Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

[Matrubhoomi]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

@ravage

No i dont. I merely argued before, and maintain now that Hindu extremist/militant/terrorist is a correct characterization. It may be a politically motivated one, sure.

That’s not the correct characterization.

The correct characterization is — LTTE is a politically motivated seperatist/terrorist organization of Tamil language-ethnic minorities of Sri Lanka, majority of LTTE just happen to be Hindus.

Sure it can be argued that they’re fighting for a Tamil state and not a Hindu state and have a significant Christian minority. PLO had a Christian component. Hezbollah has a Christian component. Black anti-apartheid militancies had non-Black components, and they werent fighting for a black state. The adjective “Hindu” can correctly be a description of the composition and not necessarily idealogy of the group just as there are many Muslim countries in the world but very few with an statedly Islamic foreign policy.

Agree, except the bold…becuase while by Hindu terrorists if you mean only composition and NOT ideology…then definately by any logic you have to put the sentence like I said before ---- Majority of them happen to be Hindus.

How come you can refer an organization as a religious group (Hindu) but at the same time the movement is not for protection/propagation of religion/religious ideology.

When a Hindu man blows himself up, explain to me how it isnt correct to call him a Hindu militant. It is ONE characterization of him, and one that might unfairly associate Hinduism with terrorism, but it still is a correct characterization. Just as calling him a Tamil terrorist shouldnt reflect on people of tamil ethnicity who dont share his views.

They are Tamils first and Hindus later…reason for their Unity is NOT Hinduism but the language Tamil.

The person blowing himself up from LTTE can be a majority Hindu, a Christian and an Atheist…but definately all of them are Tamil and blowing themselves-up for the cause of seperate Tamil eelum and NOT for Hindutva or similiar ideology.

Many of LTTE followers are atheists.
Many in Tamilnadu are atheists.

According to a dialogue between Krishna (Vishnu) and Arjuna, the taking of one’s life andthat of another is endorsed by religious belief. Under the Hindu concept of an unchangingsoul transmigrating from life to life, death does not end life, and life does not end with death.Krishna tells Arjuna that there is no sin in taking one’s own life. So suicide and killing othersis justified by religion. Sections of the Defense authorities who are falling over each otherto build Hindu kovils would do well to realize the newest sustenance of the Tiger killers isthe Hindu atman concept. With great foresight, the LTTE is publicizing a video whichshows Black Tigers performing Visnu pujas before their departure to kill their targets andthemselves. The Christian missionaries supporting the LTTE and propogating their religionwill soon meet the reincarnation of Vishnu, in the Wanni and the East
DEPARTMENT OF CLASSICS AND RELIGION | Faculty of Arts | University of Calgary

This is a classic example of selective interpretation of Bhagwad-Gita!!

First of all my simple question to Calgary University-- show me a verse where Lord Krishna commands Arjuna specifically that suicide is justified or taking one’s own life.
At least I don’t know any such interpretation.

Further regarding justification of war…yess it’s 100% true that Lord Krishna commands Arjuna to fight a war.

probably university of Calgary needs to know a lot more how the war started and in which circumstances Lord Krishna revealed Bhagwad-Gita.

Just in brief…Pandavas were first denied their state, as a last step to avoid war when they begged for just five villages–that also they were denied. Hence the war became the only means.

Now coming back to BhagwadGita and the verses…

Before interpreting one should know the scene, the circumstances, the characters and conditions in determining the reasons for revealation of BhagwadGita.

The scene is a battlefield of Krukshetra and witnesses are millions of soldiers and their commanders.

The circumstance of revealation of Gita is a war and reason was the attachment of Arjuna with his own kinsman and family members and his fear of loosing the near and dear ones.

The Chapter no.2 of Gita reveals the “eternal reality of soul’s immorality” but definately it does not command that you can achieve Immorality by just killing others or blowing yourself-up…at least that’s my understanding.

Who brought India into it?

I brought up India into it because majority of Indians are Hindus and South India has Hindu Mathas of Sankaracharyas, but LTTE neither have sympathy from Right wing Hindus nor do they have sympathy from Mathas of Sankarachryas beacuse their fight is not for the cause of Hindutva as simple as that.

[mercenary2k]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

Where the heck are the Tamils getting planes to bomb Sri Lanka?

[Matrubhoomi]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

Where the heck are the Tamils getting planes to bomb Sri Lanka?

Probably from Chinese intelligence plus ISI.

The only countries which can benefit by complicating India's southern bordering country is China and Pakistan.

Not to mention....India's maritime bounderies are beyond Nicobar islands-- this is a big pain for China.

[ravage]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

That's not the correct characterization.

The correct characterization is --- LTTE is a politically motivated seperatist/terrorist organization of Tamil language-ethnic minorities of Sri Lanka, majority of LTTE just happen to be Hindus.

dude, perhaps you speak that way but i highly doubt you'll find anyone else describing it like that. Tamil tigers are widely described as Tamils, not Tamil language-ethnic minorities of Sri Lanka. Likewise they can be described as Hindu without adding the "just happen to be" in between.

[quote]

Agree, except the bold......becuase while by Hindu terrorists if you mean only composition and NOT ideology....then definately by any logic you have to put the sentence like I said before ---- Majority of them happen to be Hindus.

[/quote]

why do you have to put "majority of them happen to be" before Hindus? does anyone say "majority of them happen to speak" French people of France? Or "majority of them happen to be" short batsmen of Bangladesh?

To be logically correct, you merely have to intend to use Hindu to connote composition (although as the reference suggests, it might also be ideology) to say Hindu militants and it is FINE. It may also be correct that "a majority of them happen to be Hindus" but one truth does not exclude another.

[quote]

How come you can refer an organization as a religious group (Hindu) but at the same time the movement is not for protection/propagation of religion/religious ideology.

[/quote]

I already gave you many examples of groups referred to by their religion but they do no exist for the propagation of that religion. Algeria is a Muslim country. Morocco is a Muslim country. Fatah is a Muslim (but not Islamist) organization. None of these groups have the stated aim of propogation of Islam, but nobody says Fatah is a group "that happens to be" Muslim. Fatah is a Muslim group.

[quote]

They are Tamils first and Hindus later.....reason for their Unity is NOT Hinduism but the language Tamil.

[/quote]

I thought they werent "Tamils" they were "politically motivated seperatist/terrorist organization of Tamil language-ethnic minorities of Sri Lanka"? See how you condense it to Tamils when it suits you? Suppose there is a Tamil who doesnt like the LTTE or disagrees completely with your ideology (as you said many exist in India, im sure one or two must in Sri Lanka too), would he be right to quarrel with you right now?

[quote]

The person blowing himself up from LTTE can be a majority Hindu, a Christian and an Atheist....but definately all of them are Tamil and blowing themselves-up for the cause of seperate Tamil eelum and NOT for Hindutva or similiar ideology.

Many of LTTE followers are atheists.
Many in Tamilnadu are atheists.

[/quote]

Sure. Many Fatah soldiers are also Christians. Many Hezbollah soldiers are also Christians. Many people in Algeria are Christians. Are all these no longer Muslim organizations/countries then?

[quote]

This is a classic example of selective interpretation of Bhagwad-Gita!!

First of all my simple question to Calgary University-- show me a verse where Lord Krishna commands Arjuna specifically that suicide is justified or taking one's own life.
At least I don't know any such interpretation.

Further regarding justification of war....yess it's 100% true that Lord Krishna commands Arjuna to fight a war.

probably university of Calgary needs to know a lot more how the war started and in which circumstances Lord Krishna revealed Bhagwad-Gita.

Just in brief...Pandavas were first denied their state, as a last step to avoid war when they begged for just five villages--that also they were denied. Hence the war became the only means.

Now coming back to BhagwadGita and the verses...

Before interpreting one should know the scene, the circumstances, the characters and conditions in determining the reasons for revealation of BhagwadGita.

The scene is a battlefield of Krukshetra and witnesses are millions of soldiers and their commanders.

The circumstance of revealation of Gita is a war and reason was the attachment of Arjuna with his own kinsman and family members and his fear of loosing the near and dear ones.

The Chapter no.2 of Gita reveals the "eternal reality of soul's immorality" but definately it does not command that you can achieve Immorality by just killing others or blowing yourself-up.....at least that's my understanding.

[/quote]

There are ALWAYS differences in interpretations. There are ALWAYS people in any religious group who can take teachings and use them for their aims, whether those are war or peace.

Dont Muslims exist who deny that the violent interpretations of Al-Qaida? Does that mean that those violent interpretations are not used?

These are NOT the views of people from UCalgary. It is citing reports of Tamil Tigers using Hinduism for propaganda and motivation. You may disagree with their interpretations but that doesnt change the fact that those interpretations are being used to further the militancy. Thereby your claim here..

[quote]
I have never heard a news where Tamil tigers are recruited giving them lectures of Vedanta or stories of Puranas.......already told it is impossible to invent an ideology similiar to Ummah or equivalent---it never exists in Dharma.

[/quote]

... is completely debunked. Atleast now you know that Tamil Tigers do infact recruit with propaganda videos based on Hindu traditions.

[quote]

I brought up India into it because majority of Indians are Hindus and South India has Hindu Mathas of Sankaracharyas, but LTTE neither have sympathy from Right wing Hindus nor do they have sympathy from Mathas of Sankarachryas beacuse their fight is not for the cause of Hindutva as simple as that.
[/QUOTE]

I dont know much about Indian internal politics or who/what Mathas is, so cant really take you up on that. But every country is different. Pakistanies are Muslims and by and large dont approve of the work of (Muslim) Algerian seperatists.

[Amorphous]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

Probably from Chinese intelligence plus ISI.

The only countries which can benefit by complicating India's southern bordering country is China and Pakistan.

Not to mention....India's maritime bounderies are beyond Nicobar islands-- this is a big pain for China.

FYI, Pakistan has been very supportive of Sri Lanka in its war against rebels. Colombo knows that very well. China has nothing to gain either by supporting Tigers.

[Matrubhoomi]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

FYI, Pakistan has been very supportive of Sri Lanka in its war against rebels. Colombo knows that very well. China has nothing to gain either by supporting Tigers.

I was just kidding.....but you cannot say what intelligence agency do at one hand and governments show another.

[lakkis25]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

There is more chance of LTTE attacking Pakistan than India.The Thread Starter should have also provided the date and time when he wishes his Wet Dream to realize.

they are fighting for their own cause and what is the reason for them to attack india/pakistan, they killed rajiv gandhi only because he supported sri lanka

[Matrubhoomi]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

@ravage

… is completely debunked. Atleast now you know that Tamil Tigers do infact recruit with propaganda videos based on Hindu traditions.

I just gone through briefly that article from UCalgary link.

It seems the main purpose of the article is to study the inter-relation of religions from east and not the LTTE militancy and it’s history.

Although it’s not related to topic, but I am mentioning because, felt that this author looks completely pi$$ed by the fact that Western countries lacked genuine philosophies such as Vedanta and Budhhist suttas…and in one sentence the author mentioned also…The author has also very cleverly criticised a learned Yogi like Vivekananda for providing similirities between Budhhists and Hindu philosophies, but the author never analyses the philosophical interpretations of Swami Vivekananda.

Now back to thread topic…the quoted portion of this UCalgary article by yourself does mention that they have interpreted BhagwadGita, to motivate terrorists.

However, news of such incidence is not provided…they have only mentioned that they got this conclusion from an “article” in Sunday Times and not the news.

Can you provide some past specific news, showing LTTE being motivated by Hindutva ideology??

Another link provided by you of harvard university –http://www.hup.harvard.edu/pdf/BOSCON_excerpt.pdf

this has a very interesting stuff in it— it says that

the dead persons from LTTE are burried that means majority Hindus are burried alongside with minority Christians, probably to show solidarity.
It also says it defies Hindu customs of cremation.

One should note that a dead Hindu is not burried, but in case of LTTE it’s happening.

One of the most important aspects in Hinduism is the cremation of dead body as per Hindu rites proper “Dah Sanskar” is a must for the peace of soul.

Since LTTE is burrying the dead bodies of their Hindu fighters—how come they are not adhering to Hinduism here.

This clearly shows their movement is anything but Hindutva.

[samirh]

Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

"Hitler got defeated when he invaded the Soviet Union. 90% of its entire military was destroyed against the Soviet Union."

Germans defeated Russia in WW1. In WW2, it was Stalin and attack on Stalingrad that made the difference.

Most of world's oil supply was under the UK or French control, so after waging war on both, Hitler had no choice but to try and access it at Russia's Caspian Sea region.

[ravage]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

@Matrubhoomi

I just gone through briefly that article from UCalgary link.

It seems the main purpose of the article is to study the inter-relation of religions from east and not the LTTE militancy and it’s history.

Although it’s not related to topic, but I am mentioning because, felt that this author looks completely pi$$ed by the fact that Western countries lacked genuine philosophies such as Vedanta and Budhhist suttas…and in one sentence the author mentioned also…The author has also very cleverly criticised a learned Yogi like Vivekananda for providing similirities between Budhhists and Hindu philosophies, but the author never analyses the philosophical interpretations of Swami Vivekananda.

Now back to thread topic…the quoted portion of this UCalgary article by yourself does mention that they have interpreted BhagwadGita, to motivate terrorists.

However, news of such incidence is not provided…they have only mentioned that they got this conclusion from an “article” in Sunday Times and not the news.

Can you provide some past specific news, showing LTTE being motivated by Hindutva ideology??

So your disputing the sources offered for no good reason. I could see if there was something specifically biased about the author, but he seems to be a respected chair of Buddhist studies at a prominent University, a position you rarely would rise to if your so opposed to Indic philosophies that you make things up.

Anyway I did a quick google and found another instance of the Hindu foundations of Tamil tigers, here:

rediff.com US edition: LTTE using temple for fundraising

Recruitment and funds been generated from a prominent temple.

Here is an article (from a sinhalese propaganda site although) about roots of LTTE in SA, and they too cite Hindu temples as the origin.

http://www.sinhaya.com/SA_Connection.htm

Bottom line is there is sufficient grounds to suggest some religious motivation. That though was never the crux of my argument. I was arguing along the lines of composition, an aspect you completely left out.

Another link provided by you of harvard university –http://www.hup.harvard.edu/pdf/BOSCON_excerpt.pdf

this has a very interesting stuff in it— it says that

the dead persons from LTTE are burried that means majority Hindus are burried alongside with minority Christians, probably to show solidarity.
It also says it defies Hindu customs of cremation.

One should note that a dead Hindu is not burried, but in case of LTTE it’s happening.

One of the most important aspects in Hinduism is the cremation of dead body as per Hindu rites proper “Dah Sanskar” is a must for the peace of soul.

Since LTTE is burrying the dead bodies of their Hindu fighters—how come they are not adhering to Hinduism here.

This clearly shows their movement is anything but Hindutva.

Just cause they dont follow one edict of Hinduism? Perhaps not according to your interpretation, but clearly since it is noteworthy that they are foregoing “A” ritual for pragmatic/motivational/unity reasons it follows that they observe the rest. Since the harvard article explicitly states that a large majority is Hindu, you cant really dispute the label of Hindu terrorist on compositional grounds.

[vineshvk]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

@ravage

So your disputing the sources offered for no good reason. I could see if there was something specifically biased about the author, but he seems to be a respected chair of Buddhist studies at a prominent University, a position you rarely would rise to if your so opposed to Indic philosophies that you make things up.

Anyway I did a quick google and found another instance of the Hindu foundations of Tamil tigers, here:

http://www.rediff.com/us/2001/sep/08can.htm

Recruitment and funds been generated from a prominent temple.

Here is an article (from a sinhalese propaganda site although) about roots of LTTE in SA, and they too cite Hindu temples as the origin.

http://www.sinhaya.com/SA_Connection.htm

Bottom line is there is sufficient grounds to suggest some religious motivation. That though was never the crux of my argument. I was arguing along the lines of composition, an aspect you completely left out.

Just cause they dont follow one edict of Hinduism? Perhaps not according to your interpretation, but clearly since it is noteworthy that they are foregoing “A” ritual for pragmatic/motivational/unity reasons it follows that they observe the rest. Since the harvard article explicitly states that a large majority is Hindu, you cant really dispute the label of Hindu terrorist on compositional grounds.

honestly ravage ur rantings doesnt make sense. In order to prove ur theory of ltte being a hindu terrorist group, you bring up all kinds of little toothpicks.
Few questions to you

1. are they motivated by religious bias.
2. are they fighting for religious autocracy.
3. are they any where in the main stream media that tamil tigers considered as hindu terrorist organisation
   Just because ravage or few pakistanies say then we should all believe it right
   Here few links for you.
   http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1112887194
   LTTE And Churches Protect Each Other
   Posted April 7, 2005
   Asian Tribune
   2005-03-28

The history of LTTE reveals a discernible pattern in its relations with religious institutions: it has ruthlessly attacked and killed Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists but hardly ever touched Christians. It has never confronted the Churches the way it has taken on the other three main religionists…

http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items04/220704-1.html
The Current Situation
Sri Lanka is now placed in a critical situation. It is faced with two threats, one from the LTTE and the other from a resurgent Christianity. Actually even the LTTE threat is a Christian threat not only because most of the LTTE leaders are Christians but also because of the support they receive from Jesuhelas like the Christian clerics and bishops.

[ravage]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

dude if youre trying to prove that tamil tigers are a Christian organization, good luck. toothpicks or not my points remain unrebutted. you ask me to post links from mainstream media, compare ucalgary, harvard, rediff to lankaweb and christianaggression.org.

[infiniti]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

When a Hindu man blows himself up, explain to me how it isnt correct to call him a Hindu militant.

HAHAHA, you know what, a christian terrorist killed 30 odd people in a university in Virginia last month. And yesterday a christian had intercourse with his girlfriend. And today a christian might be breaking the road rules.

[ravage]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

sure. just as correct as putting say turkish before each of those.

[infiniti]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

sure. just as correct as putting say turkish before each of those.

Exactly, If you are so smart to get my drift, then why dont rise above your stupid mindset and acknowledge the reality. It can only help you :).

[ravage]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

i've been saying all along that it is "a" valid characterization. it is factually correct, even if the association seems unfair to you, which im now beginning to find is not that unfair after all, given the association of tamli recruitment abroad with Hindu temples and propaganda videos seeped in Hindu mythology.

[ssingh]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

...LTTE is a hindu dominated terrorist organization just like other islam related organizations. The only difference the formers fight is not related to any religion and latters fight is for islam(usually).:)

[ravage]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

great, so we are now coming round to "hindu dominated" from "who just happen to be Hindus". whichever way you say it is fine by me. not interested in figuring out differences from similar muslim groups, was never my intent in this thread.

[infiniti]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

i've been saying all along that it is "a" valid characterization. it is factually correct, even if the association seems unfair to you, which im now beginning to find is not that unfair after all, given the association of tamli recruitment abroad with Hindu temples and propaganda videos seeped in Hindu mythology.

All right, you win. An Indian is just outwitted by a Pakistani.

[ssingh]

Re: Tamil Tigers to launch air strikes on Hindustan

My earlier post was the first post here and that was exactly about what you guys were arguing to prove or beating around the bush. and what i said is a fact also.