Iraq’s Deputy Chief Tariq Aziz is in US custody now. Does it mean that it would be easier to locate Saddam? Would Sadam also turn up like this someday? Are we gonna see the information minister surrendering sometime…
Hopefully. He expects some type of deal since he turned himself in, he's been on Saddams side for ages.
When the lights come on all the cockroaches run. Every one of these guys will be trying to cut a deal to save his skin. They will all be scared to death that some other prisoner/defector will give up all the information they have to sell, and that they will be sitting in a cell waiting for the war crimes trial to start.
Tariq, meet Abdul. Abdul is a Shia whose whole family was salughtered, his daughters raped and wife hung from a ceiling by her ankles naked. Abdul is helping us out by volunteering to help guard some prisoners. See you in an hour, the rest of us Marines are going out for some barbecue for about an hour. You two have fun....
Poor Abdul. Somehow I don't think his hitting Tariq with shoes will ease his pain. I hope the US doesn't do any 'deals' - those who stood with Saddam deserve absolutely nothing.
btw welcome back Ohioguy. :)
Rhia,
Thank you! A holiday with my family was far too peaceful, so I needed to get back to Gupshup for some good old fashioned Anti-American hostility and venom!
Nice to be back! ;)
I don't think that beating with shoes is what they are fearing! The US has not announced whether it intends to sponsor war crimes trials ot not. (And where the heck is the UN on THAT issue?) But I agree that there must be a thorough vetting of new offcials, and that suitable investigation is considered for high level officials.
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
I needed to get back to Gupshup for some good old fashioned Anti-American hostility and venom!
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Now I never thought of you as that kinda guy! Admit it you enjoy it. :)
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
I don't think that beating with shoes is what they are fearing! The US has not announced whether it intends to sponsor war crimes trials ot not. (And where the heck is the UN on THAT issue?) But I agree that there must be a thorough vetting of new offcials, and that suitable investigation is considered for high level officials.
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UN or not, as with the 'administration' of Iraq, its the responsibility of the US to at least ensure some sort of trial to ensure these ppl get what they deserve.
I have been looking around, and both Human Rights Watch, and Indict are recommending some things for post war Iraq.
Human Rights Watch is recommending the installation of Human Rights Monitors:
And Indict is recommending a Criminal Court or Tribunal, but they are not very specific as to how, when, or by whom that might be accomplished. They have definitely listed Tariq Aziz as a target for indictment:
http://www.indict.org.uk/witnesses.php
And Rhia, on vacation I had to buy a pair of shoes three sizes too small just to remind me of the pain of the floggings I am missing here at Gupshup. 
So Which room is he hiding?
Now that Tariq Aziz is captured that means the noose is really tight around Saddam's neck. I believe he is alive and hiding in some regular 3 bedroom flat in Baghdad, probably trying to finish his last bottle of Scottish whisky and prozac packet, repenting over his decision to challenge the big guy.
What do think will happen next? will he be caught alive? I think so. Will he be prosecuted? I think so if he is caught alive.
Re: So Which room is he hiding?
I thought America made deal with him and all his buddies to end the war? 
Sorry, dunno if this is related to this thread or not - but Aziz was Iraq’s deputy prime minister, right? And former foreign affairs minister ? Why was he “only” 43rd on the list of “most-wanted” cards (out of 55)… Shouldn’t someone who was considered the ‘public face’ of Saddam Hussein’s regime, the one who was the right-hand man, be at least in the top ten.
Sorry, i know this is an irrelevant question considering everything else :halo: Was just wondering about this.
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*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
Shouldn't someone who was considered the 'public face' of Saddam Hussein's regime, the one who was the right-hand man, be at least in the top ten.
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Excellent point. Maybe because he was the public face it is understood that he gained significant personal allies. He has sympathisers. One would think that for this exact reason the Realists would want to crush those emotional ties, but who knows.
As for the original question:
I don't think you'll find Saddam via Aziz.. you'd have better chances through one of the others, but Saddam knows that too so I doubt they could truly increase the chances.
Tariq Aziz was super clerk. He was an employee of the regime who took care of paperwork and communicating with the outside world. so was the the other guy called Baghdad Bob al-Sahaf. Almost everyone else in the top chamber was Sunni and/or Tikriti, thats where the real power rest.
One could wonder why the task of public face to the outside world was given to these 2 guys while rest of coterie sat behnd and did the real work.
Very odd that a lot of these guys could not make it over the border, or even out of Baghdad. Why would they not flee as they heard the sounds of artillery? Maybe they actually believed Baghdad BOB?
Aziz had to know that the US would be after him. Why would he not run for the hills? Perhaps he knew what he would try to bargain with, or he had no escape plan in place. I don't think Aziz has much information, but he will undoubtedly have a few nuggets that he thinks will keep him alive.
Also odd is that he gave up. Perhaps surrendering to the US is preferrable to being shredded on the street by his countrymen. I think there are a LOT of Iraqi's with good information who can be bought. The US is using fists full of dollars to gain ground on these guys. As they realize that there is no way that Saddam can ever reappear, it seems probable that they can sell out the regime and live.....
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*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *Shouldn't someone who was considered the 'public face' of Saddam Hussein's regime, the one who was the right-hand man, be at least in the top ten.
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That surprised me too. I would have thought that he'd warrant at least a face card in the deck. It appears as if the ranking in the cards was/is based upon determinations as to decision making roles. People who actually assisted in the formulation of Saddam's policies and/or were in charge of implementing various aspects of them score high. Those who were mouthpieces rather than decision makers or implementers seem to score lower. The US, apparently, looked at Aziz as a guy with relatively little actual power who was largely not in direct line of control in Saddam's atrocities.
From news stories I have read, it appears as if the Iraqi people and a lot of other people have a perception of him as a very large fish. To the Iraqi people his capture seems to be of more symbolic importance than the capture of some face cards who they may not really be aware of. On this basis alone, I think maybe he should have scored higher. Then again, maybe he'd still be hiding out if he knew the US viewed him as something like the King of Spades.
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hmmm. Interesting.
Many thanks, Spoon and MyVoice :k: Was just wondering about that.
And there is something about these cards that is getting me really vexed 
. I recently learned 
the best hand in a game (simple 5 card) was Royal Flush so of course I thought the natural order would be Saadam (Ace) followed by the others King Queen etc (eg his sons and the rest of the brigade in order of power) of the same suit (it makes it easier for ppl). But no, that’s not the case. The ace of hearts is Odai and the ace of clubs is Qusai and ace of diamonds is Saddam’s secretary. The dilemma is winning a royal flush in this case isn’t worth it because you don’t get all of the top most wanted in the regime and it takes all the fun out of the game. So how do you really win in this game?
Thanx for all your help.
The Joker is apparently Baghdad Bob.
There are no tanks in the city and if there were we would cut off their heads and defeat them. Now I must go.......
Despite your own personal out-of-pocket losses ( sorry but education is getting more expensive 
), perhaps the US is playing a different game in numbering their cards. In bridge for instance, the rank of suits is spades, hearts, diamonds and clubs. The rank of cards within the suit is A, K, Q … 2. Therefore, the most powerful card in bridge theory (before bidding to establish a trump suit) is the A of Spades. Next is the A of Hearts. Then A of Diamonds. Then A of Clubs. Then K of Spades. and so on.
When your pocketbook is replenished, I’d be happy to enroll you in the University of Bridge. Of course, I can’t guarantee that the tuition is any less than at the University of Poker.
on the subject of "the deck" how do they get 55? 52 cards in the 4 suits, 2 jokers and then what? intructions?
Bridge is sooo NOT democratic unlike my game 
But it does make so much sense all of a sudden. Thanx myvoice u’r a lifesaver!
But if anyone has any ideas on how to win the 5-card one please tell.