was suicide-bomb attack on him? The same thread was about Musharraf wanting Shaukat to come back and defend his actions/policies during his tenure, so Mush wasn't blaming "caretaker" govt.
Remember the thread where you said Shaukat probably doesn't want to come as there was suicide-bomb attack on him? The same thread was about Musharraf wanting Shaukat to come back and defend his actions/policies during his tenure, so Mush wasn't blaming "caretaker" govt.
That doesn't answer my question. I am relying on jang's reporting of an interview.
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=15440
From link posted by Spock, here is first para:
“ISLAMABAD: President Pervez Musharraf has said he had invited former prime minister Shaukat Aziz thrice to come back to the country and defend his much-criticised economic policies.”
Is there a Mush quote saying which govnt HE blamed the economic situation on?
Re: Taste of new government on economical front
Here (though not “Jang”):
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=288538
Brother, Musharraf never said that economic situation during Shaukat Aziz government was bad or blamed him for anything. He was referring to caretaker government. Anyhow, as for Musharraf asking Shaukat Aziz to come and explain the situation, it is the reason that many idiots in Pakistan could not see the obvious. Shaukat Aziz is not bothered because he knows that people who could not see the obvious, it is futile to explain them anything.
World is not full of idiots and a person has to be mental to think that performance over 8 years (1999-2007) was just on paper. We should know that most people earn their money hard way, not like Nawaz and Zardari (or many of their die-hard supporters) who did not earned a single penny in life halal way but being crooks, they only stole other people’s money, so for them, economy means nothing. When people invest their money, they think a lot and do all sort of research to invest, be that within country or abroad. During last 8 years while Shaukat Aziz was managing Pakistani economy, Pakistan did not only see huge growth but plenty of foreign investments (FDI). It means that all those investments that Pakistan attracted, it was not fluke but it was because people who invested knew that Pakistan is developing and growing very fast. They saw the growth, they trusted Shaukat Aziz and believed that Pakistan economy is worth investing, and then only they put their hard earned money in Pakistan. Else, people may give their money to their brother as gift, but would not invest even in their brother’s business if they think that the business is not worth investing and that they would lose their investment.
One should know that Pakistani currency was stable at Rs 60 to a dollar throughout 8 years while Shaukat Aziz was in-charge of Pakistani economy. If Pakistani economy was doing badly then it was impossible that Pakistani rupee would have stayed stable and foreign currency reserve of Pakistan would have increased from less than one billion dollars (Nov 1999) to 16.5 billion dollars (Oct 2007).
How unfortunate and miserable that since Shaukat Aziz left (early Nov 2007), crooks started stealing and mismanaging Pakistan economy, such that within last 8 months (mostly during last 4 months), Pakistan stock market lost 25 percent of its value, Pakistani debt gone up by around Rs 1000 billion, Pakistani Rupee devalued to Rs 73 per dollar, inflation gone up from less than 10 percent to 20 percent, foreign exchange reserves gone down to around $11 billion from $16.5 billion, investors have started running out of Pakistan in droves, plus people (Pakistani Nationals as well as foreigners) have started pulling their investment out of Pakistan, Karachi stock market capitalisation lost Rs 1125 billion (from Rs 4780 billion to Rs 3655 billion) … worse is that this is not the end as things are getting from bad to worse and fear is that things would look more deteriorated after next 100 days and even these figures would look good with respect to figures of that time.
You know what? One idiot supporter of NS told me that it does not matter if people take away their investments from Pakistan, as Pakistan does not need those investments … but for me it was obvious that for him, as long as NS is in power and he can get some bones from NS, he does not care for Pakistan.
One should know that Pakistani currency is free floating since 2001 and no country can effectively control the value of their currency unless economy is too strong. Well, it is easy to devalue currency but to keep a currency stable for long period, or make it appreciate in value, is impossible for any country. Only booming economy could experience that … appreciating or stable currency. Even UK could not keep Pound from devaluing. [Pakistan experienced appreciation of Pakistan currency in 1992/93 … even when currency was free floating].
In October 2007, last year of Shaukat Aziz, Pakistan had around 16.5 billion dollar reserves … that was an increase of around 16 billion dollars in 8 years of Shaukat Aziz incharge of Pakistani economy. In Nov 1999, Pakistan had less than 1 billion dollar reserves and was on verge of bankruptcy (had no dollars to service Pakistani dollar debt). 16 billion dollar increase in reserves was such that if Pakistan had returned every penny to USA what Pakistan received from USA after 9/11 in form of loans, grants related to war on terror and Kashmir earthquake, reimbursement of costs, costs of services, etc (total, it comes to less than $10 billion) … then still Pakistan would have been left with around $7 billion reserves. In Nov 1999, Pakistan had less than 1 billion dollar reserves and was on verge of bankruptcy (had no dollars to service Pakistani dollar debt). Is that a sign of bad economical management?
Stock market, that was less than 1200 (twelve hundred) in Nov 1999, went to around 15600 in April 2008, got multiplied 13 times. Does anyone with right mind could say that it happened on thin air?
Pakistan export that was stagnant from 1994-1999 (five years) at around $8 billion … was actually $7.6 billion for year 1998-1999, this year is going to touch 20 billion dollars. Can that happen on thin air?
Pakistan external debt that was increasing at around 10 percent a year, gone up from 17 billion dollars (in 1988) to 38 billion dollars (1999) has not increased over last 8 years (around $40 billion in Oct 2007) even when government was paying huge interest on pre-1999 dollar debts, paid accumulative interest of around $30 billion dollars in 8 years between 1999 to 2007 on pre-1999 dollar debt (of $38 billion). Is that thin air performance?
Rupee debt that was Rs 300 billion (1988) increased to around Rs 1600 billion (1999) or over 5 times, only increased to 2300 billion by Oct 2007 … 700 billion or less than 0.5 times in 8 years, even when government paid around Rs 3500 billion interest on pre-1999 debt during 1999 to 2007, was also an achievement on thin air?
[Note: A big chunk, more than 75 percent of rupee debt taken by previous crook governments of NS and BB was in the form of Defence Saving Certificates and other National Saving Certificates paying compound interest at the rate of over 18 percent a year].
If you would like to see inflation figures, instead of me mentioning, go and check yourself instead of believing on lies by NS and Zardari supporters, you will be surprised:
Yearly Inflation Rate - Federal Bureau of Statistics
Pakistan dollar per capita income that was stagnant in between 1988 to 1999 went up more than 100 percent during 8 years … from $450 (1999) to $946 (2007). Was all that on thin air (hallucination)?
Pakistan tax collection, that was lingering at Rs 300 billion (from 1996-1999) … started going up … and reached around 1000 billion in 2006-2007, even when government was decreasing tax rates. If economy was not growing fast than with stable rupee exchange rate, how such is possible. It was 3 times increase of tax collection in dollars too, something very few country can achieve and that is only possible because Pakistan economy was growing very fast. Only an idiot would think that such increase in tax collection is possible without booming economy.
Brother, I do not want to mention much because I am not only disappointed but depressed because of political thugs, as I lost a lot personally after efficient and hard working government of Shaukat Aziz got out of power. Anyhow, since I earn in pounds, it is OK … I would recover.
Recently, I was planning to migrate back to Pakistan as things was getting good in Pakistan every day, but now I would visit Pakistan and resident Pakistanis would work for me getting peanuts … that would be peanuts when I would convert my pounds at maybe Rs 250 in few years … as, the way political crooks are running the country, that is possible :).
Is it not surprising that many Pakistanis who use to send me CV (1999) to get them a job in west were asking me during last few years to move back to Pakistan and telling me how good Pakistan has become. I was told that one can become visiting lecturer in Islamabad earning around Rs 2000 an hour. Now, I am again waiting for them to start losing their jobs or their salary going down to peanuts (as inflation and devaluation would make that happen) and thus they would start sending me CV again. Maybe, that is what some Pakistanis want, to work for peanuts and live miserably, so who am I to bother?
Well, few years ago when I told a friend in Canada to invest in Pakistan so that he can help Pakistan as well as gain from Pakistani growth, he said that I do not know psyche of many Pakistanis as they are force of destruction. According to him, Pakistan got lucky but I should not start having too much hopes as even though things has developed a lot, it just need one small fire and Musharraf would be forced to leave (or … ), and then, mismanagement, nepotism, egoism, corruption, victimisation, lies, looting and plundering would start. Soon, Pakistani growing economy would come to ground like castle on sand, and then I (me) would not say to invest in Pakistan what I am saying. Now, I can see that he was damn right, destructive forces have taken over Pakistan again. Destruction of Pakistan has started even though surprisingly Mush is still there (contrary to his prediction), but it seems that Musharraf could not do much, as destructive forces of NS, Zardari, Imran, Qazi, Taliban, Itezaz, Iftikhar … is too much at the moment.
Anyhow, 8 years is a long time. One can see a woman pregnant in 6 months from obvious without anyone telling. Same way one can see performance of economy and it does not even take 6 months to see how things are going. All who invest can see (stock market rise, property market rise, salary rise, booming businesses, increase in retail businesses, dividend increases (NIT paid around 60 paisa per share in 1999 … paid Rs 6.50 per share this year), all who send dollar to Pakistan or receive dollar from their relatives could see (their dollar was not appreciating), those who save rupee could see (as interest rate was going down throughout during those 8 years, clear sign of low inflation and growing economy), those who were buying services and white goods (car, motorcycle, houses/flats, refrigerators, air conditioners, TV, video recorder, Satellite/cable TV facility, mobile phones, internet facility, consumptions of non-essential foods, etc) could see … well, literally everyone could see … regardless of they were hard working and were gaining from booming economy or layback type of people who suffer during booms … all could see signs of prosperity in economy.
But after 8 years if some could not see how Pakistani economy was performing or are seeing it wrongly, then either they are on drugs hallucinating absurdities or they should start asking themselves that if someone is misguiding them or that if they are really capable to understand economics to comment. Most at present who are saying that Pakistani economy was bad during last 8 years or Shaukat Aziz was not telling truth are, retarded politicians (Imran, Qazi, Itezaz, etc), Liars of PML(N) trying to fool Pakistani illiterate voters, those who got misguided by team of PML(N) liars or retarded politicians, some journalists doing propaganda for vested interests, or druggies hallucinating absurdities.
Re: Taste of new government on economical front
shorten it!
Many people are confused on how devaluation of Pakistani rupee affects Pakistan economy. Many are under misconception that devaluing rupee would increase exports (due to decreasing price of exports) and decrease imports (due to increasing price of imports), so it is good for country. Well, it is true that devaluing currency could be good for economy but it can also be bad for economy, depending on situation and economical reality of a country. For most countries, including Pakistan, devaluation of local currency is bad for economy and country.
Why? Because most foreign currency Pakistan earns is from agricultural based products (either primary or secondary) and remittances. Output of Pakistan is such that both of these products are inelastic to value of currency. For instance:
Pakistani agricultural products ... get exported as long as Pakistan produces them enough to export, so their market is not dependent on prevailing price but output. Reduction in value of rupee would only mean reduction in dollar earnings, as exporters would export them cheep to export them quicker. Pakistani remittances also do not depend on value of rupee with respect to dollars but on people working abroad and how much they send home. Actually, devaluing rupee means trust on rupee would deteriorate and that means people holding back their remittances.
So, devaluing rupee would not increase exports neither would increase remittances. Rather it would adversely affect both. Pakistani currency devalued extensively from 1988 to 1999 ... (Rs 17 to a dollar to Rs 54 to a dollar) ... still, Pakistani export did not increased. Actually, it stayed around $8 billion from 1994 to 1999.
As for imports: Pakistan main imports are oil and liquid gas. Last year, Pakistan imported around $10 billion worth of crude oil. If Pakistan has to keep developing, these products would keep getting imported regardless of rupee value. So, devaluing rupee would not reduce their imports and if it does then it would be at the cost of growth and development.
As for finished goods, Pakistan imports mostly machineries and they would have to keep importing if country has to grow, but if not then again it would be at the cost of growth and development. As for secondary goods Pakistan imports, it would keep coming as long as those who use them have no problem with money. For instance, Nawaz Shareef and Zardari would not change to Pakistani built Suzuki, and would keep using big foreign cars regardless of their price in rupee. They would keep travelling to London and Dubai regardless of what it would cost. Their children would keep spending same amount of foreign currency regardless of what it would cost in rupee.
So devaluing Pakistani rupee would never help Pakistan rather it would only increase inflation, reduce remittances, reduce export receipts, and would hinder growth and development of the country, bringing misery to poor as well as middle class.
Devaluing rupee means increase in debt as well as interests. At present, Pakistan debt is around $42 billion. Rupee devalued by around Rs 12 during last 8 months (mostly during last 3 months) and it means increase of around Rs 500 billion in Pakistan debt due to devaluation. Pakistan pays around $4.5 billion to service dollar debts and that means Pakistan have to pay extra Rs 54 billion in debt servicing on dollar loan alone every year due to rupee devaluation.
I told ya so that when theives return take your money and run run run, post # 11, 13 and 15…
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/253981-benazir-nawaz-ask-musharraf-quit.html
After the death of BB her replacement is an even bigger thief.
Last I checked inflation is hovering around 30 percent…
This is how Pakistani rupee is performing under crooks and thugs ruling Pakistan. Rupee is continuously devaluing since Shaukat Aziz left the control of economy. Worse devaluation started once present political government took over power. For instance, Rupee devalued 20 percent since Oct 2007. In reality, most devaluation happened once political government took charge. For instance, rupee devalued only 3 percent before political government took over on 31st of March 2008. All devaluation happened after 31st of March 2008. Actually, rupee devaluation has accelerated during recent days, as rupee devalued 7.3 percent just in first 8 days of July 2008 (6 working days).
This was the value of rupee on last days of Shaukat Aziz government (12th Nov 2008): Rs 60.97
This was the value of rupee on first day of election result, when it became obvious that Shaukat Aziz government is really out (20 Feb, 2008): Rs 62.30
This was the value of rupee on first day of Political government coalition (March 31, 2008): Rs 63.25
This is the value of rupee in open market (8th July 2008): Rs 73.00
Meeting to check rupee fall today: Dollar rises to Rs73.90 -DAWN - Business; July 09, 2008
Meeting to check rupee fall today: Dollar rises to Rs73.90
By Shahid Iqbal
KARACHI, July 8: A meeting has been called on Wednesday at the State Bank of Pakistan to discuss ways to arrest the free fall of rupee against the dollar, which once again forced the former to shed 2.6 per cent to Rs73.90 on Tuesday.
Finance Minister Naveed Qamar and SBP Governor Dr Shamshad Akhtar will jointly discuss the situation arising from the sinking of local currency. Presidents of major banks have also been invited to the meeting.
Banking sources believe that the meeting might take some important steps to tackle the situation.“There is no possibility of a sudden stop in this trend, which forces the rupee to shed weight against the greenback every day. However, the market can be influenced to restrain the fast erosion of value of the local currency,” said a senior banker.
The market is extremely shaky about the real price of the dollar in future; however, the dollar rates in forward booking were quoted as Rs75 for 3 months, Rs76.9 for 6 months and Rs80.6 for one year.
Bankers said the forward booking allows speculation about the rupee-dollar parity, which finally results in favour of speculators or money makers.
Earlier, on May 9, when the dollar touched Rs69.45, a loss of 3.5 per cent, the SBP forced the exchange companies to stop taking UK pound sterling, euro and UAE dirham out from the country and compelled the large banks to sell dollars in the market.
The action helped the local currency to recover against the dollar and it gained what it lost that day, though, the gain proved short-lived because of the greenback’s high demand.
Currency dealers said the Tuesday witnessed the same fast erosion of value of rupee as it was noted on Monday. They felt that the rupee would soon touch the 76 mark, which is the price of one litre petrol. They believe that rupee is left free to devalue itself to touch the figure of Rs76.
Since the beginning of July, rupee devalued fast against the dollar to shed a total 7.2 per cent. This erosion in value sent waves of concern across the country as not only the import will become costlier but the entire economy will be plagued with the unexpected high inflation.
The government set the inflation rate at 12 per cent for the current fiscal year but analysts believe that the oil price hike and devaluation of rupee would push it much higher than the target.
“Dollar is directly linked with our economy, it will not only make the import costlier but the inflows of dollar will cause inflation,” said an analyst.
“Another major factor which will seriously dent the economy is the widening of trade deficit and devaluation will make it more dangerous for the economy,” the analyst said adding that nation would have to borrow heavily from the donors to meet the deficit.
The country already pays about $4.5 billion annually as interest and instalments of liabilities, which has reached $42 billion.
Re: Taste of new government on economical front
Saleem, post all the paras you want, even Musharraf has blamed Shaukat Aziz though he himself was the one who brought this disaster upon us, and things werent as rosy and there were no streams of honey and milk flowing (despite chaudhry pervez elahi's assertions)... You reap what you sow, and this is the result of 8-9 years of the unprecedented mess.
July 10 2008
IN the face of worsening financial conditions Pakistan Government is once again planning to seek assistance from the International Monetary Fund (IMF), sparking fears among people that another period of humiliating conditionalities and dictation is in the offing.
Previous Government of (former) Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz used to take credit of taking the country out of the shackles of the IMF. The hallmark of its policies was ‘trade’ not ‘aid’ and it boasted of breaking the begging bowl. It is a fact that prudent economic measures and continuity and consistency of policies over the last few years enabled Pakistan only to bid farewell to the IMF but also to transform a near bankrupt economy into a robust one, which was poised to scale even greater heights in days to come. Pakistan was sarcastically referred to as one “tranche country” in 1999 but with the passage of time it graduated to a position of one of the fastest growing economies in the world.
This remarkable transition won accolades from all over the world and it was precisely due to this reason that the country was able to absorb and withstand the shock of unprecedented increase in the oil prices internationally. Foreign exchange reserves also remained at a comfortable level and despite regional and international shocks the rupee also remained stable. However, the situation has dramatically changed since March 9, 2007 and the ensuing political and judicial crises are taking their toll. People of Pakistan gave mandate to PPP and PML (N) to stem the rot and take measures for welfare of the people but unfortunately that couldn’t happen. The law and order situation is worsening, foreign investment has dropped significantly, foreign exchange reserves have dwindled enormously, rupee has seen unprecedented fall, stock exchange is volatile, price hike is touching new heights and the rate of unemployment has gone up. The deteriorating security situation and energy crisis have slowed down economic activities and trade deficit has assumed alarming proportions. In this backdrop, the Government is again knocking at the doors of the IMF and it is understood that the required assistance would come with strings attached. This would compound the economic difficulties of the masses who are already hard pressed due to inflation and shortages of essential items. ** We believe that apart from other factors, there is something seriously wrong with the policies of the Government and it would not be an exaggeration to say that the country is almost directionless in the absence of full-time ministers and lack of attention by the top leadership of the country. **
Re: Taste of new government on economical front
Not that it is any “consolation” but Indian Rupee has seen similar fall - not same magnitude but close to 10% devaluation since January this year.
Brother, why you quote things in such a way so that people without knowledge get misguided. Indian rupee performance you showed is not devaluation but it shows variation. Actually Indian rupee is appreciating against dollar. The dip you see in the graph you posted is because it was temporary increase in Indian rupee value.
Same happened in Pakistan during 2003/2004 when Pakistani rupee appreciated against dollar. Pakistan dollar exchange rate was around Rs 68 at the end of 2001 but then rupee started appreciating and rate came to around Rs 57 by end of 2003 (It was first time in Pakistan history that rupee was not adjusting but really appreciating against dollar over period of time). Throughout the period Pakistan government kept selling rupee and kept buying dollars so that Pakistan can accumulate dollar reserves plus stop rupee from appreciating a lot. Result was that the reserve that was around 3.2 billion dollars at the end of June 2001 became 12.3 billion dollars at the end of June 2004 … increase of over 9 billion dollars. Later also, Pakistan kept buying dollars to keep the rate stable at around Rs 60 and increase dollar reserve. By Oct 2007, Pakistan reserve reached $16.5 billion.
During that time, some thug politicians and duffer economists who do not know even ABC of economics use to criticize Shaukat Aziz that he was buying dollars expensive causing loss to exchequer, as rupee was appreciating even after government buying dollars. So, dollars that was bought at Rs 62 was worth Rs 60 later (as rupee appreciated). They had no idea that it was time to increase reserve while rupee was appreciating. They should have known that it is always easy to keep rupee value low by buying dollars but not high unless country has plenty of dollars to sell in support of rupee when required. So, if Pakistan would have lot of reserves and strong economy than it would be easy to keep rupee stable at predetermined price. This stability in rupee would have enormous positive impact on overall Pakistan economy and would win confidence of investors. They did not knew that increasing reserves was making rupee more stronger and Pakistan economy attractive for investors, causing further dividends to overall economy, else no one like to invest in bankrupt country with no reserves and depreciating currency.
Anyhow, you showed performance over one year taken from Yahoo. Let see what happened during 5 years and you will see that stable rate for Indian rupee is between 44 and 46 … whereas stable rate for Pakistan rupee was between 60 and 61. Unfortunately, though Indian rupee is still stable, Pakistan rupee is depreciating fast and already depreciated 20 percent in recent months.
Here is graph for Indian rupee over 5 years:
(http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=INR&amt=1&t=5y)
http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/5y?usdinr=x
Here is graph for Pakistan rupee over 5 years … plus, graph is up to 4 July 2008. By 8 July 2008, rupee was 73 to a dollar:
(http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=PKR&amt=1&t=5y)
