whats a mutazilite?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
Nope. Never heard of HIM(RA).
Lekn Name Shiaz ka ha.
[/QUOTE]
I guess its all in the name. Comment by Rehman1.
Question :
We are students who are seeking knowledge. We study ‘aqeedah with some teachers who are teaching us Ash’ari ‘aqeedah. They interpret the hand of Allaah as meaning His power or His blessing, and His being above His throne (istiwaa’) as meaning His sovereignty, and so on. What is the ruling on studying with these teachers?
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
These people who interpret the Qur’aan in this manner, whether they are called Ash’aris or some other name, have gone astray from the path of the righteous salaf. Not even one letter of what these people say in their misinterpretations has been narrated from the righteous salaf. Let them bring one word from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or from Abu Bakr, or ‘Umar, or ‘Uthmaan, or ‘Ali, to say that they interpreted Allaah’s hand as meaning His power, or that they interpreted His being above the Throne (istiwaa’) as referring to His Sovereignty, or that they interpreted His Face as meaning reward, or that they interpreted His love as meaning reward, etc. Let them produce one word from them to show that they interpreted these aayahs and similar verses in the manner that these people interpret them. If they cannot produce any such thing, let it be said that either the righteous salaf, headed by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), the leader of the pious, were unaware of the meaning of this tremendous ‘aqeedah (of Islam), or they did know it but they concealed the truth. But neither of these can be said of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or of any of the Rightly-Guided Khaleefahs, or of his Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them). If that is the case then we have to follow their path (the path of the Prophet and the Rightly-Guided Khaleefahs).
My advice to these people is to fear Allaah and to abandon what So and so said, and to come back to the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and the way of the Rightly-Guided Khaleefahs who came after him. They should know that there will come a Day when they will return to Allaah, when they will not be able to use the opinion of So and so as evidence. By Allaah, So and so will not be able to help them on that Day. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And (remember) the Day (Allaah) will call to them, and say: ‘What answer gave you to the Messengers?’”
[al-Qasas 28:65]
He did not say, Remember the Day when (Allaah) will call to them and say, ‘What answer gave you to So and so…?’
And Allaah says in His Book (interpretation of the meaning):
“So believe in Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad), who believes in Allaah and His Words, and follow him so that you may be guided”
[al-A’raaf 7:158]
Allaah commanded us to believe in him and follow him. If this is the case then how can a person believe in Allaah and His Messenger in the true and complete sense, then turn away from the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the way in which he believed in his Lord, and misinterpret the way in which Allaah has described Himself in His Book or the way in which His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has described Him, simply because of illusions which they call rational thought?
I advise them to come back to Allaah and to abandon any other opinion, and follow what Allaah and His Messenger say, for if they die following that they will have died following the truth. But if they go against that then they are in grave danger and those whose opinions they are following will not protect them from Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“(Remember) the Day when every person will come up pleading for himself, and every one will be paid in full for what he did (good or evil, belief or disbelief in the life of this world) and they will not be dealt with unjustly”
[al-Nahl 16:111]
I repeat this advice to every believer, to come back to the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with regard to what he believes about his Lord and God, following the path of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), the rightly guided khaleefahs who came after him, and the imams of the Muslims who led the people in following the Sunnah of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), without referring to rational thought, which is no more than an illusion, concerning issue that have to do with Allaah and His names and attributes. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah spoke well when he described the ahl al-kalaam (“Islamic” philosophers) as “having been given intelligence but not knowledge, and had having been given smartness but not sincerity.” So one has to deepen one’s knowledge on the basis of the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). I ask Allaah to help us all to have faith and to cause us to meet Him when He is pleased with us, for He is Able to do all things. Praise be to Allaah, the Lord of the Worlds, and may Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions.
I call upon all seekers of knowledge to call their brothers to that which they have heard, for by Allaah it is the truth. Whoever claims to have truth other than this, we will accept it and adhere to it (if it can be proven to be true).
From Fataawa al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, Kitaab al-‘Ilm, p. 226 (www.islam-qa.com)
Name, its all in the name...........
Is it permissible to study fiqh or ‘uloom al-hadeeth (sciences of hadeeth) with an Ash’ari individual?.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah. _
The Ash’aris are a sect that is named after Imam Abu’l-Hasan al-Ash’ari (may Allaah have mercy on him). Al-Ash’ari passed through three stages – as mentioned by Ibn Taymiyah in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 4/72 – which may be summed up as follows: a Mu’tazili stage; then following Ibn Kilaab; then following Ahl al-Sunnah, chiefly Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Al-Ash’ari clearly stated his final position in his three books: Risaalah ila Ahl al-Thaghr, Maqaalaat al-Islaamiyyeen, and al-Ibaanah. Whoever follows al-Ash’ari at this stage is in accordance with Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah in most issues. Whoever follows his path at the second stage is going against al-Ash’ari himself, and is going against Ahl al-Sunnah in many issues._
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said in al-Fataawa, 3/338:Those later scholars who called themselves after Abu’l-Hasan al-Ash’ari were following the second of his stages of ‘aqeedah. They followed the method of misinterpreting most of the divine attributes, and this only affirmed the seven attributes mentioned in the following line of verse:
“Ever-Living, All-Knowing, Able (to do all things), He speaks, He wills, He hears and He sees.”_
They also differed with Ahl al-Sunnah as to how these attributes are to be understood._
The Standing Committee issued a fatwa (no. 6606, vol. 3/220):_
The Ash’aris are not kuffaar, rather they erred in their interpretation of some of the Divine attributes._
Based on this, it is better for a Muslim to study Islamic knowledge and sharee’ah only with scholars who are well known for their knowledge and sound belief (‘aqeedah), and to keep away from those who follow bid’ah and go against Ahl al-Sunnah, including the Ash’aris. This is something that is easy to do – praise be to Allaah – because the means of learning have become readily available to all people. The knowledge of the scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah is available through many means such as Islamic tapes, books, and leaflets; there are Islamic bulletin boards and sites on the internet, and many easy ways of accessing knowledge – praise be to Allaah._
O Allaah, teach us that which will benefit us, benefit us by that which we learn and increase us in knowledge._
what is itna ashree.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
what is itna ashree.
[/QUOTE]
Present day shiaz population is dominated by ithna ashree shiaz....they r called athna ashree as they believe in 12 imams......ithna(2)ashree(10)
brother…these schools along with other schools in subcontinent namely Farangimehal ,nadvah ,mazahir uloom were just normal madreesas and are for the interpretations of the aqaid …
As far as ijtimah is concerend …thn what else can i say…lahola wala qoayta…
May Allah save us from Pakistani Maderessas and their
(Astagfirullah) interpretations.i-e deoband and brelvis.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
May Allah save us from Pakistani Maderessas and their
(Astagfirullah) interpretations.i-e deoband and brelvis.
[/QUOTE]
However both of these schools have produced lots of excellent students and they are working very fine for the religion as well as society. Their efforts are appreciateable. Allah the Almighty will reward them for their work.
Rehman, Deoband and Breli are located in India... just want to let you know :)
Re: Taqleed
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
"Indeed the people of Truth and the Sunnah do not follow anyone [unconditionally] except the messenger of Allaah SAW, the one who does not speak from his desires - it is only revelation revealed to him."
So should we follow the Ulemas in Pak unconditionally.
Kissa Mukhtasir, blind following is unacceptable.BY ME.
Do not be a blind follower(Taqleed) of say Maulana Thanvi.
[/QUOTE]
Following Ullema blindly; It depends; in which matter you are following them. If you are following them in believes (aaqaid) this is not forbidden and however in Faqh’ (Law, Pracitices, Jurisdictions) we can follow them.
Indeed, the roots of Ijtihad can be traced to the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet(PBUH). In the chapter of 'The Prophets', this verse states: "…ask the people of remembrance if you do not know" (21:7). Clearly this is asking people who have no knowledge on certain matters, to refer to people that do, whom essentially are the experts. This is the natural way of things, to seek knowledge from those who have it. Even the Prophets were instructed to do so, as the case with Musa (AS) when he was told to seek wisdom from Al-Khidhr(AS).
Following the knowledgeable applies equally in political and religious matters, regardless of the state of affairs in that region, for the erudite are the closest to Allah (SWT):
**He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation, but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding (3:7)
Why should not a company from every group of them go forth to gain profound understanding in religion and to warn their people when they return to them, so that they may beware (9:122)**
Wasalam,
Re: Re: Taqleed
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
Following Ullema blindly; It depends; in which matter you are following them. If you are following them in believes (aaqaid) this is not forbidden and however in Faqh’ (Law, Pracitices, Jurisdictions) we can follow them.
Indeed, the roots of Ijtihad can be traced to the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet(PBUH). In the chapter of 'The Prophets', this verse states: "…ask the people of remembrance if you do not know" (21:7). Clearly this is asking people who have no knowledge on certain matters, to refer to people that do, whom essentially are the experts. This is the natural way of things, to seek knowledge from those who have it. Even the Prophets were instructed to do so, as the case with Musa (AS) when he was told to seek wisdom from Al-Khidhr(AS).
Following the knowledgeable applies equally in political and religious matters, regardless of the state of affairs in that region, for the erudite are the closest to Allah (SWT):
**He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation, but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding (3:7)
Why should not a company from every group of them go forth to gain profound understanding in religion and to warn their people when they return to them, so that they may beware (9:122)**
Wasalam,
[/QUOTE]
003.007
YUSUFALI: He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
PICKTHAL: He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.
SHAKIR: He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
i'll translate ibn kathir's tafsir for u....
and will try to make it short as well....
it is mentioned in this verse that there r verses in the Quran which r easily understood by everyone and there r also the verse which r not easily comprehended by a normal mind....
now those who try to understand the 'complicated' verses by matching them with the 'simple' verses, they r on the right path....
and those who wish to seek a solution for a particular matter from the 'complicated' verses and knowingly ignore the 'simpler' verses which hold the answer to the matter, then those r the ones who will fall on their faces....
"umm ul kitaab" r the verses which r the clear matter of the Quran....
there is no doubt in their meaning and they must be followed without any alterations....
follow the commands in them, and use them even for deriving the meaning of the 'complicated' verses....
'muhkamaat' and 'mushtabihaat' have different meanings by the early scholars....
ibn abbas (ra) says that muhkamaat r the verses which explain about haraam and halal....
saeed bin jubair (ra) says these r the verses which were revealed in all Books sent down by Allah....
maqatil (rha) says these r the verses in which all religions have faith....
mushtabihaat r the verses which have been 'mansookh'....
and the verses in which examples r given....
and the ones in which Allah as sworn (e.g walsham, walasar)....
and these r the verses in which one must have faith but do not require any actions to exhibit faith in them....
ibn abbas (ra) believes the same....
maqatil (rha) says these r the 'muatiaat' (verses like alif-lam-meem, and ha-meem, ya-seen etc)....
mujahid (rha) says these r the verses which r proof of other verses and r used to furhter stregthen the orders in those verses....
also he says these r the verses which carry information about opposites (e.g. heaven and hell, good and bad, etc)....
muhammad bin ishaaq (rha) gives a long definition of such verses which can be summarized as verses which apparently give some other meaning but there r other verses which can be used to show what the actual meaning is....
such verses r used by 'bid'atis" (innovators) to spread lies while they ignore other verses which clarify points about such verses....
abdulla bin abbas (ra) says that the meaning of the verses r of four types....
1) which can be understood by all
2) those which r understood by arabs due to the advantage of their language
3) those which r understood only by scholars
4) those which only Allah knows
imam ahmed has reported in his 'masnad' a hadith that the Prophet(saw) saw some people fighting over the meaning of the Quran, so he said to them "listen, people before u also were destroyed becaues they said that the verses of Allah contradict each other wherase eac verse of the Book of Allah confirms each other, so dont try to find contradiction in them and dont say they r opposites of each other.... say what u know of them and leave what u dont know to the scholars who know"....
Unfortunately, some sects have the habit of using just one verse
and to base their whole ideas on this...........
Re: Re: Taqleed
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
Indeed, the roots of Ijtihad can be traced to the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet(PBUH). In the chapter of 'The Prophets', this verse states: "…ask the people of remembrance if you do not know" (21:7). Clearly this is asking people who have no knowledge on certain matters, to refer to people that do, whom essentially are the experts. This is the natural way of things, to seek knowledge from those who have it. Even the Prophets were instructed to do so, as the case with Musa (AS) when he was told to seek wisdom from Al-Khidhr(AS).
Wasalam,
[/QUOTE]
This verse is explaining that nations should look towards Prophets
for guidance who were sent among them.
What it has got to do with scholars.
I could not find any reason of pasting the translation of Quranic Aya from different translators. Even if I have pasted the translation of that Aya from one of the translator (SHAKIR) which you pasted in your reply. What you want to prove from it. And what is the difference between my post and the translation of “ibn kathir’s tafsir” you posted in my reply.
What does mean by the following as you wrote:
I will advise you to read the following 7 paragraphs from the same link which you posted in another thread. The source URL of these paragraphs is http://www.dawn.com/2004/01/09/op.htm#1
The fourth source of Islamic law is Ijtihad which means the use of one’s judgment or common sense while deciding an issue. When the Prophet appointed Muaad bin Jabal as the governor of Yemen, he asked him how would he decide various issues that might be brought before him for adjudication. Jabal replied that he would decide them in the light of what the Quran said in regard to the matters at issue.
Then the Prophet asked him what would he do if he couldn’t find the appropriate solution or answer in the Quran. Jabal said that he would refer to the traditions of the Prophet. The Prophet again asked him what he would do if he couldn’t find any answer or solution in the traditions. Jabal replied that he will use his own judgment which was approved by the Prophet.
Thus, the use of Ijtihad which was sanctioned by the Prophet became another source of Islamic law. And it was this particular source that played a vital role in the evolution and development of Islamic jurisprudence. Recourse to this source was unfortunately discontinued after the 11th century A.D. It may also be pointed out that the Quran too emphasizes the use of intelligence and common sense whether it be in matters of faith or otherwise (67:10).
Some people are of the view that persons capable of exercising Ijtihad are no longer available and this probably could be the main reason for discontinuance of recourse to Ijtihad. But the fact remains that Muaad bin Jabal who was allowed by the Prophet to exercise Ijtihad was a young, though learned and well informed, person from Khazraj tribe.
The Quran is the last book of guidance from Allah. We cannot expect any more divine guidance to come. It is also a fact that the Quran is a complete code of life, providing guidance in respect of every aspect of life. This guidance is, however, provided through injunctions, admonitions and enunciation of principles, mostly in broad terms. This is so because human society is not a static entity or object.
Human society has undergone radical changes in a short span of time. That’s why most of the guidance provided to human beings is not so specific or minute in details. Neither the Quran nor the traditions provide specific solutions to all the problems and issues that can possibly confront us in life. That’s why the Prophet asked Muaad bin Jabal about what he would do if he couldn’t find any solution to an issue in the Quran or in traditions.
We cannot avoid changes specially those occurring in various aspects of socio-economic life. The Quran rather supports continuous improvement and progress in the right direction (2:148) (13:11) (20:114). Nor can we bypass or cross the limits imposed by the Quran and traditions in the form of principles and guidelines. But at the same time, the Quran and traditions provide enough guidance in this regard (29:69).
**
Hadrat Ans ( Raddi Allah Ho Ta Ala Anho) says that I have heard the Rasool Ullah ( Sall Allah Ho Alaihe Wa Sallam) saying that some people say prayers, keep fasts, perform Hajj (pilgrimage), do Jihaad yet they are still hypocrites (munafiq). I requested “Ya Rasool Ullah Sall Allah Ho Alaihe Wa Sallam, by what reason, they have got this hypocrisy?” Said, “Because of pointing fingers on their Imam.” I requested, “Who is the Imam?” Said, “Allah Has Said, Seek knowledge from the Ones who understand if you do not know”
(This is in Tafseer E Durr E Manshoor under the explanation of the Ayah Fasaloo Ahluz Zikr e . . ) **
**
Hadrat Ans ( Raddi Allah Ho Ta Ala Anho) says that I have heard the Rasool Ullah ( Sall Allah Ho Alaihe Wa Sallam) saying that some people say prayers, keep fasts, perform Hajj (pilgrimage), do Jihaad yet they are still hypocrites (munafiq). I requested “Ya Rasool Ullah Sall Allah Ho Alaihe Wa Sallam, by what reason, they have got this hypocrisy?” Said, “Because of pointing fingers on their Imam.” I requested, “Who is the Imam?” Said, “Allah Has Said, Seek knowledge from the Ones who understand if you do not know”
(This is in Tafseer E Durr E Manshoor under the explanation of the Ayah Fasaloo Ahluz Zikr e . . ) **
[/QUOTE]
More Tabaraa for you.
The reason that i pasted the tafsir is that you quoted The ayatwith having any clue about it. The Shia beliefs are based on one LINER AYATS that I mentioned in the earlier post. About Imams, About Mutah
and about all other things they follow. And for the Imams, these liars
were always in hiding. God Knows doing what. What if the Imams died.
As in in the case of Ismaili belief.
And by Taqleed, i meant if any Imam has made a mistake on any matter, we can follow another one in that particular regard.
This means, if Imam Hanifa has made a mistake in certain matter,
Muslims can follow Imam Shafi’e. Its not that they are Prophets and to be followed blindly. Same case is applicable to SHIA(teen) Imams.
take care
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
The reason that i pasted the tafsir is that you quoted The ayatwith having any clue about it. The Shia beliefs are based on one LINER AYATS that I mentioned in the earlier post.
And by Taqleed, i meant if any Imam has made a mistake on any matter, we can follow another one in that particular regard.
This means, if Imam Hanifa has made a mistake in certain matter,
Muslims can follow Imam Shafi'e. Its not that they are Prophets and to be followed blindly. Same case is applicable to SHIA(teen) Imams.
take care
[/QUOTE]
How do we know that which verse is muhkamaat which verse is mushtabihaat, which one is simple and which one is complicated. Who will be authority? Can those (senior) imams be the authority who could not even memorize Surah Al-Baqarah in their life time?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
How do we know that which verse is muhkamaat which verse is mushtabihaat, which one is simple and which one is complicated. Who will be authority? Can those (senior) imams be the authority who could not even memorize Surah Al-Baqarah in their life time?
[/QUOTE]
refer to Book by Najfi, taqi naqi and Kalb Abbas. and
Imam khabisee.
take care
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
refer to Book by Najfi, taqi naqi and Kalb Abbas. and
Imam khabisee.
take care
[/QUOTE]
Who's Imam Khabisee??
You follow him??
seems you dont have any thing to answer or Copy'n'Paste anymore.
Edit: and dont claim that you follow the Sunnah. If the attitude of the follower of sunnah is like what you wrote above then May Allah (swt) keep us away from the sunnah you follow.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
And by Taqleed, i meant if any Imam has made a mistake on any matter, we can follow another one in that particular regard.
This means, if Imam Hanifa has made a mistake in certain matter,
Muslims can follow Imam Shafi'e. Its not that they are Prophets and to be followed blindly. Same case is applicable to SHIA(teen) Imams.
take care
[/QUOTE]
Who will judge that this imam has made a mistake, so it should be corrected? If somebody (next imam) corrects it, then how will you confirm it that that correction itself is not a mistake? So this is a loop of confusion in sunnism.
So there must be an absolute authority of, Allah(swt), among all the mankind after The Holy Prophet(pbuh&hf) for guidance and that is Imam e Masoom.
Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to follow my Sunnah and the way of the rightly-guided khaleefahs after me; adhere to it and cling to it firmly. Beware of newly-invented things, for every newly-invented thing is an innovation (bid’ah) and every innovation is a going-astray.” (Narrated by Ahmad, 4/126; al-Tirmidhi no. 2676).
What was the age of the Holy Prophet Isa (AS) when he spoke with people and he told them that he is Messenger of Allah and came with his book.?