Talking to Land Lord

Lifestyle Relationships
1

My husband and I are renting our house from a Jordanian guy (who is in his mid 30’s) and his wife (never met her). We’ve been in this house for a year and think we’re the ideal renters because we take care of it as if it was our own, keep it immaculately clean (inside & outside) and do all the maintenance that typically a landlord does. Anytime anything needs to be done, the land lord doesn’t even need to come, we just call the service company he has chosen, make an appointment, stay home from work and get the issue fixed, pay the guy, and deduct from rent.

Yesterday evening, I started to clean out our yard (raking out the leaf remnants that blew over from neighbors, digging out the weeds, cutting down the over grown shrubs, mulching, etc. Boy am I sore today! Seeing me out there, our neighbor came out and we both hung out talking and working for hours! It was fun and I always enjoy getting to know and forming friendships with my neighbors.

Turns out that their landlord decreased their rent by $300/month if they would take care of the yard. Our Landlord originally said that our rent included yard maintenance but he has never done anything. When we first moved in and our front yard started looking like a jungle, he reminded us to cut the mess (shoots growing from the tree roots) down. And then he told us to buy a lawn mover and a leaf vac to take care of the grass and leaves, which we ended up doing. I figured that regardless of where we lived, we’d need these things eventually so we bought them and we keep the yard looking nice. But now my husband wants to do major yard upgrades which from my previous experience know that it will cost at least $1500 for supplies alone. After finding out that my neighbor’s landlord is paying them to maintain the yard, I think it would be fair for our landlord to at least pay for the supplies and we’d be happy to do the manual labor for free.

My husband would rather just put in our own $ for the yard upgrades. Last year, he wouldn’t even remind the landlord that the landlord said yard maintenance was included in the rent. So after I told him that our neighbors pay $400 less than we do, they have a full bath in the lower level (walkout basement) and an extra bedroom, and their house was fully renovated before they moved in, he said that I could talk to the Landlord if I wanted.

I would be happy to talk with the landlord but would love some advice on how to word the in-person conversation this coming weekend so that the landlord realizes that he is lucky to have us as tenants and that him paying for the supplies is fair as he will reap the benefits of a nice yard (increase in property value, easier time finding next set of tenants, etc).

Suggestions would be most appreciated! Thank you.

2

Re: Talking to Land Lord

do you have a written lease? how long have you been there? how long do you plan to stay?
is the yard work addressed in there?
I typically make sure to include the terms of the agreement in the lease so that everybody is clear.
make sure you check that first so that you have something to fall back on.

typically if the landlord is already taking advantage of your generous nature then he will simply say, "I'm not interested in upgrading anything, so I'm not keen to contribute."

if you show him that doing the work will upgrade the value of the home then he might be more inclined.....

3

Re: Talking to Land Lord

Muzna hit all the points I wanted to say, but as a Realtor who does alot of residential leasing and property management here's my $.02..

Your written lease is your best friend. You have to go by what is written out/addressed in the lease word for word. Does it specifically state what the landlord says they will take care of as far as yard maintenance goes? At what frequency? Does it address any reimbursable costs?

I suspect that your landlord is comfy having awesome tenants who are only raising his property value. Your best course of action is approaching him with the lease terms, pointing out his benefits, and requesting him to adjust your rent in accordance with comparables (your neighbors). Be prepared for him to say no, and if that's the case, I'd weigh weather it's worth if for you to keep pouring in your own money towards someone else's equity. That's the biggest connundrum tenants face.

4

Re: Talking to Land Lord

yeah....it really depends on what your own long-term goals are.
if you are planning to stay for a few years in the same property then perhaps you can warrant the upgrades but otherwise, why bother? perhaps there are alternatives to the upgrades that you are planning that can be moved to your new location with you?

exactly what upgrades are you planning on doing?

5

Re: Talking to Land Lord

^ great advise, i live in a rented house too and i know how much of a pain it can be to want to do stuff but the thought of forking money out on a property thats not ours is equally painful :bummer:

6

Re: Talking to Land Lord

Unfortunately, the lease sucks big time. He talked about a lot of stuff (yard work, replacing the kitchen cabinets which don't shut, and replacing the old window that don't open (safety hazard!)) but hasn't really kept his word :(

Our Lease Term: 3 years (Lived 1 year & 2 more to go)

Most of the stuff was not written in lease and I wanted to list it out in the lease the things we had agreed verbally but my husband didn't want to jeopardize us from getting the place. The landlord had open house on a Wednesday and he planned on a final decision by Saturday. However, he just kept asking us so much stuff that he didn't decide to go with us until a month later. He asked us for bank statements, w2's (yearly income statement) for last 5 years, taxes for last 5 years, and statements of other assets, passports, birth certificates, drivers licences along with the rental application. He also ran a credit check on us, which is normal but wanted paperwork proving all of our assets. He also wanted a multi-year lease (3-5 years) and we cannot break the lease without paying 2 months rent and lose our 2 month deposit, total 4 months rent.

We pay more than his mortgage (if he hasn't paid it off yet) but I don't think we should pay for his landscaping upgrades. Personally, I don't mind all the yard work as I love to garden & outdoors work and don't mind paying for some of the garden supplies as it is for my own pleasure but we pay $500 more per month than our next door neighbors who have a nicer place so I don't think we should spend money on making permanent changes.

I've been the one who has been cutting the old shrubs down and my Mom & I cut down some branches of a tree (which he had promised to do but didn't) last year that were overshadowing the deck. My neighbor said that she'll have her landlord remove the old bushes in her backyard and that is when I realized that we are going above and beyond what we should be doing.

So nothing in lease about any of the things he has promised :(

7

Re: Talking to Land Lord

Personally, I agree with you about buying things that can be moved. My husband wants beautiful landscaping which means building beds where there are just huge roots from the trees and nothing can be planted now but I want to make beds for a vegetable garden. We both have different landscaping goals and of course different spending habits :)

We have little space that gets good sunlight and the current beds are completely dilapidated. The front gets sunlight but can't vegetable garden in the front. The back is very shadowy and has big ugly old bushes in the spot where sun comes through the trees.

Last year, I had a container garden with not any success :( and I've been dying to have a vegetable garden for the last several years and finally I have a yard to do it in. Container gardens require daily watering. And if you plant your plants in the ground, you can go away for a few days without the plants dying out of dehydration.

I think we have 3 choices:

  1. Clean out the weeds and keep the place manicured. Plant perennials (Tulips, Daffodils, Irises, Mums, etc) I can get from Mom for free. It'll look nice but not as superb as if we spend good amount of money. Investment - manual labor
  2. Lay down inexpensive top soil & mulch, inexpensive ground cover instead of new lawn, logs for bed edging, and plant perennials from Mom. Among the flowers, hide some herbs or vegetable plants that have pretty flowers and/or easily disguised (e.g. red Swiss chard) Investment - manual labor, $500 ?
  3. Go all out and buy the expensive stone, good soil, and nice plants so that I can plant what I want . Have the old bushes in the back pulled out, build up the bed in the front so that things can be planted. Investment - manual labor, Lots of $
8

Re: Talking to Land Lord

that's rough to not have documented stuff in the lease at the right time.
technically he can deny everything that he promised.
he won't look very good but he can.

I would suggest that you draft a very cordial and complimentary email to your landlord so that the communication becomes documented.

Let him know that you've been busy and you didn't want to bother him with trivial matters that he had originally promised but since you are committed to remaining in the property for the long-run and since you are "house-proud" people that take pride in their home and lifestyle, you would like to improve certain aspects of the garden/landscape.

Describe the upgrades that you want to make and the costs associated. List the materials and labour separately. Then say that you would be willing to put in the effort yourself if he is willing to pay for the materials. (You may also want to offer two different scenarios rather than just one. This will make him feel like he is making the ultimate decision and the matter is still in his control.) Gently mention all the yard work that you have done and that once these upgrades are completed, it will become easier for him to do maintenance on the yard as well as increase the value of his home.

End the letter in a friendly way and add a p.s. asking him when would be a convenient time for him to come by and change the kitchen cabinets and replace the windows that don't work.

This will be a way for you to address the current needs and also loop in the work that was originally promised.

9

Thank you Muzna. Really appreciate your advice.

I'm going to look at my running list of things that need to be done and see where this weighs as a priority. Just realized that perhaps electrical issues, windows, and door and window screens may be higher priority than landscaping. However, I am leaning towards option 2 and perhaps we should inform him of all the things we have done (Power washing the brick to remove moss & black mold, ant problem, rodent problem, etc.) and the $ we are spending/have spent, when we do request the electrical issues, screens, and windows be fixed.

10

Re: Talking to Land Lord

You should do some research about the law regarding the responsibilities of a landlord in your state. I'm not an expert at this and it's been years since I rented....but from what I remember, it is the landlord's responsibility to make sure that the property is safe and meets certain requirements. Just because you signed a contract, that doesn't mean that you have to live in a places with mold, ants, rodents, electrical issues etc. OR pay to fix them yourself.

11

Re: Talking to Land Lord

Paheli is right.
You need to be informed before you take things to him.
And another way to present the expenses that you have undertaken is to send a letter with copies of the receipts (you must have purchased materials or services) saying here is documentation that we're sure he would like to have for his files for warranty purposes and should we expect reimbursement separately or would he prefer that we deduct the expense from the coming month's rent?

As long as you say things the right way, you can refer back to any conversation and address any matter.

12

Thank you ladies...Oh Gosh, I think the house is habitable... But I also need to read up on what living conditions are acceptable. We have never rented from an individual therefore we're not used to negotiating with a person on what home repairs needs to be done. My husband is a very generous person and is more concerned about convenience rather than saving money so he always finds the landlord's requests reasonable and thinks that I am the crazy one to ask the landlord to do anything.

Not sure if it was black mold, it was black on the bricks outside, which the HOA wrote up about power washing the brick and he asked us to do that. It could be moss, but it was black. I am a bit concerned about the electrical issues. At first it was just a nuisance that certain outlets were not working, out bedroom overhead light, and fan were not working but as we spend more time in the house, we discover more new problems.

The landlord was quite nonchalant about the Rodent. which made me feel as if I was being whiney. I just wanted to leave (find another place to live but that is not an easy task) but God Bless my Hubby, he cleaned up the mess and took care of everything.

We initially had the ant issue last spring and it has resurfaced again. Seems to be a spring issue and there are openings that the stupid ants are coming back again. This ant issue is common as one of my neighbors had the same issue in the spring.

13

Re: Talking to Land Lord

There is a saying in the legal profession that a verbal contract is worth only as much as the piece of paper it is written on. Meaning, the verbal agreements are pretty much useless.

You need to renegotiate your lease with your landlord and have it in writing.

14

Re: Talking to Land Lord

Peony -

Your opinion on whether or not the house is habitable versus what the legal requirements are for tenants to be able to live in a house are different. And repairs on a rental property is the responsiblity of the landlord UNLESS the damage was done by you. It’s silly to even negotiate this.

If HOA expects the outside to be powerwashed, then it’s HIS responsiblity to do so unless is it actually written in your lease that you will take care of it. If lights, fan etc. are not working, it is HIS responsiblity to make sure to get those things fixed unless written otherwise in your lease. And I can’t imagine rodents being “ok” at ANY rental property regardless of what state you live in.

I have no idea why your husband and you are putting up with this crap. Furthermore, I have no idea why you’d even consider putting your own money into a rental property. :confused: Why not buy a house or if money is an issue, save every penny (instead of spending it on a rental property) and plan on buying a house.

You do have rights as a renter and if the landlord is not willing to make necessary repairs to a rental property and take care of health issues such as rodents…then I’m sure there are steps you can take to break the lease and move on (going back to you doing some research into the laws of your state). But if you and your hubby don’t want to deal with the hassle of moving and want to continue being generous for whatever reason (ie. thinking with your emotions rather than your brain)…then that’s another issue. You guys are allowing the landlord to take advantage of you. He’s a smart man. He got you guys to sign a lease without putting any of his promises in writing and is managing to manipulate you into taking care of HIS responsibilities.

I don’t think it’ll hurt to send the landlord a letter as Muzna suggested. I hope I’m wrong but from what you’ve written so far about this guy…I would be shocked if he agrees to change anything (especially lowering the rent part).

15

Re: Talking to Land Lord

oh trust me....the rent will not be lowered.
the trick will be to get the rest of the stuff reimbursed, fixed and paid for.

16

Re: Talking to Land Lord

He didn't fix the little toilet flushing mechanism when we moved in which is probably a $5 thing so I doubt he will replace windows (against fire hazard standards) and electrical issues. For the rodent, he told us that we were most likely at fault for not keeping the house clean (He doesn't know how anal I am about cleanliness) and to buy some mouse traps and use peanut butter to catch it. yuck. I didn't want chemicals sprayed so my hubby did exactly what the Landlord said. We never did catch the damn thing. I think it went away because we removed all snacks that were in the pantry and put them in glass containers so no food was readily available.

The reason we try to be cooperative is that I don't landlord coming to our house when we're not home and we may have to break the lease. There has been talk for the last year (as soon as we signed a nice long lease) that new living arrangements may be needed for my in-laws who live in the house we own. I realized that eventually in-laws will move-out of our house or we will have to move back in to care for them so here we are living in a rental property doing everything for it because we may have to break the lease and landlord* said that we could break the lease if we have extenuating circumstances. So we've been *overly cooperative so that he doesn't penalize us with 4 month rent due to things that are out of our hands (in-law illness or death).

17

Re: Talking to Land Lord

Yes. Will look up legal requirements for my state.

Lowering the rent wasn’t even part of the agenda. It would be nice though :slight_smile: but I just want things fixed. My husband just didn’t know that a landlord is responsible for anything and found some of the advice here very useful and said that we should talk to the landlord this weekend.

18

Re: Talking to Land Lord

Peony,

If the conditions for breaking the lease have already been laid out in the lease why are you expecting that he will not hold you to them?

It’s pretty obvious that the man does not stick to his word…not even on some simple things like fixing the flush in the toilet…so what makes you think that he would pass up collecting 4 months of rent if he could?

Unless you can provide other documented evidence to suggest that he is willing to let the penalty go, I’m afraid that no amount of being “cooperative” or “nice” will keep this man from his money. Particularly when its written into the contract.

just as a joke…you know why arabs roam the desert don’t you?
apparently someone dropped a quarter… :cb: